With Petey falling off in scoring, do you think Binnington has a chance at winning the Calder? (Votes are cast pre-playoffs)

[stawns]

9 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's just a perfect storm for the 26 yr old "rookie".

 

I mean - he cleared waivers in September...

He cleared waivers in 2017.

He may have cleared more than twice, but at least twice.

Imo - a 26 year old = isn't a "rookie".

 

And he stepped onto one of the better rosters in the league - that happened to be having an absolutely horrible, underachieving, borderline mind-boggling season.

The appearance of him taking them from worst to first is highly misleading imo.

 

Regardless - when a guy is passed over twice by the entire NHL - his "rookie' status ends imo - he's been waiver eligible for years - but could not crack any NHL lineup.

 

Agree completely........rookie status for him is ridiculous.  That said, he's damn good

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah, I just feel like most of the arguments being made either for Petterson or against Binnington wouldn't be made if Petterson was a Blue and Binnington a Canuck.

 

Would anyone around here be trying to disqualify Petterson from Calder voting if he were 26, or if he had cleared waivers?  I doubt it.  On the contrary, I think if he had cleared waivers, people here would be more likely to present that as a reason that he SHOULD win the Calder.

 

And yes, I'd rather have Petterson than Binnington, just because Petterson is probably more of a sure thing going forward.  There seem to be plenty of goalies who have one great year, and only one.  But there really don't seem to be proportionally anywhere close to as many forwards that pull a Joe Juneau or a Jonathan Cheechoo.

 

Goalies seem more capable of pulling a Raycroft, Daren Puppa, Jose Theodore, Jim Carey blaze of glory season and then being ordinary henceforth or even below average the rest of the way.  But you don't see a lot of Denis Maruk 136 point seasons followed by just being decent.  And even less so when it comes to rookies.  Joe Juneau career trajectories are exceedingly rare.

 

As to the all time goalies, I think Roy won three Vezinas.  And I kind of group Roy, Brodeur, Sawchuk and Plante together as about equal.  Honorable mention to Frank Caprice.

 

 

Joe Juneau, now that's a name I've not heard in quite some time.

[coryberg]

 

13 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

It seems like you're taking this personally, and putting words in my mouth.

 

What exactly do you claim my position to be and on what statements of mine are you basing that?

My bad I thought you were the poster that said binnington was the best goalie in the NHL for his 33 games and that Petterson was nowhere near the best in the NHL. Must have mistaken you for another poster.

 

I asked that other guy if he thought binnington would win the vezina in that case (eluding to the fact that its nearly impossible to win a major award without playing more than the 39% of his teams games). He came up with a in depth response of "Not necessarily". So much wisdom in so little words.

 

Somehow when I quoted that poster it must have crossed wires on your account and I asked you if 33 games makes a season. This clearly wasn't aimed at you because you have no clue of what I am talking about and clearly don't have an opinion on the matter. I'm sorry for lumping you in with that guy who implied that binnington was the best and petterson wasn't close. 

[spur1]

Time for Don and Ron to visit the Grand Canyon and take a flying leap. 

[Jaimito]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/don-cherry-binnington-pettersson-canucks-rookie-2019

 

[canuck73_3]

Cherry just wants to see a player nearly as old as him win it. Kidding (sort of) 

[Bertuzzi44ever]

On 4/7/2019 at 8:53 PM, Pete M said:

 

For a rookie to lead his team in goals and points playing 11 games less than the next player...no matter how you look at it, considering the quality of defense, it was hard for this team to score. What EP40 did on and for this team was impressive.  When he wasn't scoring this team did poorly...when he was scoring, this team did well. He was the straw that stirred the drink as a rookie....his value to the team alone should give him the Calder.

 

Peteys numbers and importance to his team is ala Jack Eichel. Thing is teams don’t always win even with superstars because it takes goaltending depth all that crap. Matthews coming in and fooling a lot of people into thinking all you need is a new star center and your set no one cares to look at what else the leafs added in Mitch marner Nylander Babcock and they already had good depth kadri Reilly and most importantly a top five goalie arguably.

 

i just posted Eichels comparable numbers and that he’s technically been better then Matthews in a lot of ways (points per game) I explained in a long long way in another thread just now (all statistics comparison and eye test) and I could see Eichel mcdavid and Petterson in the future the three guys who anchor their teams the most with the least help, let’s just hope they can both have more success then Edmonton.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 4/12/2019 at 10:56 AM, coryberg said:

 

My bad I thought you were the poster that said binnington was the best goalie in the NHL for his 33 games and that Petterson was nowhere near the best in the NHL. Must have mistaken you for another poster.

 

I asked that other guy if he thought binnington would win the vezina in that case (eluding to the fact that its nearly impossible to win a major award without playing more than the 39% of his teams games). He came up with a in depth response of "Not necessarily". So much wisdom in so little words.

 

Somehow when I quoted that poster it must have crossed wires on your account and I asked you if 33 games makes a season. This clearly wasn't aimed at you because you have no clue of what I am talking about and clearly don't have an opinion on the matter. I'm sorry for lumping you in with that guy who implied that binnington was the best and petterson wasn't close. 

 

Do you think playing 39% of a team's games is the same thing for a skater and a goalie?

 

45 games would be an incomplete season for a forward but it's a clear starting goalie in the NHL.

 

Petterson was nowhere near the best player in the NHL this year.  Binnington was the league's best goalie for the games he played.

 

As to potentially winning the Calder versus the Vezina or any other major awards, they are different trophies.  You get only one shot at the Calder, the first year you play more than the rookie minimum.  Then it's gone.  Different voters can interpret the criteria as they see fit, but it's an award where I see a shortened season leaving a candidate more eligible for the Calder than they would be for something like the Hart or Norris.

 

There is some support for this in the number of first place votes Connor McDavid received for the Calder despite playing only 48 games.  Likewise, Pavel Bure was 3rd in rookie scoring when he won the Calder, but like McDavid had demonstrated himself the best player over his sample.  His sample was just large enough that the sliding scale pushed him over the edge in voting, whereas McDavid came close but would have probably needed 55 or 60 games to win the award.

 

As to Binnington winning the Vezina?  I'm not completely opposed to it.  Again, there's a sliding scale, and less than 40 games is probably fatal, especially with the second best goalie close in average stats.  I think 30 games is enough for a goalie where you at least start comparing him to the others and see if he is so much better than the rest that the differential could overcome the games played factor.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Kevin Biestra

[Westcoasting]

On 4/11/2019 at 5:29 AM, coryberg said:

So he gets the Vezina too?

The Gm's decide on the Vezina, media chooses the Calder. Two different thought processes and knowledge so the outcome is never a given.

[Cup2022]

11 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Cherry just wants to see a player nearly as old as him win it. Kidding (sort of) 

As per usual Don is full of sh#$$#t

[coryberg]

2 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

The Gm's decide on the Vezina, media chooses the Calder. Two different thought processes and knowledge so the outcome is never a given.

Wasn't aware of that. 

 

Never the less it's a moot point. He simply doesn't have enough games played for any major trophy (well maybe the Masterson for perseverance).

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Cup2022 said:

As per usual Don is full of sh#$$#t

Cherry likes the attention he generates but he knows his stuff. I had the pleasure of talking hockey with him for a couple of hours way back when and he is exactly how he comes across on TV. I was a Habs fan and he was the ex-coach of the Bruins so no love loss. Still I went away with a smile on my face as he was a fountain of hockey history and information. No doubt in my mind that he tabbed Binnington as the Rookie of the Year because the kid took his team to the playoffs, EP40 didn't. Cherry is a bottom line guy. I would also point out that Cherry was on the Petterssen bandwagon all season. It kinda reminds me of when Dryden came up and won the CUP with the Habs and the MVP is I remember right. He came back the following year and won the Rookie of the Year. 

 

If EP40 hadn't tailed off to close the season I doubt this conversation takes place. Binnington comes in and takes St. Louis from the basement to playoffs. If he takes the Blues deep I suspect he will win the Calder. 

[qwijibo]

6 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Cherry likes the attention he generates but he knows his stuff. I had the pleasure of talking hockey with him for a couple of hours way back when and he is exactly how he comes across on TV. I was a Habs fan and he was the ex-coach of the Bruins so no love loss. Still I went away with a smile on my face as he was a fountain of hockey history and information. No doubt in my mind that he tabbed Binnington as the Rookie of the Year because the kid took his team to the playoffs, EP40 didn't. Cherry is a bottom line guy. I would also point out that Cherry was on the Petterssen bandwagon all season. It kinda reminds me of when Dryden came up and won the CUP with the Habs and the MVP is I remember right. He came back the following year and won the Rookie of the Year. 

 

If EP40 hadn't tailed off to close the season I doubt this conversation takes place. Binnington comes in and takes St. Louis from the basement to playoffs. If he takes the Blues deep I suspect he will win the Calder. 

The votes are already in. Binnington’s performance in the playoffs counts for nothing. 

[stawns]

The more I watch, the more at peace I am if Petey us the runner up to Binnington, regardless of my disagreement with him being a rookie.  The bottom line is that he is considered a rookie, and he's every bit the impact player Petey is, at least.  He looks borderline unbeatable.

[philtbc829]

With Biddington taking the Blues to the conference final, he is a shoe in for the calder now, even more so if the Blues make it to the finals

[hockeyking]

16 minutes ago, philtbc829 said:

With Biddington taking the Blues to the conference final, he is a shoe in for the calder now, even more so if the Blues make it to the finals

Votes are cast before the start of the playoffs.

[Brad Marchand]

17 minutes ago, hockeyking said:

Votes are cast before the start of the playoffs.

Really wish this could be pinned to the main page of the forum.

[iinatcc]

8 hours ago, philtbc829 said:

With Biddington taking the Blues to the conference final, he is a shoe in for the calder now, even more so if the Blues make it to the finals

I want to say something but I'm pretty much going to sound like a broken record at this point

[Westcoasting]

5 hours ago, iinatcc said:

I want to say something but I'm pretty much going to sound like a broken record at this point

Lmao! Some people just don't get it

[Chris12345]

5 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

Lmao! Some people just don't get it

I'll say it....voting stations are closed folks.