kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, aGENT said: Their 'philosophy' or 'plan' hasn't changed, circumstances have. Circumstances which are reflected in the evolution of moves made. If it didn't, they would have traded Burrows and Hansen for 23-24 year-old retreads that failed on other teams instead of younger prospects with real/untapped potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: If it didn't, they would have traded Burrows and Hansen for 23-24 year-old retreads that failed on other teams instead of younger prospects with real/untapped potential. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 35 minutes ago, aGENT said: Why? Why what? They made certain types of trades in the first 2.5 years, realized that sucked, and then made different types of trades after that. It had nothing to do with the team's circumstances. It had more to do with they were going to get fired real soon if they didn't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, kanucks25 said: Why what? They made certain types of trades in the first 2.5 years, realized that sucked circumstance changed, and then made different types of trades after that. And FYI, they're still making those types of trades: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, kanucks25 said: Why what? They made certain types of trades in the first 2.5 years, realized that sucked, and then made different types of trades after that. Again, no Baertschi save for injuries worked out well. And Granlund for a creer AHLer has worked out. For the 100th time, they filled the age gap he planned to fill and those moves were no longer necessary... I do Granlund for Shinkaruk 100/100 to say otherwise is completely moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Why what? Why would they: 9 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: If it didn't, they would have traded Burrows and Hansen for 23-24 year-old retreads that failed on other teams instead of younger prospects with real/untapped potential. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, aGENT said: And FYI, they're still making those types of trades: Leivo I like Leivo, it was a great trade. It's just not the same as we didn't give up a pick or prospect of quality like we did for Gudbranson or Vey or Clendening or whatever else we could have gotten for Kesler instead of what we targeted, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 39 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Again, no Baertschi save for injuries worked out well. And Granlund for a creer AHLer has worked out. For the 100th time, they filled the age gap he planned to fill and those moves were no longer necessary... I do Granlund for Shinkaruk 100/100 to say otherwise is completely moronic. Baertschi and Granlund are enough to outweigh the aggregate of what was sent out with those trades. People really need to stop touting the Granlunds and Mottes as good players or successes, it's an absolute joke to be honest. These are players that wouldn't step foot on the ice for a real team. (not saying a career AHLer for a borderline NHLer is a bad trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: I like Leivo, it was a great trade. It's just not the same as we didn't give up a pick or prospect of quality like we did for Gudbranson or Vey or Clendening or whatever else we could have gotten for Kesler instead of what we targeted, etc. What much more could we have gotten for Kesler? He provided a one team list dude. If you’re gonna point the finger at anyone point it at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Baertschi and Granlund are enough to outweigh the aggregate of what was sent out with those trades. People really need to stop touting the Granlunds and Mottes as good players or successes, it's an absolute joke to be honest. These are players that wouldn't step foot on the ice for a real team. Motte is a great 4th liner, you need great 4th liners to be competitive. And to get him for a rental like Vanek is a clear win. You definitely undervalue him and your take on Motte is laughable at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 34 minutes ago, Pears said: What much more could we have gotten for Kesler? He provided a one team list dude. If you’re gonna point the finger at anyone point it at him. Bonino was targeted as someone who could help the team now, stepping in for Kesler. Then they quickly decided he wasn't a fit downgraded a pick to trade him off for a worse player in return. Benning said himself that he saw Sbisa as a future top-4 D-man. Both players and their "ages" fell in place with what management was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 36 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Motte is a great 4th liner, you need great 4th liners to be competitive. And to get him for a rental like Vanek is a clear win. You definitely undervalue him and your take on Motte is laughable at best. Zero evidence that Motte is a good player, zero. I'd love for you to show me some. Creates some random chances here and there but those are totally outweighed by how much of a liability he is defensively. Skates hard and fast and accomplishes little, tricks people who don't know what they're looking for into thinking he's effective with said skating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Bonino was targeted as someone who could help the team now, stepping in for Kesler. Then they quickly decided he wasn't a fit downgraded a pick to trade him off for a worse player in return. Benning said himself that he saw Sbisa as a future top-4 D-man. Both players and their "ages" fell in place with what management was looking for. Still zero evidence we could have got more for Kesler as Kesler killed his value by limiting his move to 1 team. No bidding war = less value it's not that hard to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Zero evidence that Motte is a good player, zero. I'd love for you to show me some. Creates some random chances here and there but those are totally outweighed by how much of a liability he is defensively. Skates hard and fast and accomplishes little, tricks people who don't know what they're looking for into thinking he's effective. Like I said laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: I like Leivo, it was a great trade. It's just not the same as we didn't give up a pick or prospect of quality like we did for Gudbranson or Vey or Clendening or whatever else we could have gotten for Kesler instead of what we targeted, etc. So because of cherry picking and hindsight it's different If Vey works out, he could very well be a 45+/- point winger for us right now and likely would have negated us needing to sign a stop gap in Gagner. You win some, you lose some. Gudbranson was a good move (evidenced by his perfectly solid play since arriving in PIT). Not doing other moves to put him in a position to succeed was the problem. By all means, critique management on that. Kesler gave Benning one team to work with...bruh...come on. That he got the value he did was a small miracle. Either way, it's clear they're still open to the same types of moves they did the first 2.5 years despite now making 'different types of trades'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 35 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Like I said laughable. What's actually laughable is that you can provide no evidence to the contrary and instead reply with what you just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Still zero evidence we could have got more for Kesler as Kesler killed his value by limiting his move to 1 team. No bidding war = less value it's not that hard to figure out. Also no evidence that Kesler wouldn't have expanded his list given the right motivation by the management. Also no evidence that Benning didn't get a bad return because of his hands were tied, but because he was out-negotiated. You're living in a world in which you believe everything Benning does is the right move and there were no better alternatives. I am not that naive and I have higher expectations of our management, as we all should as a passionate, educated, loyal, strong fan-base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Shift-4 said: 1970 A true expansion team (unlike alot of the players Vegas was able to pluck for free from the expansion draft, etc.,). They missed the playoffs the first four seasons of their existance (going thru serious ownership issues in addition to the usual hills an expansion team generally has to overcome. Finally made the playoffs in their fifth season (and actually won their division). Made the playoffs the following season as well, and then the wheel's fell off (couldn't really compete with some of the free spending teams - no cap back then - and management was meh at best). This will be season 4 of no playoffs for us baring some miracle....though they key is to continually make the post-season rather than just a "one off". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 40 minutes ago, aGENT said: So because of cherry picking and hindsight it's different It's not hindsight when people crapped on the Vey trade, or the Kesler trade or the Gudbranson trade from day 1. That's knowing right away, that's not hindsight. What cherry-picking? If Benning traded a career AHLer for a good young NHLer in 2014 I wouldn't have had any problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: It's not hindsight when people crapped on the Vey trade, or the Kesler trade or the Gudbranson trade from day 1. That's knowing right away, that's not hindsight. What cherry-picking? If Benning traded a career AHLer for a good young NHLer in 2014 I wouldn't have had any problem with that. Well good for you guys for having the foresight to know exactly how Vey would turn out. You know about his dad's plans to attempt to murder his mom too? Probably should have let Jim know about that. Wonder how many were the same people that crapped on him for drafting Pettersson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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