Van Minni @ the draft Proposal the unthinkable

[Calvin's Dog]

I love the idea of trading for Trouba or Dumba. I totally think they are what we need and what their respective teams need. However they will take hefty assets to get out of their respective markets.

 

One guy that I have suggested elsewhere that I think could be available is PK Suban. I think if Nashville does not have a successful playoff that they may look to change things up. I also heard that maybe they are interested in signing Duchene (why, I don't know). 

 

If Suban were available do you think this is enough:

 

Tanev (50% retained) Remember, on a better possession team he may not have to break his foot so often blocking shots and plays a lesser role in Nashville behind

2019: 2nd

2020: 1st

=Conditional pick over the length of contract based on some sort of playoff success.

 

Subban 

Bonino (if they want to dump cap) I think he could help our depth on left wing (plays centre too) off the books before Pettersson and Hughes get paid.

 

 

 

 

[Dungass]

2 hours ago, hammertime said:

I am as stoked as anyone about this upcoming draft. Let's say we miss the boat on the lotto though. No Hughes no Kakko no Byram. We end up with the 7/8th pick there are no top end RHD in this draft. But there are some good options in the 2nd. 

 

The Canucks trade our 1st 2019 to Minni + Jake Virtanen

 

Minni Trades Matt Dumba

 

Dumba is 24 RHD was injured most of the season (threw a wild punch) however is the type of player I dream of the Canucks being able to draft. He is fast, aggressive offensivly, has a cannon and plays with edge.  

 

Minni now has 2 picks in the 7-12 range to help control their cap and stay competitive as Pariese's and Suters contracts turn into the albatrosses we all knew they would be. 

 

Edler Dumba

Hughes Tanev

Hutton Stetcher

Juolevi Woo

I think you did alright with this brother.  Usually, I hate reading these posts, as they are invariably, Goldobin, juolevi and a 2nd for Jack Hughes kind of crap.  I'm not sure that our 1st and Jake would get it done, but it's a decent starting point of discussion.  Point of fact, I don't have any problems parting with our first for a good d-men in the 24ish age range.  

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

You really like him huh I have read you pumping his tires before. For me he's not in the top 10 discussion. Have you watched much of his play what is peaking your interest so high. He looks like a 2nd pairing nothing flashy good all round minute muncher to me. He does not scream Elite but when it comes to D the best ones are often the ones who aren't super flashy. 

 

I'm curious if you have been watching him closely why you are keying in on him as an elite D prospect?

some hockey pundits are rating him as the 2nd best d-man in the draft.  they say he is not elite at anything but good at all faucets of the game. he might be another tanev type. 

he is the top rated rd in the draft, he is top 7 in some mock drafts. i read and watch everything i can on the players. it is interesting that after the top two players, draft lists are all different. turcotte is ranked from 3rd to 12th. i have no expertise or crystal ball. just adding my opinion to everyone elses. i want cozens but he is ranked 3rd to 8th. 

i’m interested in getting a scorer to play with bo and a good 2/3 rd for the future. 

it is good that benning has been good at getting good players lately. 

i’ld rather go after guys like roland mckeown, a right shot d-man that is expected to have a good nhl career than paying 8 to 12 million and 8 year contracts to players who might be albatroses around our necks within a couple of years. 

if we get 3rd pick, i could see JB taking byram because he admits he has to fix the defense this summer. 

i’ld love to see hughes play the right side where he says he is comfortable playing then if we get byram, we’ld have hughes, byram, juolevi and woo as our top 4 d-men. not too shaby.

[Ronaldoescobar]

1 hour ago, hammertime said:

Took out Granny threw in Virtanen to add some actual trade value to this.

Thats a better offer imo but I dont know if its quite enough to get it done. I think we would have to add another pick or prospect and would be bordering on too expensive. 

 

Definitely better than a lot of proposals on there though. 

[mll]

48 minutes ago, Calvin's Dog said:

I love the idea of trading for Trouba or Dumba. I totally think they are what we need and what their respective teams need. However they will take hefty assets to get out of their respective markets.

 

One guy that I have suggested elsewhere that I think could be available is PK Suban. I think if Nashville does not have a successful playoff that they may look to change things up. I also heard that maybe they are interested in signing Duchene (why, I don't know). 

 

If Suban were available do you think this is enough:

 

Tanev (50% retained) Remember, on a better possession team he may not have to break his foot so often blocking shots and plays a lesser role in Nashville behind

2019: 2nd

2020: 1st

=Conditional pick over the length of contract based on some sort of playoff success.

 

Subban 

Bonino (if they want to dump cap) I think he could help our depth on left wing (plays centre too) off the books before Pettersson and Hughes get paid.

 

 

 

 

 

Nashville would have no interest in Tanev.  He's not their kind of D.

 

In Nashville the Ds are an integral part of the attack and Laviolette explains that in the o-zone there is no positional play - it's just 5 guys cycling together and trying to score a goal.  It's not unusual to see both Ds below the hashmarks.  

 

Turris is the guy they would want to move.  He has struggled since the end of last season and a foot injury this season hasn't helped him.  He has even been healthy scratched recently for a couple of games.  

 

If Fabbro shows well, Subban will likely become available but not for that package.  Nashville's window is wide open.  Poile thinks Fiala could become better than Granlund but he still traded him because Fiala still needs time to develop.  I don't think draft picks would be the principal of a Subban deal.  

 

They want to fix their 2nd line.  That's why they have interest in Duchene to replace Turris.

 

 

[hammertime]

9 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

some hockey pundits are rating him as the 2nd best d-man in the draft.  they say he is not elite at anything but good at all faucets of the game. he might be another tanev type. 

he is the top rated rd in the draft, he is top 7 in some mock drafts. i read and watch everything i can on the players. it is interesting that after the top two players, draft lists are all different. turcotte is ranked from 3rd to 12th. i have no expertise or crystal ball. just adding my opinion to everyone elses. i want cozens but he is ranked 3rd to 8th. 

i’m interested in getting a scorer to play with bo and a good 2/3 rd for the future. 

it is good that benning has been good at getting good players lately. 

i’ld rather go after guys like roland mckeown, a right shot d-man that is expected to have a good nhl career than paying 8 to 12 million and 8 year contracts to players who might be albatroses around our necks within a couple of years. 

if we get 3rd pick, i could see JB taking byram because he admits he has to fix the defense this summer. 

i’ld love to see hughes play the right side where he says he is comfortable playing then if we get byram, we’ld have hughes, byram, juolevi and woo as our top 4 d-men. not too shaby.

If JB gets 3rd and passes on Byram I might flip the table. hahaha.

 

Interesting you and I are so far apart on our wish list of players after that. For sure yes if Cousins is still there at 7,8,9 where we likely pick absolutely grab him but he's not in my top 5. I also watch a lot of hockey and have begun to do my homework on the draft. I too am very eager to draft a goal scorer if we can't have Byram. My knock on Cousins is he reminds me a lot of Virtanen who I'm a fan of but not as a top 10 pick. His passing is erratic and he seems to just drive the puck up ice with the blinders on often getting stuffed at the blue line. When he does break loose which he often does as he is damn fast he does 9 times out of ten the same power move cut to the net that jake does with very little actual NHL goals to show for it but it sure looked good in JR. I would like to see Cousins use his speed to create space and open up a passing lane more for a higher quality scoring chance than a shot 3 feet from the goalie. He is still a top 10 prospect for me though. 

 

Caufield is the kid who is really standing out to me he is small but he's feisty he scores so many goals from the dirty areas and his wrister is just lethal. Might even drop to 7,8,9

Newhook has the wheels possibly the 2nd best skater in the draft after Jack. though I think cousins might be faster in a straight line. He Is a driver and has very high hockey IQ. 7,8,9 if he is still there. Watch him drag his team to the royal bank cup I'm sure PG is quaking in their boots rn. 

Turcotte Screams JB pick to me. He has that maturity and poise. Complete 200' player if JB want's to go safe and he is still around I think Turcotte is our man. 

 

I have Kakko, Hughes, Byram, Dach as my top 4.  

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, Calvin's Dog said:

I love the idea of trading for Trouba or Dumba. I totally think they are what we need and what their respective teams need. However they will take hefty assets to get out of their respective markets.

 

One guy that I have suggested elsewhere that I think could be available is PK Suban. I think if Nashville does not have a successful playoff that they may look to change things up. I also heard that maybe they are interested in signing Duchene (why, I don't know). 

 

If Suban were available do you think this is enough:

 

Tanev (50% retained) Remember, on a better possession team he may not have to break his foot so often blocking shots and plays a lesser role in Nashville behind

2019: 2nd

2020: 1st

=Conditional pick over the length of contract based on some sort of playoff success.

 

Subban 

Bonino (if they want to dump cap) I think he could help our depth on left wing (plays centre too) off the books before Pettersson and Hughes get paid.

 

 

 

 

Sutter for Bonino book it!

 

 

[mll]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Sutter for Bonino book it!

 

As for Subban I don't think you're close. I think were talking more like. 

 

Boeser + 2019 1st + Tanev 50% and even then I think Polle would have to call JB up first to consider it. 

Highly unlikely that Nashville would have interest in Sutter.  They want 4 scoring lines.  They really like Bonino and he's been good in a shutdown role for them - he produces and can also play higher in the lineup if necessary.  Nashville wants guys who can cycle to maintain possession - that's not Sutter.

[hammertime]

13 minutes ago, mll said:

Highly unlikely that Nashville would have interest in Sutter.  They want 4 scoring lines.  They really like Bonino and he's been good in a shutdown role for them - he produces and can also play higher in the lineup if necessary.  Nashville wants guys who can cycle to maintain possession - that's not Sutter.

Twas joke. We traded Bonino and Clendenning to Pitts for Sutter remember

 

I also agree with the other Poster Tanev doesn't fit Nashvilles style. 

[Phil_314]

Borderline pipe dream IMO.  They signed him for $6 mil * 5 and he'll take several top assets, he's scoring at a 55 point pace.  
What does Minnesota need, and can we tack on an albatross coming back our way to lower the cost?

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Last time I checked, the value for a young #1 defenseman is off the charts. Actually, teams dont even offer them. And we have CDC here nice and pure thinking we grab one for below market value. 

Seth Jones for Johansen....CLB came out of that one looking pretty good.  It also happens to be the only trade like it in quite a long time.  It’s happened once, so maybe it will happen again...But try and find a team with they many defenders that are that good to trade with would be pretty impossible.  I think you’d have to overpay next time..quite heavily too.

[mll]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Seth Jones for Johansen....CLB came out of that one looking pretty good.  It also happens to be the only trade like it in quite a long time.  It’s happened once, so maybe it will happen again...But try and find a team with they many defenders that are that good to trade with would be pretty impossible.  I think you’d have to overpay next time..quite heavily too.

one for one - C1 for D1.

 

Johansen was coming off a 71 pt season.

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, mll said:

one for one - C1 for D1.

 

Johansen was coming off a 71 pt season.

Yes, but NSH would never have made the trade in the first place if they didn’t already have two or three number 1s in their lineup which was the point I was trying to make.  It’s happened once in the past while, maybe even since the cap started, and the team that made the trade for center likely never would have if all they had was one to trade.  The idea that any team will get one without giving up more than what CLB did last time is questionable, because no team has that kind of depth on D in the NHL right now, well other than NSH.   I’m sure they’d be happy to trade Subban and likely will at some point, but his stock is gone down, injuries, doesn’t play on the P.K., doesn’t play against top competition, doesn’t do any of those things Weber does for MTL...

[mll]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yes, but NSH would never have made the trade in the first place if they didn’t already have two or three number 1s in their lineup which was the point I was trying to make.  It’s happened once in the past while, maybe even since the cap started, and the team that made the trade for center likely never would have if all they had was one to trade.  The idea that any team will get one without giving up more than what CLB did last time is questionable, because no team has that kind of depth on D in the NHL right now, well other than NSH.   I’m sure they’d be happy to trade Subban and likely will at some point, but his stock is gone down, injuries, doesn’t play on the P.K., doesn’t play against top competition, doesn’t do any of those things Weber does for MTL...

 

Predators' beat writer Vingan (The Athletic) predicts that Subban won't finish his contract in Nashville.  The timing will probably depend on Fabbro's development.

 

What they miss the most of Weber is his leadership but not necessarily the on ice play.

 

They moved Weber in large part because of what happened in the playoffs that year.  Anaheim admitted that they only focused on Josi through the neutral zone because they knew Weber doesn't skate the puck out.  They kept on being forced back into their end to defend.  Having 2 guys who can carry the puck out gives options.

Also the Predators' game is about maintaining possession in the o-zone and if the D is just static it's too easy to defend.  They want 5 guys who can move and force the other team to make mistakes by constantly having to change man coverage.  It's spend more time attacking to spend less time defending. 

 

Teams seem to be going that direction too in part because players coming up through the draft are modelling their games after Karlsson and the likes.  What was an advantage for Nashville is becoming more the norm and no longer a separating factor.

 

Ekholm Subban are the shutdown pairing while Josi Ellis get the more offensive assignments.  

[smithers joe]

15 hours ago, hammertime said:

If JB gets 3rd and passes on Byram I might flip the table. hahaha.

 

Interesting you and I are so far apart on our wish list of players after that. For sure yes if Cousins is still there at 7,8,9 where we likely pick absolutely grab him but he's not in my top 5. I also watch a lot of hockey and have begun to do my homework on the draft. I too am very eager to draft a goal scorer if we can't have Byram. My knock on Cousins is he reminds me a lot of Virtanen who I'm a fan of but not as a top 10 pick. His passing is erratic and he seems to just drive the puck up ice with the blinders on often getting stuffed at the blue line. When he does break loose which he often does as he is damn fast he does 9 times out of ten the same power move cut to the net that jake does with very little actual NHL goals to show for it but it sure looked good in JR. I would like to see Cousins use his speed to create space and open up a passing lane more for a higher quality scoring chance than a shot 3 feet from the goalie. He is still a top 10 prospect for me though. 

 

Caufield is the kid who is really standing out to me he is small but he's feisty he scores so many goals from the dirty areas and his wrister is just lethal. Might even drop to 7,8,9

Newhook has the wheels possibly the 2nd best skater in the draft after Jack. though I think cousins might be faster in a straight line. He Is a driver and has very high hockey IQ. 7,8,9 if he is still there. Watch him drag his team to the royal bank cup I'm sure PG is quaking in their boots rn. 

Turcotte Screams JB pick to me. He has that maturity and poise. Complete 200' player if JB want's to go safe and he is still around I think Turcotte is our man. 

 

I have Kakko, Hughes, Byram, Dach as my top 4.  

cozens reminds me of dubois, who i really wanted us to draft.  i’ve been wrong before. if the scouts and people who watch a lot of these live, can’t come to a consensus, than how can we? i doubt there are 2 cdc’ers that have identical lists. benning’s boys know which guys fit their vision of the future. 

[ABNuck]

Our 1st RND pick + Juolevi to COL for Cale Makar....

 

 

I wish...might be a conversation starter BUT I think:

Sakic doesn't have words...walks away speechless...

[Calvin's Dog]

16 hours ago, mll said:

 

Nashville would have no interest in Tanev.  He's not their kind of D.

 

In Nashville the Ds are an integral part of the attack and Laviolette explains that in the o-zone there is no positional play - it's just 5 guys cycling together and trying to score a goal.  It's not unusual to see both Ds below the hashmarks.  

 

Turris is the guy they would want to move.  He has struggled since the end of last season and a foot injury this season hasn't helped him.  He has even been healthy scratched recently for a couple of games.  

 

If Fabbro shows well, Subban will likely become available but not for that package.  Nashville's window is wide open.  Poile thinks Fiala could become better than Granlund but he still traded him because Fiala still needs time to develop.  I don't think draft picks would be the principal of a Subban deal.  

 

They want to fix their 2nd line.  That's why they have interest in Duchene to replace Turris.

 

 

I think Tanev is such a smart player that he could play in any system, given some time. Though I agree he is probably not high on their list, in that kind of system he probably blocks a lot fewer shots and plays down the lineup, so less injury prone. If they could get him at 50% as a third pair guy, I think they might have some interest, especially if it opens up a possibility to get Duchene. I think Weber is their third pair guy right now? I think Tanev is an upgrade over Webber. Maybe doesn't have the shot, but in every other category isn't Tanev more desirable? 

 

 

 

 I don't know Turris enough to know if he is just slumping/not adjusting to the system or if he has hit a wall in terms of production/effectiveness. Don't know that he would help the Canucks at 6 million (another Eriksson?). I think the Canucks don't touch any deal that involves Turris. Not that you were implying that, just if Nashville wants to get rid of Turris.

 

 

 

[Bo53Horvat]

Would you do

 

To Buffalo:

Markstrom

Virtanen

Stetcher

2nd round pick 2020

 

for

 

To Van

Ristolianen

3rd round pick 2019

[mll]

1 hour ago, Calvin's Dog said:

I think Tanev is such a smart player that he could play in any system, given some time. Though I agree he is probably not high on their list, in that kind of system he probably blocks a lot fewer shots and plays down the lineup, so less injury prone. If they could get him at 50% as a third pair guy, I think they might have some interest, especially if it opens up a possibility to get Duchene. I think Weber is their third pair guy right now? I think Tanev is an upgrade over Webber. Maybe doesn't have the shot, but in every other category isn't Tanev more desirable? 

 

 

 

 I don't know Turris enough to know if he is just slumping/not adjusting to the system or if he has hit a wall in terms of production/effectiveness. Don't know that he would help the Canucks at 6 million (another Eriksson?). I think the Canucks don't touch any deal that involves Turris. Not that you were implying that, just if Nashville wants to get rid of Turris.

 

 

 

 

Irwin-Weber are paid league minimum - 675K and Hamhuis is 1.25M.  Tanev at 50% retained is more expensive at 2.25M.  Their 3rd pairing plays 10-12 minutes when everyone is healthy - Hamhuis a bit more.   All are still under contract next season.  It's not a worthwhile investment especially when Tanev doesn't fit how they play.  

 

Their 3rd pairing is not great but it's a marginal issue vs the struggles in their top-4 and Tanev would not be a D they would target to play top-4 minutes.  

 

They also now have Fabbro who should help their 3rd pairing.
 

If Fabbro makes the team they'll likely develop him with the same approach they followed with Jones.  On the 3rd pairing but getting extra shifts with the top-4 Ds for experience and to increase his minutes.  

 

Laviolette says you can only practice 15% of offensive situations like PP, 2-on-1s.  The remaining 85% of offensive situations are reads and hockey sense.  Tanev is not an offensive minded player.

 

[hammertime]

15 hours ago, IBatch said:

Seth Jones for Johansen....CLB came out of that one looking pretty good.  It also happens to be the only trade like it in quite a long time.  It’s happened once, so maybe it will happen again...But try and find a team with they many defenders that are that good to trade with would be pretty impossible.  I think you’d have to overpay next time..quite heavily too.

I think it's possible with either Minni Dumba or Winnipeg Trouba If the offer is good they might listen. Winnipeg will have a tough time signing both Myers and Trouba if their choice is between letting one walk for nothing Myers UFA or getting a good return on the other Trouba RFA I think they would listen to offers. 

 

I think Minni is listening to offers to keep their team relevant while Suter and Parise can still play some hockey. Their deep on D on their right side they have Spurgeon, Paterin, Hunt and prospects Belpedio and Johansson also look to be NHL locks comming through the ranks. Is it better with Dumba of course would their team be more competitive with say Turcotte Newhook Virtanen I think so.