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janisahockeynut

[Discussion] Stats and Analytics Defensemen

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Really been thinking about this for some time...…….

But I don't have the whole answer

 

So lets look at Erik Karlsson and Tyler Myers this season...…….2 biggest UFA RHD Defensemen

 

Erik Karlsson              52 games played                +3  even strength                20 PPP...…….1st pairing strong team       contribution = +23 goals for

Tyler Myers                 72                                       +12 even strength                 6 PPP...…….2nd pairing strong team      contribution = +18 goals for

 

Alex Edler                   48                                        +3  even strength                13 PPP...…….1st pairing Canucks            contribution = +16 goals for

Ben Hutton                 64                                       -20  even strength                    8 PPP...……2/3 pairing Canucks            contribution = -12 goals for

Chris Tanev                55                                         +3  even strength                  0 PPP...…….1st pairing Canucks            contribution = + 3 goals for

Troy Stecher               70                                       +10  even strength                  2 PPP...……2nd pairing Canucks           contribution = +12 goals for

 

So we can see from the +/- and the PPP points (traditional) that the 2 UFA's do for their team

What I am missing is the Analytics that even it out, in terms of quality of team mate stats, etc....………...

Not going to bother pro-rating this for 82 games...…..

 

I also think it is unfair to judge Hutton to some degree as he played with Gudbranson all year

 

Can the analytics people on here shed some light?

 

Any general thoughts?

 

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#analitics

 

Eriksson for 10+m x infinity

Myers for 7m x7

 

Hell yes Ill take an Edler extension please.  

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1 minute ago, Crabcakes said:

Hutton :unsure:

CC

Do you have any way of showing what Hutton's plus/minus was with Gudbranson and without Gudbranson, 

I don't think it was that bad without...……….I could be wrong!

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11 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

CC

Do you have any way of showing what Hutton's plus/minus was with Gudbranson and without Gudbranson, 

I don't think it was that bad without...……….I could be wrong!

No, I'm not a stats nerd.  I wouldn't know where to look for that info.

 

I just see that number along with my observations of him struggling to get the puck out of the zone and I wonder.  Too many of the Canucks D get back to the puck in the corner and have no idea what to do with it.  Hrudy was showing replays of Giordano, and he looks around while skating back to the puck so he already knows what he wants to do with it. Petey is the same.  Guddy was a -27 as a Canuck so he certainly didn't help but I don't think we can blame him entirely.  The book on the Canucks is to shoot the puck in to the right corner (left D) because the puck is easier to retrieve

 

It could be that they have just asked too much of Hutton.  3rd pair may be his level but he's getting paid too much to be 3rd pair

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

No, I'm not a stats nerd.  I wouldn't know where to look for that info.

 

I just see that number along with my observations of him struggling to get the puck out of the zone and I wonder.  Too many of the Canucks D get back to the puck in the corner and have no idea what to do with it.  Hrudy was showing replays of Giordano, and he looks around while skating back to the puck so he already knows what he wants to do with it. Petey is the same.  Guddy was a -27 as a Canuck so he certainly didn't help but I don't think we can blame him entirely.  The book on the Canucks is to shoot the puck in to the right corner (left D) because the puck is easier to retrieve

 

It could be that they have just asked too much of Hutton.  3rd pair may be his level but he's getting paid too much to be 3rd pair

 

 

You know, I think it unfair to compare Hutton with Giordano, but I get what you saying......

It is just that when Gud was gone and Stecher and Hutton were playing big minutes filling in for injure Edler and Tanev, he played pretty good via eye test, but analytics may say otherwise......

 

I agree, that as a 3rd pairing he might be getting too much....budget wise, but "IF" he showed better away from Guddy and better with Stecher, and if those analytics showed better, than we might come to a different conclusion...…...

 

I would just like a complete picture and the +/- isn't broken down as to when he was playing with Gud……...analytics can be broken down better

 

It would give us a much better indication of his value

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

You know, I think it unfair to compare Hutton with Giordano, but I get what you saying......

It is just that when Gud was gone and Stecher and Hutton were playing big minutes filling in for injure Edler and Tanev, he played pretty good via eye test, but analytics may say otherwise......

 

I agree, that as a 3rd pairing he might be getting too much....budget wise, but "IF" he showed better away from Guddy and better with Stecher, and if those analytics showed better, than we might come to a different conclusion...…...

 

I would just like a complete picture and the +/- isn't broken down as to when he was playing with Gud……...analytics can be broken down better

 

It would give us a much better indication of his value

My thoughts on Hutton are similar to my thoughts on Edler. If there were better D for them to play with they would also be better. As of right now our entire D is playing over their heads. 

 

Edler is a 2/3 D playing as a 1D

Tanev is a 4D playing as a 2D

Hutton is a 4/5D playing as a 3D

Stetcher is a 5/6D playing as a 4D

 

If thats your top 4 right there every single one of those players is going to look like absolute garbage in the roles being asked of them. when you compare that to.

 

Edler Eirhoff/Salo

Ham Juice 

Ballard Salo/Tanev

 

 

It becomes really apparent why this team can't win its way out of a paper bag. That being said time will be the difference Hughes Woo Juolevi developing. Now were getting somewhere. Maybe we Draft Byram this year maybe Tryamkin decides to come give the NHL another shot now we have a top 8.  Lets hold the FFwd button down 2 seasons.

 

Edler Hughes

Byram Tryamkin (Hutton Tanev)

Juolevi Woo

Teves Stetcher

 

Thats a wide open high octane new NHL D corps right there. Too bad it's still cooking. JB is doing the right thing though. Edler Tanev Hutton Stetcher will eventually fit where they should. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, hammertime said:

My thoughts on Hutton are similar to my thoughts on Edler. If there were better D for them to play with they would also be better. As of right now our entire D is playing over their heads. 

 

Edler is a 2/3 D playing as a 1D

Tanev is a 4D playing as a 2D

Hutton is a 4/5D playing as a 3D

Stetcher is a 5/6D playing as a 4D

 

If thats your top 4 right there every single one of those players is going to look like absolute garbage in the roles being asked of them. when you compare that to.

 

Edler Eirhoff/Salo

Ham Juice 

Ballard Salo/Tanev

 

 

It becomes really apparent why this team can't win its way out of a paper bag. That being said time will be the difference Hughes Woo Juolevi developing. Now were getting somewhere. Maybe we Draft Byram this year maybe Tryamkin decides to come give the NHL another shot now we have a top 8.  Lets hold the FFwd button down 2 seasons.

 

Edler Hughes

Byram Tryamkin (Hutton Tanev)

Juolevi Woo

Teves Stetcher

 

Thats a wide open high octane new NHL D corps right there. Too bad it's still cooking. JB is doing the right thing though. Edler Tanev Hutton Stetcher will eventually fit where they should. 

 

 

 

Right at the end of the night. last night....way too late.....I came up with this...….

 

Hughes Pesce

Edler  Stecher

Tryamkin Tanev

Rathbone-Woo

Saunter-

 

So, I guess, my thoughts are we go after Pesce, who is a great Damn, and on a great contract

 

My quick thoughts last night were...……..

 

Vancouver trades their 2020 1st (unprotected) + Baertschi/Pearson + Juolevi and DiPietro

for

Pesce and Carolina's 2019 1st

Edited by janisahockeynut

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I'd rather stay the course. Pesce is fine I guess but I still believe Juolevi can become a better player. 

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35 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I'd rather stay the course. Pesce is fine I guess but I still believe Juolevi can become a better player. 

Juolevi is an LD and Pesce is RD so you could be right but the right side is the issue in Vancouver. Hughes juolevi Rathbone and of dreams come true tryamkin all left side d but the only mainstay on right is stecher. Pesce by the eye test would be a good fit I'm just worries if he fits greens system. 

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