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canuckistani

[Proposal] Taking bad contracts for draft picks before the draft ?

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This year, the draft is in Vancouver. Which means we are in the best position of all the teams, to study the 2-7th round prospects and pick out hidden gems. Drafts always favor the host city in this range, since the combines happen in their facilities, they are able to summon far more of their scouts to the location, etc. due to logistical factors.

 

As such, we have some flexibility in our roster that some teams do not. The NHL requires the roster to be 23 man strong max on the first day of the new season before anyone can be put on LTIR. However, since EP, Gaudette & Hughes are waiver-exempted for the next 2,1 and 3 years respectively, it means we can take on a few bad contracts for draft picks, 'temporarily demote' one (or all) of these players to reach roster size, put the bad contract on LTIR and 'recall' them - they don't even have to leave town and its usually over in 24 hours anyways.

 

We also have plenty of cap space to pull this off for the next year or two. 

 

As such, there is Toronto, still has Horton for another year for 5+mil and hardly any roster spot left.

Detroit is also up against the cap and they have the Zetterberg contract for 2 more years and the Franzen contract for 1 more. All these contracts expire before Seattle expansion draft, so its not gonna mess with our protected list. 

So is it worth it ? 
Should we do a trade akin to To Van: Zetterberg + R2 +R3 type of deals ? Will they do it ? What do you folks think ?

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45 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

What do you folks think ?

I think you are very misled if you believe we have some sort of advantage because we're hosting the draft.   The VAST MAJORITY of the scouting is done in the days/ weeks/months leading up to the draft as teams play and finish their seasons and hit playoffs.  The only real meaningful thing to happen at the draft week is the interviews and they are all done on an equal opportunity system so there's no real advantage either.

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Not happening if it means we’d have to protect that player in the expansion draft. 

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11 minutes ago, Pears said:

Not happening if it means we’d have to protect that player in the expansion draft. 

read better next time ?

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I'd like the idea of taking on short-term bad deals that don't have NMCs, but coming up soon, we will have both Boeser and EP on big contracts, so money will become an issue in the coming years moreso, so I wouldn't want anything over 2 years.

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Toronto has no reason to not do what you just said. Temporarily demote somebody and then when the season starts, put Horton back on LTIR.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I'd like the idea of taking on short-term bad deals that don't have NMCs, but coming up soon, we will have both Boeser and EP on big contracts, so money will become an issue in the coming years moreso.

Canucks will have well over $20M in cap to do so. Anybody worried about the Canucks' cap in the next 3-4 years shouldn't be. I think if we get an offer akin to the Bickell/Teravainen deal, JB needs to take it.

Edited by Baer.

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6 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Canucks will have well over $20M in cap to do so. Anybody worried about the Canucks' cap in the next 3-4 years shouldn't be. I think if we get an offer akin to the Bickell/Teravainen deal, JB needs to take it.

I'd be down to spend a bit, but a fair bit can change if Demko and Hughes also break out. We could be looking at Boeser, Demko, Hughes, and Pettersson all making $6.5M+ in not too long--but you're right in that even that scenario doesn't likely happen for at least 2 or 3 more years.

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Just now, -AJ- said:

I'd be down to spend a bit, but a fair bit can change if Demko and Hughes also break out. We could be looking at Boeser, Demko, Hughes, and Pettersson all making $6.5M+ in not too long--but you're right in that even that scenario doesn't likely happen for at least 2 or 3 more years.

What I think should really scare people is that if Luongo doesn't retire after this season, we are looking at hefty cap penalties. Then again, they could pull a Hossa and have him LTIR'd for the next 3 years...

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3 hours ago, canuckistani said:

This year, the draft is in Vancouver. Which means we are in the best position of all the teams, to study the 2-7th round prospects and pick out hidden gems. Drafts always favor the host city in this range, since the combines happen in their facilities, they are able to summon far more of their scouts to the location, etc. due to logistical factors.

 

As such, we have some flexibility in our roster that some teams do not. The NHL requires the roster to be 23 man strong max on the first day of the new season before anyone can be put on LTIR. However, since EP, Gaudette & Hughes are waiver-exempted for the next 2,1 and 3 years respectively, it means we can take on a few bad contracts for draft picks, 'temporarily demote' one (or all) of these players to reach roster size, put the bad contract on LTIR and 'recall' them - they don't even have to leave town and its usually over in 24 hours anyways.

 

We also have plenty of cap space to pull this off for the next year or two. 

 

As such, there is Toronto, still has Horton for another year for 5+mil and hardly any roster spot left.

Detroit is also up against the cap and they have the Zetterberg contract for 2 more years and the Franzen contract for 1 more. All these contracts expire before Seattle expansion draft, so its not gonna mess with our protected list. 

So is it worth it ? 
Should we do a trade akin to To Van: Zetterberg + R2 +R3 type of deals ? Will they do it ? What do you folks think ?

we have one already called loui Eriksson  and u want to bring more  ?   really ?

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1 minute ago, the grinder said:

we have one already called loui Eriksson  and u want to bring more  ?   really ?

1. LE is not a retired/permanently injured player who we can immediately put in the LTIR for the whole season 1 day after the beginning of the season.

2. If it gives us free picks and considering we can afford it and have waiver-exempt people in our roster to accomodate roster needs, why not ?!?

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1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

I'd like the idea of taking on short-term bad deals that don't have NMCs, but coming up soon, we will have both Boeser and EP on big contracts, so money will become an issue in the coming years moreso, so I wouldn't want anything over 2 years.

yeah IIRC there arn't that many surefire dustbin contracts left in the league. I am not talking about taking on a Lucic or a Seabrook type contract, i mean the Zetterbergs, Hossas, Franzens, Hortons of the world - where we have to 'temporarily demote' one of the waiver eligible guys (EP, QH or AG) for a day, put these guys on LTIR for the whole season and rock on. 

This works for teams that have cap-space because the NHL allows you to carry 110% of Max Cap-hit till the first day of the new season. Meaning, if next years Cap limit is 80M, the day before 1st day of the season, we can carry 88M in contracts. 
And given that we have ~15-20 mil in cap space, we can get UFAs and still not go over the cap. 

Plus all these surefire LTIR contracts are set to expire before the Seattle draft. I think given that there are some teams that have very little wiggle room left in their cap scenario or don't have as many waiver-eligible players left ( toronto for eg for the latter, detroit for the former), we may have a Vegas-like window to take bad contracts such as these packaged with picks.

Basically it'd amount to buying picks for a 4-5 million per year hit rate. 

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1 hour ago, Baer. said:

Toronto has no reason to not do what you just said. Temporarily demote somebody and then when the season starts, put Horton back on LTIR.

Toronto doesn't have the wiggle room for it. Barring farm promotions, they have only 1 player in their roster who is waiver exempt. Which means they'd either have to waive someone for Horton on 1st day of the season or really bank on promoting a marlies dude for opening the next season or making an immediate trade early next season. Gives them very little wiggle room in terms of spots. 

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1 minute ago, canuckistani said:

1. LE is not a retired/permanently injured player who we can immediately put in the LTIR for the whole season 1 day after the beginning of the season.

2. If it gives us free picks and considering we can afford it and have waiver-exempt people in our roster to accomodate roster needs, why not ?!?

then what player do you propose we do this with ?   im sure aquaman just loves throwing money around     and nothin is free  there is no such thing as a free pick,   wouldn't you rather spend money on players that actually play the game ?

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3 minutes ago, the grinder said:

then what player do you propose we do this with ?   im sure aquaman just loves throwing money around     and nothin is free  there is no such thing as a free pick,   wouldn't you rather spend money on players that actually play the game ?

I literally said the names twice...... Zetterberg, Franzen, Horton, Hossa, etc. 

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2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

I literally said the names twice...... Zetterberg, Franzen, Horton, Hossa, etc. 

those are examples   those deal are done       aquaman isn't gonna throw  away 4,5 million just to get a 3rd round pick   that not good business 

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Just now, the grinder said:

 

those are examples   those deal are done       aquaman isn't gonna throw  away 4,5 million just to get a 3rd round pick   that not good business 

thats good business to acquire more picks in a rebuilding team. Thats why those kind of deals are done. And what do you mean those deals are done ?!? I literally just said that Toronto has little leverage with waiver-exempt players and Detroit has little leverage in cap-space. These kind of deals have been done before, especially for teams like Arizona who like to load up on picks to keep more ELC contracts around ( and thus remain near cap floor) or by Vegas when it showed up to build a team with more pick options. 

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3 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

thats good business to acquire more picks in a rebuilding team. Thats why those kind of deals are done. And what do you mean those deals are done ?!? I literally just said that Toronto has little leverage with waiver-exempt players and Detroit has little leverage in cap-space. These kind of deals have been done before, especially for teams like Arizona who like to load up on picks to keep more ELC contracts around ( and thus remain near cap floor) or by Vegas when it showed up to build a team with more pick options. 

and how has that worked for Arizona  ?  they still suck      yep those deals have been done  hossa Horton  , vegas  was just starting a team  so they had no players  and  could afford or had to do it to make the cap floor  , aquaman isn't gonna waste money to get a 3rd round  pick  that just does not  make sense 

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5 minutes ago, the grinder said:

and how has that worked for Arizona  ?  they still suck      yep those deals have been done  hossa Horton  , vegas  was just starting a team  so they had no players  and  could afford or had to do it to make the cap floor  , aquaman isn't gonna waste money to get a 3rd round  pick  that just does not  make sense 

It has worked well for THEM. 

Their objective to acquire multiple draft picks is to have a lot of players in their ELC range so they can stay close to cap floor with a full roster- which they are fulfilling.

Vegas did the same thing and their objective was to acquire extra picks to build a solid team and pipeline of assets to stay competetive. They are also fulfilling that. 


And nobody said take 3rd round picks for a 15 million Zetterberg contract. But you are not aquaman, so don't speak for him. The value of the dead contract obviously has to be worth the pick associated with it and Vegas scored a couple of 2nd round a couple of first round picks by taking such bad contracts. We have a window of opportunity to do it for this year and next, which is worth exploring. 

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16 minutes ago, the grinder said:

and how has that worked for Arizona  ?  they still suck      yep those deals have been done  hossa Horton  , vegas  was just starting a team  so they had no players  and  could afford or had to do it to make the cap floor  , aquaman isn't gonna waste money to get a 3rd round  pick  that just does not  make sense 

i think you are confusing some things in your analysis

just because the canucks might take on a player contract of an inactive player

does not mean that the team actually pays that entire salary

often the salary is insured and is mostly paid from insurance
 

the real issue is cap room ...... those teams need the cap room . we have extra room

it would be similar to the discussions we have about loui and his bad contract

some team can take his 6 million cap hit and pay him 3 million or less

and that is attractive to them as they can hit the salary cap floor without paying that actual amount out in salary

loui is an active player with a bad contract. he will continue to play

an inactive player with essentially a dead contract is not expected to play and this is solely a financially driven move

 

so aquaman could actually waste a lot less money then you are thinking

to get that 3rd round draft pick

 

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