The UCP Alberta Government - Threatens to Turn off Oil Taps

[canuckistani]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

So who in Vancouver is telling Alberta to stop drilling??? 

 

As for shipping, BC does have a say since it's along the province coastline.

 

If BC is unwilling, then perhaps send the oil East and ship it from there.

 

One in a trillion disaster is an exaggeration.  

BC has as much say in whether oil should go past our coastline, as Richmond has a say in whether you can use their airport. Its not BC's waters, its Canada's. And Alberta has right of access to its nearest maritime seaboard. BC, Alberta, etc. are sub-national, inconsequential administrative units, who's sole purpose of existence is to expedite governance from Ottawa. It means nothing on its own. 

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

BC has as much say in whether oil should go past our coastline, as Richmond has a say in whether you can use their airport. Its not BC's waters, its Canada's. And Alberta has right of access to its nearest maritime seaboard. BC, Alberta, etc. are sub-national, inconsequential administrative units, who's sole purpose of existence is to expedite governance from Ottawa. It means nothing on its own. 

http://www.salishsea.ca/resources/Riparianrights/Greenshores JurisdictionIssueSheet_finalVer4.pdf

 

Wrong again

 

 

[canuckistani]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Oh.  You...didn't?  So...all those quotes of yours are...what?  Want me to repost them again?  They're really close.  Just 3 posts back or so.

Saying we are top 10% of polluters in the world is what i have done. What rest of Canada does, is irrelevant. 

Just now, Warhippy said:

 

Your opinions aren't fact.  Your facts aren't facts.  Your facts are opinions.  Prove it.

http://www.eniscuola.net/en/mediateca/main-oil-consuming-countries-ranking-by-per-capita-consumption-2016/

 

https://ceoworld.biz/2018/11/13/the-worlds-biggest-oil-consuming-countries/

 

I was being nice. Turns out we are not top 10% in world's oil consumption, but in the top 1%. Top 1% of the planet = 75 million people. Only nations that consume per capita greater than us = Saudi, Qatar,Kuwait and UAE, who's population = 30-35 million. Then its us Canadians. 

We are 10-15% lower than Canadian average ? boo freaking hoo. We are still in the top 1 % of the world's oil consumers per capita. Welcome to Vancouver's hypocrisy !

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

BC has as much say in whether oil should go past our coastline, as Richmond has a say in whether you can use their airport. Its not BC's waters, its Canada's. And Alberta has right of access to its nearest maritime seaboard. BC, Alberta, etc. are sub-national, inconsequential administrative units, who's sole purpose of existence is to expedite governance from Ottawa. It means nothing on its own. 

but YVR does have full discretion over who can land there..... and Richmond does have a say in fuel pipelines. They have to work together and have. 

 

We have a constitution with both federal and provincial rights that didn't anticipate everything. Its fully within BCs rights to find out in court where it stands. That doesn't make anyone a hypocrite, just wisely learning where the edges are and how much power you have or not. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[canuckistani]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

http://www.salishsea.ca/resources/Riparianrights/Greenshores JurisdictionIssueSheet_finalVer4.pdf

 

Wrong again

 

 

Time to change these laws that put NIMBY-istic provinces ahead of the nation, then. Next centralizing party gets my vote. 

[canuckistani]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

but YVR does have full discretion over who can land there..... and Richmond does have a say in fuel pipelines. They have to work together and have. 

 

We have a constitution with both federal and provincial rights that didn't anticipate everything. Its fully within BCs rights to find out in court where it stands. That doesn't make anyone a hypocrite, just wisely learning where the edges are and how much power you have or not. 

And its fully within my rights to elect a government that will nix BC and other provincial rights into nothing-ness at the benefit of CANADIAN rights. 

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Saying we are top 10% of polluters in the world is what i have done. What rest of Canada does, is irrelevant. 

http://www.eniscuola.net/en/mediateca/main-oil-consuming-countries-ranking-by-per-capita-consumption-2016/

 

https://ceoworld.biz/2018/11/13/the-worlds-biggest-oil-consuming-countries/

 

I was being nice. Turns out we are not top 10% in world's oil consumption, but in the top 1%. Top 1% of the planet = 75 million people. Only nations that consume per capita greater than us = Saudi, Qatar,Kuwait and UAE, who's population = 30-35 million. Then its us Canadians. 

We are 10-15% lower than Canadian average ? boo freaking hoo. We are still in the top 1 % of the world's oil consumers per capita. Welcome to Vancouver's hypocrisy !

So... you're just ignorant?

 

Ok good I was sure if you were a liar or just ignorant so I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

Much of Canada's oil and energy use is due to sheer size of the nation and the costs of transportation on highways and rails.

 

Not personal use or consumption.

 

But do go on

[BPA]

9 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

BC has as much say in whether oil should go past our coastline, as Richmond has a say in whether you can use their airport. Its not BC's waters, its Canada's. And Alberta has right of access to its nearest maritime seaboard. BC, Alberta, etc. are sub-national, inconsequential administrative units, who's sole purpose of existence is to expedite governance from Ottawa. It means nothing on its own. 

JT bought the pipeline so it will be eventually used as intended.   Perhaps not as soon as you would like it.

 

I think the outrage you are displaying odd.  You are mad at Vancouverites for NIMBY but also like living here.  You are outraged the Vancouver is limiting global supply for "poor" countries but the supply is still there (just not transported fast or cheaply enough).

 

It seems to me that you have a personal stake in the pipeline rather than the holier than thou moral supremacy you are currently displaying.

 

But what do I know.  I'm a Vancouver hypocrite.

 

PS:  It takes generations for change.  So asking Canada and/or Vancouver to instantly stop being the top 10% oil user is ludicrous. Look how long it took for recycling to happen.  Look how long it took for minority rights.

[Ronaldoescobar]

IDGAF about all this arguing back and forth as amusing as it is... But WTF Kenney??? Thought the taps were being turned off....

[canuckistani]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

So... you're just ignorant?

 

Ok good I was sure if you were a liar or just ignorant so I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

Much of Canada's oil and energy use is due to sheer size of the nation and the costs of transportation on highways and rails.

 

Not personal use or consumption.

 

But do go on

No matter how much you squirm, it won't change the fact, that opposition of oil from Vancouver = world's top 1% consumers of a resource are trying to block the said resource to the rest of the world, causing greater hardship to the poorest in the world. Develop our Mag-levs and replace our trucks and stuff before whining on how rest of the world should use less oil. 

[canuckistani]

14 minutes ago, BPA said:

JT bought the pipeline so it will be eventually used as intended.   Perhaps not as soon as you would like it.

 

I think the outrage you are displaying odd.  You are mad at Vancouverites for NIMBY but also like living here.  You are outraged the Vancouver is limiting global supply for "poor" countries but the supply is still there (just not transported fast or cheaply enough).

 

It seems to me that you have a personal stake in the pipeline rather than the holier than thou moral supremacy you are currently displaying.

 

But what do I know.  I'm a Vancouver hypocrite.

 

PS:  It takes generations for change.  So asking Canada and/or Vancouver to instantly stop being the top 10% oil user is ludicrous. Look how long it took for recycling to happen.  Look how long it took for minority rights.

I have zero stocks in oil ( too volatile for my tastes without enough of a carrot in it) and i am a programmer who works outside the oil industry. Literally zero stakes for me.

I am simply dishing out some of Vancouver's own medicine. 
Only difference is, my holier-than-thou attitude isn't coming at the cost of blocking a resource for the poorest in the world. 

 

PS: I know how long it takes for such changes. My point is, stop trying to be sanctimonious about the environment and pretending to do good for the environment, when we are more guilty of hurting it than 99% of the world, when it comes to oil. Actions speak louder than words and Vancouver's actions is that of an elite consumer of a resource ( top 1 % globally) while trying to deny it to others. Thats the bottomline to oil protests. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by canuckistani

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

I have zero stocks in oil ( too volatile for my tastes without enough of a carrot in it) and i am a programmer who works outside the oil industry. Literally zero stakes for me.

I am simply dishing out some of Vancouver's own medicine. 
Only difference is, my holier-than-thou attitude isn't coming at the cost of blocking a resource for the poorest in the world. 

Here's the thing. 

 

I don't think the resource is blocked (correct me if I'm wrong).  It will cost more due to the higher cost in transportation (via rail).  Also Vancouver is not preventing the poor countries from purchasing the oil elsewhere either.  Or are you somehow implying that the sale of Canada oil will be so low compared to other oil producing nations?

[canuckistani]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

Here's the thing. 

 

I don't think the resource is blocked (correct me if I'm wrong).  It will cost more due to the higher cost in transportation (via rail).  Also Vancouver is not preventing the poor countries from purchasing the oil elsewhere either.  Or are you somehow implying that the sale of Canada oil will be so low compared to other oil producing nations?

1. Shipping oil by train is a stupid idea - its far riskier and less safer than by pipeline.

2. Costing more = blocking resources to the poorest. When bread costs more, its still available, but the poorest of the world start to starve due to being priced out. Same principle applies to oil. 

3. Canada is one of the FEW major oil producing countries that isn't part of the OPEC price-fixing cabal. As such, Canadian companies have far greater leeway than OPEC producers in terms of providing a good deal to the poorer nations - which we have in order to under-cut the OPEC's volume angle Trying to block Canadian oil being shipped overseas has a domino effect on the poorest of the world's accessibility to oil. 

 

[BPA]

10 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

1. Shipping oil by train is a stupid idea - its far riskier and less safer than by pipeline.

2. Costing more = blocking resources to the poorest. When bread costs more, its still available, but the poorest of the world start to starve due to being priced out. Same principle applies to oil. 

3. Canada is one of the FEW major oil producing countries that isn't part of the OPEC price-fixing cabal. As such, Canadian companies have far greater leeway than OPEC producers in terms of providing a good deal to the poorer nations - which we have in order to under-cut the OPEC's volume angle Trying to block Canadian oil being shipped overseas has a domino effect on the poorest of the world's accessibility to oil. 

 

Shouldn't you be more upset with OPEC??

 

Also, you are assuming that Canada will ship oil at a discount (prices far lower than OPEC)??  Since when have oil companies been so accommodating??

 

[canuckistani]

Just now, BPA said:

Shouldn't you be more upset with OPEC??

Its not one or the other. At least OPEC citizens arn't being Vancouver style Mary Antoinettes. 

Just now, BPA said:

 

Also, you are assuming that Canada will ship oil at a discount (prices far lower than OPEC)??  Since when have oil companies been so accommodating??

 

We ship oil at a discount because heavy sour crude we make ( which is the industry's term for bitumen with high sulphur content) is more expensive to process. The trade-off, is that heavy sour crude produces far more tar in its refining process than sweet light crude. Thus, heavy sour crude is marginally favored by the developing world because of the excess quantity of tar is directly beneficial towards their road buildng projects which is the prime bottle-neck for domestic consumption of oil ( aka transportation). 

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, canuckistani said:

The devious motives are self evident. We assign it to the rich ourselves, when the rich protest taxation we make the exact same argument that I am making - they wanna keep what they have, while not giving a hoot about the poorest of the society. Well until Vacouverites, with their greater disposable income and greater access to transit than 90% of the planet, starts to not be top 10% of oil consumers, their protests are no more than ' don't do what we do but we need it, you can go eff yourself'. 

Pffft.

Demand for better, cleaner, nicer, floating palaces in the sky is everywhere. Actions speak louder than hollow words and actions of Vancouverites is nothing more than ' we will use more oil than 90% of the planet per capita, but its dirty, so we will also block it, so the poorest in the world can go eff themselves'. Thats our actions and that will not be overriden by hollow words. 

 

PS: I came here and i stay here, because its a soft, easy country to live in. However, i am considering sending my kids overseas to boarding school for a year or two so that they can learn not to be soft as their parents did. 

Edgy post there hardcase!

[BPA]

10 minutes ago, canuckistani said:

Its not one or the other. At least OPEC citizens arn't being Vancouver style Mary Antoinettes. 

We ship oil at a discount because heavy sour crude we make ( which is the industry's term for bitumen with high sulphur content) is more expensive to process. The trade-off, is that heavy sour crude produces far more tar in its refining process than sweet light crude. Thus, heavy sour crude is marginally favored by the developing world because of the excess quantity of tar is directly beneficial towards their road buildng projects which is the prime bottle-neck for domestic consumption of oil ( aka transportation). 

Canada Bitumen prices have fallen hard.  It's been the cheapest it's been in a long while at about $20 per barrel.  So how much more is it costing to transport by Rail that makes it so the "poor" countries can't afford it??

 

The bottleneck they are experiencing is poor planning more than anything.  They shouldn't be expecting other countries to speed up delivery to meet their demands. 

[canuckistani]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

Canada Bitumen prices have fallen hard.  It's been the cheapest it's been in a long while at about $20 per barrel.  So how much more is it costing to transport by Rail that makes it so the "poor" countries can't afford it??

Canadian and Venezuelan crude has always been cheaper than sweet crude, due to greater refining costs. The overall fluctuations of price matches that of the overall oil industry but doesn't change the fact that ours is consistently 20-25% cheaper due to the refining costs angle. 

1 minute ago, BPA said:

 

The bottleneck they are experiencing is poor planning more than anything.  They shouldn't be expecting other countries to speed up delivery to meet their demands. 

Not poor planning, but lack of money. They arn't expecting hand-outs, neither am I. I am not arguing for giving oil for free to the world. I am simply arguing against being Mary Antoinette style hypocritical billionaires who oppose higher tax rate, aka top 1% in consuming oil per capita, while wanting to stop its access to others. Be the change you want to see in the world, if you want the world to take you seriously. 

There's a reason why Vancouverites's reputation in rest of Canada, nevermind rest of the world, is that of ' those plastic canoe riding hippie fools who will protest against oil to further screw over people who can barely afford oil for transportation and don't even begin to buy plastic canoes'. We are the laughing stock of rest of the world due to this hypocrisy of ours. 

[BPA]

You'll have to provide the link that the article that says Vancouver is a laughing stock.

 

I googled it and it only came up with Laughing Stock Vineyards in Naramata.   

 

Good wine 

[canuckistani]

1 minute ago, BPA said:

You'll have to provide the link that the article that says Vancouver is a laughing stock.

 

I googled it and it only came up with Laughing Stock Vineyards in Naramata.   

 

Good wine 

google harder, i suppose. 

Not to mention, maybe, just maybe, go visit other parts of the world and see what they think of our pampered behinds.