[PGT] New York Rangers at Vancouver Canucks | Mar. 13, 2019

[oldnews]

5 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

And just think how good Boston would be if they had gone with Barzal and Connor instead of Senyshyn and Zboril. Even with what those here would call major misses, they're a legit contender.  

Yeah - they did have the luxury of being able to flip some younger players than Van had - Boston's core was younger when they won, and guys like Lucic, Hamilton, Jones brought them some nice retool moves/futures that they somewhat capitalized on, although they did still have some serious near misses as you point out.

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

The NHL has always had young stars who come in and change the game, it's not a new phenomenon.  In fact, I'd say this is a time when youth are having less of an effect on the game, as a whole.

 

If there's more young players in the league, it's because they're cheaper, not better, than veterans.  

 

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-best-players-23-and-under-entering-2018-19-season/c-300470664

 

The 2018-19 NHL season opens Oct. 3 and among the many compelling storylines is the youth that has been served across the League during the past several seasons. Today, we look at 10 players, 23-and-under, who should dominate on the ice and in the headlines this season.

The youth movement in the NHL is in full bloom with a sizeable and sensational group of talented 23-and-under players dominating the game.

Many of these players are leading their teams in production and winning top awards. They're skilled, they're confident and they're difference makers.

"A lot of them are the stars of the League," Chicago Blackhawks coach Joel Quenneville said. "Whether it's young kids coming along, the way they're drafted, the way they train, the way they prepare themselves at a younger age to be ready for the NHL starting at 18, 19, these kids play a lot of hockey now at a young age. And it's different than it's been in the past because these young guys are so important to the team success."

[*Buzzsaw*]

A lot of people on this board are saying Speed and Youth are the only ways to win a Cup.

 

I would tend to agree the Canucks do need to keep speed as a key and they want to draft and develop rather than sign free agents... but size is also important... and you need some veterans.

 

Cup Winners are more often than not good sized teams and often they are largely vets... last years winners the Washington Capitals are a perfect example.  How old is that team???  And look at the size and physicality.

 

And if Washington wins again... which I would not be at all surprised to see... then everyone will be turning 90 degrees and saying how there is no substitute for grit and veteran leadership.

 

But of course, the Caps need to get past Tampa Bay.... who are also a veteran team... although not so size focused... they are built on speed and skill.  But sometimes speed and skill does not translate in the Post Season.

[riffraff]

4 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

A lot of people on this board are saying Speed and Youth are the only ways to win a Cup.

 

I would tend to agree the Canucks do need to keep speed as a key and they want to draft and develop rather than sign free agents... but size is also important... and you need some veterans.

 

Cup Winners are more often than not good sized teams and often they are largely vets... last years winners the Washington Capitals are a perfect example.  How old is that team???  And look at the size and physicality.

 

And if Washington wins again... which I would not be at all surprised to see... then everyone will be turning 90 degrees and saying how there is no substitute for grit and veteran leadership.

 

But of course, the Caps need to get past Tampa Bay.... who are also a veteran team... although not so size focused... they are built on speed and skill.  But sometimes speed and skill does not translate in the Post Season.

The Capitals are the 13th oldest team in the league at 27.5 years of age. (the NHL average is 27.1 years of age).Jan 12, 2018

 

 

 

almost middle of the road in age actually.

 

 

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

A lot of people on this board are saying Speed and Youth are the only ways to win a Cup.

 

I would tend to agree the Canucks do need to keep speed as a key and they want to draft and develop rather than sign free agents... but size is also important... and you need some veterans.

 

Cup Winners are more often than not good sized teams and often they are largely vets... last years winners the Washington Capitals are a perfect example.  How old is that team???  And look at the size and physicality.

 

And if Washington wins again... which I would not be at all surprised to see... then everyone will be turning 90 degrees and saying how there is no substitute for grit and veteran leadership.

 

But of course, the Caps need to get past Tampa Bay.... who are also a veteran team... although not so size focused... they are built on speed and skill.  But sometimes speed and skill does not translate in the Post Season.

I would argue chasing the last season’s Cup Champions is a fools game imo. Vancouver did that after the Boston series and the team lost what got them there.

 

Rather than either rebuilding as some suggested or adding to what made Vancouver a special team they tried to chase what made Boston successful but didn't have the horses to fully replicate it and fell flat on their face. 

[riffraff]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

I would argue chasing the last season’s Cup Champions is a fools game imo. Vancouver did that after the Boston series and the team lost what got them there.

 

Rather than either rebuilding as some suggested or adding to what made Vancouver a special team they tried to chase what made Boston successful but didn't have the horses to fully replicate it and fell flat on their face. 

I agree.  There is no model.  You build a deep team from the crease on out, stay healthy, get on a run....:that’s how it’s done.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Just now, riffraff said:

The Capitals are the 13th oldest team in the league at 27.5 years of age. (the NHL average is 27.1 years of age).Jan 12, 2018

 

 

 

almost middle of the road in age actually.

 

 

How old is their core???  Look at the ages of Ovie, Kuznetzov, Backstrom, Orpik, Holtby.

[gameburn]

54 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I don't think this team is anywhere near ready to 'give up' on the draft and develop approach - and don't think they will even after they become consistently more competitive.

 

I don't buy any rumour that suggests they were considering departing from that at the deadline - I see only evidence to the opposite effect and think it was relatively predictable.

 

The thing is - if you continue with a metered draft and develop approach, there's no reason to abandon it once you're rethinged your team.   That is precisely what enables teams like Detroit (in the past, when they made 20ish straight playoff appaerances) - or Boston, who many would have thought should 'rebuild' after their Cups - to remain competitive regardless.  They are good examples that steady retools can work - even if you don't those high picks in the interim....On the other hand, of course there are counterpoints/examples, - but for me, I don't think/see the team departing from their underlying process - at least I hope they don't get wooed by new-age 'team-builders'.

Benning's connection to Boston came to mind, while I was reading your remarks.  Yes, the draft and development approach can remain the core principle of a team throughout its life.   

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, riffraff said:

I agree.  There is no model.  You build a deep team from the crease on out, stay healthy, get on a run....:that’s how it’s done.

When your answer to Lucic in his prime is David Booth you should just stop right there. 

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

A lot of people on this board are saying Speed and Youth are the only ways to win a Cup.

 

I would tend to agree the Canucks do need to keep speed as a key and they want to draft and develop rather than sign free agents... but size is also important... and you need some veterans.

 

Cup Winners are more often than not good sized teams and often they are largely vets... last years winners the Washington Capitals are a perfect example.  How old is that team???  And look at the size and physicality.

 

And if Washington wins again... which I would not be at all surprised to see... then everyone will be turning 90 degrees and saying how there is no substitute for grit and veteran leadership.

 

But of course, the Caps need to get past Tampa Bay.... who are also a veteran team... although not so size focused... they are built on speed and skill.  But sometimes speed and skill does not translate in the Post Season.

look at the playoff teams, except for the Leafs, they are all teams who rely, almost completely, on vets.  The teams who have moved to a full youth movement are al on the outside looking in.

[250Integra]

2 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

How old is their core???  Look at the ages of Ovie, Kuznetzov, Backstrom, Orpik, Holtby.

But their core has one of the greatest scorers of all time, an elite centerman, a superstar winger, and a Vezina winning goaltender. They also have a franchise defenceman in Carlson as well.

[*Buzzsaw*]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

I would argue chasing the last season’s Cup Champions is a fools game imo. Vancouver did that after the Boston series and the team lost what got them there.

 

Rather than either rebuilding as some suggested or adding to what made Vancouver a special team they tried to chase what made Boston successful but didn't have the horses to fully replicate it and fell flat on their face. 

Not suggesting we chase the Caps... we don't have the same pieces... Petey is a very different player than Ovie.

 

But I do think we need to keep in mind the fact that size does matter and you do need some vets.

 

But I think the Vet angle will work itself out... as Bo and Marky will be the veteran leadership by the time this team is Cup ready.

 

I think this team is closer than many realize... if we got a couple decent size defensemen, like Tryamkin and Broberg we would be very close.

 

 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not suggesting we chase the Caps... we don't have the same pieces... Petey is a very different player than Ovie.

 

But I do think we need to keep in mind the fact that size does matter and you do need some vets.

 

But I think the Vet angle will work itself out... as Bo and Marky will be the veteran leadership by the time this team is Cup ready.

 

I think this team is closer than many realize... if we got a couple decent size defensemen, like Tryamkin and Broberg we would be very close.

 

 

This team is definitely closer than some realize not as laughably bad as @TheGuardian_‘s 7 skilled players away from being a contender. 

[shiznak]

There’s no correct formula for winning the Stanley Cup. I hate it when people say “to win in today’s NHL you need speed and skill.”. When every year it’s different from the previous year. 

 

2000: Defense wins championships.

2001-2002: Offense wins championships.

2003: Back to defense.

2004-2007: Grit and depth wins championships.

2007-2009: Speed and skills wins championships.

2009-2011: Toughness wins championships.

2012: Speed and skills wins championships.

2013: Back to toughness.

2014: Back to speed and skill.

2015-2017: Offense wins championships.

2018: Back to speed and skill.

[jackofwind]

15 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I wish I didn’t have Canucks-itis so that I could just go find a new team.

I think many people here wish that as well.

 

15 hours ago, Seinfeld said:

Pride. Right. Where's the pride been these past 4 seasons?

 

This team is composed of so much unlikable trash. I hate it.

Cheer for someone else then, no one is forcing you to be a Canucks fan.

 

14 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

You would not know good hockey till it punched you in the face! 

Sadly for some people any hockey team that doesn't want to punch more than it wants to score goals is considered a weak team that plays bad hockey.

[jackofwind]

RIP

[garthsbutcher]

9 hours ago, NHTyrany said:

I hate these kind of wins. The team gets abused at home and turns the other way. This team's heart is non-existent. Where is the team culture? Too many individualists. I wouldn't care if the coach told me to not retaliate. I would start fights or start throwing big hits anyway. For a future captain, Horvat sure comes up short in this category. Every team loves to play and punish the buttery soft Nucks. Our stars are going to be injured or demand a trade. This is ridiculous Benning. End of rant.  

Give me a team of Travis Hamonics any day. He fights Guddy knowing he was going to get killed. We are a joke around the league in terms of "team toughness', we have none!!!

You don't need to have a roster full of goons to have the right culture of what to do and who to protect. If im Petey im looking at going back to Sweden after this contract or asking for a trade to a team that protects there skilled players. This team and its lack of pushback incident after incident is very tough to watch. Im guessing Benning is on a very short leash right now re the ownership group.  Virtanen, Schaller, Beagle, Pearson, Wake the F up!!!

[DrJockitch]

34 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

A lot of people on this board are saying Speed and Youth are the only ways to win a Cup.

 

I would tend to agree the Canucks do need to keep speed as a key and they want to draft and develop rather than sign free agents... but size is also important... and you need some veterans.

 

Cup Winners are more often than not good sized teams and often they are largely vets... last years winners the Washington Capitals are a perfect example.  How old is that team???  And look at the size and physicality.

 

And if Washington wins again... which I would not be at all surprised to see... then everyone will be turning 90 degrees and saying how there is no substitute for grit and veteran leadership.

 

But of course, the Caps need to get past Tampa Bay.... who are also a veteran team... although not so size focused... they are built on speed and skill.  But sometimes speed and skill does not translate in the Post Season.

Everyone wants players that are fast, skilled tough and skilled.  You can't get all of them typically outside of a few elite players.  So you prioritize.  Some teams prioritize speed and skill but that doesn't mean they don't put a value on size.  If I am looking at players though and say I can have one to build a team philosophy around, I will take speed every time.  

Doesn't mean we can't be fast and tough.  That is why I like what Roussel and Jake bring.  

[*Buzzsaw*]

By the way...  as mentioned, I am high on Philip Broberg.

 

The highlights you saw are of a 17 year old... he is still 17 but now is 6' 3" and 203 lbs, so has grown an inch and put on 10 lbs in half a year.

 

He is really young, barely eligible for the Draft.  Birthday is June 25th.

 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/349467/philip-broberg

[Jaimito]

Gaudette look really good in this game. I think he will be a very good player in yrs to come, maybe a Kesler type guy with strong two way play, minus the agitator role.