Is Markstrom now the Elite Goalie he was always projected to be?

[wai_lai416]

14 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Not to take anything away from Luongo, but when has Marky had five legit top 4 guys in front of him, elite defensive wingers (Burrows in his prime-my opinion) and a Selke winner on his team when he was the starter?

Luongo did not have any of those the first few years he was in vancouver... he was still consistently near the top in save % despite facing one of the most shots in the league. our defense than was a past prime ohlund, salo and then a rookie edler.. with fitzergard and krajcek. i would say edler tanev hutton stetcher is superior in terms of balance and depth than those. burrows and kesler were no where near the caliber player they were in 2011 at the time

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Luongo did not have any of those the first few years he was in vancouver... he was still consistently near the top in save % despite facing one of the most shots in the league. our defense than was a past prime ohlund, salo and then a rookie edler.. with fitzergard and krajcek. i would say edler tanev hutton stetcher is superior in terms of balance and depth than those. burrows and kesler were no where near the caliber player they were in 2011 at the time

None of those guys (I’m talking 2018/19 versions of Edler, Tanev, Hutton, Stecher) are anywhere close to where Willie Mitchell was (who we DID have....another one of Gillis’s mistakes not be able to keep him around).  Guy played near the most minutes per game in the postseason on one of those Cup winning Kings teams.  Bieksa?  You failed to mention him.  Put up 40+ points in 2006/07.  Sorry but IMHO, those two sets of bluelines arent comparable.

 

Again not to take anything away from a likely HOFer Luongo but he was a vet when he was starting goalie for us (and yes, on an offensively challenged team at the beginning) but Marky wasn’t/ isn’t.  That’s the point I want to make.  You could even throw in having a NHL veteran coach (Vigneault-Jack Adams winner) vs a Sophmore Green.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

7 hours ago, lmm said:

well we had a top 4 and a top 8

maybe what you meant is we did not have a # 1 or #2

that has almost always been a problem

We almost got Scott Neidermeyer coming out of the 2005 lockout, but management couldn't figure out how to make it work

Yeah Ducks had an edge in that they already had his brother under contract.  

[IBatch]

On 4/17/2019 at 10:42 AM, iceman64 said:

Are you serious? Of course his numbers aren't elite, not in front of the worst defence in the league.  No one would have elite numbers with our D and team D as a whole. We don't need to score a whole bunch more goals, we need to stop so many against us. Expecting a goalie to bail you out every night after you hang him out to dry is ridiculous. Have a look at how many give aways and shots against us. Our D was nothing short of laughable.

Luongo was elite before he came here, facing 40-50 plus shots on a nightly basis, that was a bad defense (not that ours is great or even decent), he was routinely at or near the top of sp for goalies back then.  With his best defense he won more games but his sp still wasn’t as good as his best year in Florida before coming here (although still damn excellent).   He faced way less shots though and we won more games surprise surprise.  

 

Marstrom played great this year by his standards, but he’s far from elite and would need to put together at least another season of .920ish sp just to match an average Luongo season...his trade value could go up which would be nice and I definitely think he was our MVP this year.  

 

Theres a reason Gibson has been getting so much attention via the media, Markstrom not so much.  He’s younger, has played great hockey two years in a row now and gives his team a chance to win 2-1 games all the time.  They can’t score to save their lives yet most of the their games are one goal, well 2-1 or maybe 3-2 games.  If Demko can match that we will be in for a real treat, and Markstrom will make a good back-up or be sent packing for whatever we can get. 

 

These are just two examples of guys that would have elite numbers playing for bad teams, well because they did and are. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Luongo was elite before he came here, facing 40-50 plus shots on a nightly basis, that was a bad defense (not that ours is great or even decent), he was routinely at or near the top of sp for goalies back then.  With his best defense he won more games but his sp still wasn’t as good as his best year in Florida before coming here (although still damn excellent).   He faced way less shots though and we won more games surprise surprise.  

 

Marstrom played great this year by his standards, but he’s far from elite and would need to put together at least another season of .920ish sp just to match an average Luongo season...his trade value could go up which would be nice and I definitely think he was our MVP this year.  

 

Theres a reason Gibson has been getting so much attention via the media, Markstrom not so much.  He’s younger, has played great hockey two years in a row now and gives his team a chance to win 2-1 games all the time.  They can’t score to save their lives yet most of the their games are one goal, well 2-1 or maybe 3-2 games.  If Demko can match that we will be in for a real treat, and Markstrom will make a good back-up or be sent packing for whatever we can get. 

 

These are just two examples of guys that would have elite numbers playing for bad teams, well because they did and are. 

Yeah I should’ve added that in Luongos years in Florida, he was on teams both offensively and defensively inept.  I was only comparing the Canuck rosters at the time.  No question (at least in my mind) Luongo should be in the HHOF.

[IBatch]

19 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah I should’ve added that in Luongos years in Florida, he was on teams both offensively and defensively inept.  I was only comparing the Canuck rosters at the time.  No question (at least in my mind) Luongo should be in the HHOF.

 

One of the happiest days in my life as a Canucks fan was when we traded for him.  We didn’t have a great or bad defense at the time but Florida was just awful and this lanky Italian kid was dynamite for years by then, and always on the weekly highlights (making crazy Hasek like saves).  I thought to myself we could win a cup now, and we have a Vezina quality goalie now.  And he didn’t disappoint, that first series against Turco was arguably the best goaltending battle this team ever had, both goalies on the top of their game just dominating.  We missed the playoffs too, but I wasn’t worried, then rattled off the best years so far by our team.   Never rallied under Luongo he goat handle for not winning the cup, or that he choked.  Started the series with a SO like the other series, then we went all the way to game seven scoring what? Six goals to get there?  And two more in game seven?  

 

Hes done enough IMO to make the HHOF, since he’s joined the league he was a top goalie all but only maybe three seasons.   Heck just two years ago he had a dominant season when he played.  Gold medals as a starter and back-ups...

[NewbieCanuckFan]

17 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

One of the happiest days in my life as a Canucks fan was when we traded for him.  We didn’t have a great or bad defense at the time but Florida was just awful and this lanky Italian kid was dynamite for years by then, and always on the weekly highlights (making crazy Hasek like saves).  I thought to myself we could win a cup now, and we have a Vezina quality goalie now.  And he didn’t disappoint, that first series against Turco was arguably the best goaltending battle this team ever had, both goalies on the top of their game just dominating.  We missed the playoffs too, but I wasn’t worried, then rattled off the best years so far by our team.   Never rallied under Luongo he goat handle for not winning the cup, or that he choked.  Started the series with a SO like the other series, then we went all the way to game seven scoring what? Six goals to get there?  And two more in game seven?  

 

Hes done enough IMO to make the HHOF, since he’s joined the league he was a top goalie all but only maybe three seasons.   Heck just two years ago he had a dominant season when he played.  Gold medals as a starter and back-ups...

Here’s another thing about that playoff series against Turco  (and showed the offensive support Luongo had).  Turco had THREE friggin’ shutouts against us but we still took that series. 

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Here’s another thing about that playoff series against Turco  (and showed the offensive support Luongo had).  Turco had THREE friggin’ shutouts against us but we still took that series. 

What a great series that was! One of the best goaltending duals ever. I remember telling buddies after we were up 3-1 that it is impossible for Lui to lose 3 in a row, Turco gave it a good run!

[iceman64]

17 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

2011

Hamhuis

Edler

Salo

Bieksa

Ehrhoff

 

2012

Hamhuis

Edler

Salo

Bieksa

Tanev (rookie)

 

2013

Hamhuis

Edler

Salo

Garrison  (when he had an uninjured groan)

Tanev (sophmore)

 

I never said we had an elite blueline but in comparison to what we have now (even when fully healthy) it sure as **** looks elite.  And again, you're ignoring the strength of the forwards we had up front in terms of their defensive skills. 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

edit:  AWFUL trade Keith Ballard I excluded for obvious reasons.  Interesting trivia, Jim Benning was the guy responsible pretty much for the excellent scouting work in Buffalo many years ago but guess who drafted Ballard in the 1st round?  Buffalo (during the same period Benning did a lot of the scouting).  Weird connection eh?

Ok that's not what i said, "depth" for those years you put up, we had a decent D but where is the depth? As in when our blue line was hit hard losing to boston where eddie was out, then hamhuis, and then erhoff and salo was playing hurt. Who jumped up and played D in their stead so we could take them out? No one and that hasn't changed YET.. and that's why mr Stanley never paid us a visit against the B's 

Edited April 21, 2019 by iceman64

[lmm]

8 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Yeah Ducks had an edge in that they already had his brother under contract.  

As I recall, the Canucks were in cap trouble and could not figure out how to clear enough cap to sign the best defenseman this club never had

[NewbieCanuckFan]

6 minutes ago, lmm said:

As I recall, the Canucks were in cap trouble and could not figure out how to clear enough cap to sign the best defenseman this club never had

That too but I seem to recall also the thought of being able to play with his brother was a big factor in Scott deciding to sign with the Ducks.  Course, I'm going purely by memory and it was a long time ago.  Ducks were lucky to find a sucker for Federov (he was well past his prime) which freed up the money to offer him a good contract (great move by Burke making that trade).

 

Cap space didn't seem to bother Nonis when he signed Luongo (when he already had Cloutier under contract for around 3-4 million).....making that 10 million in cap space to goalies (back when the cap limit was FAR lower....like in the 45 to 50 million range).  You're allowed I think to go over the cap by something like 10% in the off-season so you got a LITTLE time to work things out (granted not the ideal situation).

Edited April 21, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[lmm]

59 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

That too but I seem to recall also the thought of being able to play with his brother was a big factor in Scott deciding to sign with the Ducks.  Course, I'm going purely by memory and it was a long time ago.  Ducks were lucky to find a sucker for Federov (he was well past his prime) which freed up the money to offer him a good contract (great move by Burke making that trade).

 

Cap space didn't seem to bother Nonis when he signed Luongo (when he already had Cloutier under contract for around 3-4 million).....making that 10 million in cap space to goalies (back when the cap limit was FAR lower....like in the 45 to 50 million range).  You're allowed I think to go over the cap by something like 10% in the off-season so you got a LITTLE time to work things out (granted not the ideal situation).

well lets face it, if Nonis could have put Luongo and Neidermeyer on the same team, we would have won Cups and he would likely still be Prez

[iceman64]

26 minutes ago, lmm said:

well lets face it, if Nonis could have put Luongo and Neidermeyer on the same team, we would have won Cups and he would likely still be Prez

Maybe but like what usually happens is injuries and no depth, or little anyway. 

 Was pretty appearant when we lost to chicago and boston.  Chicago was a bit different as they just parked Buffy the Louie slayer in the crease area and we had no one big enough to move him. Was a genius move by Chicago who went on to win the cup

[wai_lai416]

On 4/21/2019 at 7:21 AM, NewbieCanuckFan said:

None of those guys (I’m talking 2018/19 versions of Edler, Tanev, Hutton, Stecher) are anywhere close to where Willie Mitchell was (who we DID have....another one of Gillis’s mistakes not be able to keep him around).  Guy played near the most minutes per game in the postseason on one of those Cup winning Kings teams.  Bieksa?  You failed to mention him.  Put up 40+ points in 2006/07.  Sorry but IMHO, those two sets of bluelines arent comparable.

 

Again not to take anything away from a likely HOFer Luongo but he was a vet when he was starting goalie for us (and yes, on an offensively challenged team at the beginning) but Marky wasn’t/ isn’t.  That’s the point I want to make.  You could even throw in having a NHL veteran coach (Vigneault-Jack Adams winner) vs a Sophmore Green.

you can't say markstrom wasn't isnt a vet.. he's been in the league longer than Luongo have when he was traded to us.. albeit not a starter.. but he was in the NHL for 10 years now.. hardly new to the league. Tanev current version is close to Willie Mitchell if not better when healthy.. a stay at home defenseman that doesn't take much chances reliable defensively and blocks crazy amount of shots.. ya you can talk about Bieksa Sopel Tremblay Mciver Kracjek Edler Columbe Fitzpatrick Ohlund near the end of his career and salo.. they were taking chances left and right jumping into plays because they know Luogno would bail them out.. none of those guys are exactly known for their defense at that time lol.. they were so porus and half the guys were as usual injured we played 12 defenseman that year.