Schneider 08/09 vs Demko 18/19

[c00kies]

20 minutes ago, khay said:

The posts bring back quite a lot of memory. If AV started Schneider against LA from game 1 in 2012 playoffs, would we have beaten them? If so, the road to the cup was completely open that year. I guess without Daniel in the lineup, we would have lost anyways... F*ck Dunc Keith.

 

Yeah, we were one year too early, as the Kings were arguably the better team going into each series despite being an 8 seed. Our 2011 team would have had a field day with those teams, especially the Devils. I feel like we would have been a whole lot healthier too had we been involved with those teams. It sucks Daniel came back too late, because it was a whole different series when he came back.

[Kevin Biestra]

55 minutes ago, stawns said:

Not enough games......he'll get votes but come in behind the big three.

He should be top two, in my opinion.  He has most of his team's wins, basically got them into the playoffs himself.  It's one of the best seasons in modern NHL history and, in all honesty, is more remarkable than Petterson's season.  Binnington is leading all goalies in multiple stats, rookie or not.  Petterson isn't top 50 in NHL scoring and isn't top 40 in points per game.  He's still having a hell of a season and is blowing all other rookie skaters out of the water, but Binnington would probably have the Vezina in the bag if he played 20 more games like the 30 he has played.

 

I don't know what the record is for winning percentage in one season, but Binnington has to be flirting with it.

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

He should be top two, in my opinion.  He has most of his team's wins, basically got them into the playoffs himself.  It's one of the best seasons in modern NHL history and, in all honesty, is more remarkable than Petterson's season.  Binnington is leading all goalies in multiple stats, rookie or not.  Petterson isn't top 50 in NHL scoring and isn't top 40 in points per game.  He's still having a hell of a season and is blowing all other rookie skaters out of the water, but Binnington would probably have the Vezina in the bag if he played 20 more games like the 30 he has played.

 

I don't know what the record is for winning percentage in one season, but Binnington has to be flirting with it.

I'm not disagreeing, at all.  But games played is a huge factor for goalies in the Calder race.  Honestly, I think it goes to Dahlin.  Petey had it sewn up, but completely fell off the cliff in the second half.  For people who watch the Canucks, we can point to the fact that he's carried the offensive load for the entire season and that teams focused all their best defensive players on him........but we don't vote and those who do will look at his 7 goals since the all Star break and that could very likely be the deciding factor.

[mikeyman109]

Schneider was playing behind what should be a considered hall of famer, with a winning record on a winning team with a deep defence and a contract no other team wanted a part of except Florida

 

Demko is playing behind Markstron who despite having a solid year this year has not exactly been a Vezina favorite and has a Swiss cheese defense in front of him. he also does not have an untradeable contract.Given the right offer he is who i would trade, only because of his age

 

Despite Markys year this year if we got a great offer for him I would trade Markstrom. He will never have as much value as he does right now, will be 29 and on the decline for most goalies in a couple years and Demko and Di Pietro would be able to carry the load for the next 5-7 years.

[Pears]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'm not disagreeing, at all.  But games played is a huge factor for goalies in the Calder race.  Honestly, I think it goes to Dahlin.  Petey had it sewn up, but completely fell off the cliff in the second half.  For people who watch the Canucks, we can point to the fact that he's carried the offensive load for the entire season and that teams focused all their best defensive players on him........but we don't vote and those who do will look at his 7 goals since the all Star break and that could very likely be the deciding factor.

He might have slowed down a bit in the 2nd half but again, it’s rookie of the Year, not rookie of one part of the season. He’s still 24 points clear of Dahlin and if Pettersson doesn’t run away with the voting then there’s something wrong with the system. 

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Pears said:

He might have slowed down a bit in the 2nd half but again, it’s rookie of the Year, not rookie of one part of the season. He’s still 24 points clear of Dahlin and if Pettersson doesn’t run away with the voting then there’s something wrong with the system. 

I'd say 24 points ahead a dman makes it very very close, if not tips it to Dahlin.  Petey missed a fair number of games though, that will help him.

[Pears]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I'd say 24 points ahead a dman makes it very very close, if not tips it to Dahlin.  Petey missed a fair number of games though, that will help him.

And Dahlin is still 3rd in rookie scoring. The only way injuries should affect Calder voting is if you miss half a season like McDavid did in 2015. He was running away with it before he got hurt. 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 3/29/2019 at 6:18 AM, ItalianCanuck1 said:

Just curious to hear your opinion about Schneider's first NHL stint (when he was called up to play some games w/ Sanford and LaBarbera) and the Demko's one.

 

Do you see similarities or do you think Demko is way more ready than Schneider was when he played his first NHL game vs Calgary?

Demko is a far more structured goalie than Cory ever was or has become.   With the massive pad era behind the NHL, if I had to choose between the two of them (assuming Cory was again 23 years old) I would personally take Demko as goaltending has now become more about a skillset he has a better amount of than just size.     I remain of the opinion, and have from the time I first saw him in college, the Demko has everything in place to be a superstar.    I think by the time Demko is 26 or 27 he will be seen as a legitimate top 10 goalie in the NHL and knocking on the door of Vezina consideration.   Yes, I think he has that potential.

[Kevin Biestra]

30 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Demko is a far more structured goalie than Cory ever was or has become.   With the massive pad era behind the NHL, if I had to choose between the two of them (assuming Cory was again 23 years old) I would personally take Demko as goaltending has now become more about a skillset he has a better amount of than just size.     I remain of the opinion, and have from the time I first saw him in college, the Demko has everything in place to be a superstar.    I think by the time Demko is 26 or 27 he will be seen as a legitimate top 10 goalie in the NHL and knocking on the door of Vezina consideration.   Yes, I think he has that potential.

 

I hope you're right, but I was convinced Fred Brathwaite was going to win a Vezina trophy and that Edmonton was insane to give up on him.  And then some old dude Tim Thomas breaks in and wins two Vezina trophies.

 

I'd say a Cory Schneider in the hand is worth two Rick DiPietros in the bush.

[Rob_Zepp]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I hope you're right, but I was convinced Fred Brathwaite was going to win a Vezina trophy and that Edmonton was insane to give up on him.  And then some old dude Tim Thomas breaks in and wins two Vezina trophies.

 

I'd say a Cory Schneider in the hand is worth two Rick DiPietros in the bush.

I have not a clue why you would invoke those examples but go for it.

 

It has nothing to do about 'hope' or 'right' and all about projection.   Looking at skillset, Demko is off the charts and one of the top three goaltending talents in the game as a prospect without much argument from those who follow the game.   CS was always a high end prospect himself but never talked about outside of his market in quite the same way.   I don't understand how some fans feel a need to not take their top-end prospects for what they are - top end.    

 

Currently in EP40, Demko and Hughes you have arguable a top three of each of G, D and F that for under one season of experience each, few teams can match - perhaps in discussion with five other teams for best outlook.    That is what it is - if the 'worry' that all that potential may not be realized is how you want to look at life, go for it.    As Edmonton is showing the world, potential isn't always going to pay off and so you have examples if you want to stay negative on any player.

Cheers    

[189lb enforcers?]

47 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

I have not a clue why you would invoke those examples but go for it.

 

It has nothing to do about 'hope' or 'right' and all about projection.   Looking at skillset, Demko is off the charts and one of the top three goaltending talents in the game as a prospect without much argument from those who follow the game.   CS was always a high end prospect himself but never talked about outside of his market in quite the same way.   I don't understand how some fans feel a need to not take their top-end prospects for what they are - top end.    

 

Currently in EP40, Demko and Hughes you have arguable a top three of each of G, D and F that for under one season of experience each, few teams can match - perhaps in discussion with five other teams for best outlook.    That is what it is - if the 'worry' that all that potential may not be realized is how you want to look at life, go for it.    As Edmonton is showing the world, potential isn't always going to pay off and so you have examples if you want to stay negative on any player.

Cheers    

Prospect... while others are winning cups and having success in the NHL, at the same age as Demko. It’s all relative, when you suggest things like this and is but one perspective of many. 

 

Having said that, I will defer to an actual expert on the subject of goaltending, yourself. 

[Rob_Zepp]

36 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Prospect... while others are winning cups and having success in the NHL, at the same age as Demko. It’s all relative, when you suggest things like this and is but one perspective of many. 

 

Having said that, I will defer to an actual expert on the subject of goaltending, yourself. 

VERY few goalies have success in NHL at 23.   Very few in this era in NHL.   More common is a situation like Holtby, Binnington or even Markstrom.   

 

Young goalies who win Cups today are in part lucky to be part of great teams versus the reason the team succeeds.   

[189lb enforcers?]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

VERY few goalies have success in NHL at 23.   Very few in this era in NHL.   More common is a situation like Holtby, Binnington or even Markstrom.   

 

Young goalies who win Cups today are in part lucky to be part of great teams versus the reason the team succeeds.   

 

When it comes to goalie talk, there is no question who is the expert here.

 

You played the position at the highest level. You can’t get anymore credible than that on here. 

 

Please post a scouting report on Demko and qualify why you feel he will one day be a top goalie in this league, as you’ve said above here somewhere.

 

I’d appreciate reading what you think about his game and why he will be a stud in the new NHL. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

 

When it comes to goalie talk, there is no question who is the expert here.

 

You played the position at the highest level. You can’t get anymore credible than that on here. 

 

Please post a scouting report on Demko and qualify why you feel he will one day be a top goalie in this league, as you’ve said above here somewhere.

 

I’d appreciate reading what you think about his game and why he will be a stud in the new NHL. 

For Demko, it is all about angles.   His angle management is off the charts sound.   You will almost never see him not square to the shooting option and when you couple that with his really quick (insane for a big man) reflexes, you have most of it right there.   Goaltending for today's NHL comes down to three keys:

• Positional strength (angles)
• Agility (speed to move to take away misdirection plays, tips etc.)
• Mental toughness

Give any goaltending prospect grades in those three areas out of any scale you like (let's use 10 for ease) and being only average in any of those does not a potential star or even superstar make.   For his age (23), he is already solid 8 plus in first one, 7 plus in second and nearing 9 in the third.   That is off the charts in compare to the majority of any other 23 or younger goalie out there and up there with many of today's stars in the position.    

[Westcoasting]

10 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

VERY few goalies have success in NHL at 23.   Very few in this era in NHL.   More common is a situation like Holtby, Binnington or even Markstrom.   

 

Young goalies who win Cups today are in part lucky to be part of great teams versus the reason the team succeeds.   

I can only think of Hart as someone off to an early start. But he had such an amazing junior career that's not really surprising. But yes anymore it seems the days of starting a rookie goalie out are over! Have you had a chance to see much of Hart? What are your thoughts on him so far?

[Rob_Zepp]

17 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

I can only think of Hart as someone off to an early start. But he had such an amazing junior career that's not really surprising. But yes anymore it seems the days of starting a rookie goalie out are over! Have you had a chance to see much of Hart? What are your thoughts on him so far?

Like Hart a lot.   He has faced far more difficult shots than, say, Binnington (who has stats assisted by seeing the lowest level of shot danger in the entire league - in reality his SV% if facing average danger of shot would be about .910 to .915 or so based upon projections).

 

Hart is a classic style and almost a throwback.   I think he is easily the best rookie goalie in the NHL this year, or the past few, who has played more than 20 games and, yes, that includes the STL individual.