Popular Post CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 I think the majority of Jim Benning hate or dim Jim thoughts are primarily around these two moves. Ollie Joulevi over Tkachuk is by now definitely a miss, but that's like saying why didn't the team draft Barazal or Pastarnak or whatever. The smaller dealers are absurdities. OMG he added an extra 6th round pick to a trade that has a 3% chance of being a 3rd line hockey player for 400 games. So to Louie, in order to be angry about this deal you have be in favor of choosing an alternative. There were a lot of solid forwards available during free agency that year. Ladd, Okoposo, Nielsen, Backes and Lucic. I am probably forgetting someone else. Andrew Ladd 177 games and 71 pts 15 min TOI, missed 69 games in 3 years .40 pts per game 7 years at 5.5 million David Backes 201 games 91 pts 15min TOI, missed 43 games in 3 years .45 pts per game 5 years at 6 million Frans Nielsen 203 games 109 pts 16min TOI missed 16 games in 3 years .53 pts per game 6 years at 5.25 million Louie Eriksson 196 games 76 pts 16min TOI missed 48 games in 3 years .38pts per game 6 years at 6 million Milan Lucic 243 games 104 pts 15min TOI missed 3 games in 3 years .42pts per game 6 years at 6 million Kyle Okposo 219 games 118 pts 16min TOI missed 27 games in 3 years .53pts per game 7 years at 6 million I wanted Okposo. I am pretty sure he didn't want to come here. "Little Things Louie" has the best defensive game by far out of all of these forwards. I just want to ask which of these deals actually look good to you? Which contract would you take on willingly? I think Louie has always looked excellent with Horvat. I think he will be very solid next year if he gets the chance. So then the answer in hindsight, you should not have signed anyone. There would've been a riot had Jim passed with cap space and so many solid players available. People just love to complain. Signing a player didn't cost an asset, ITS NOT YOUR MONEY (so who cares about the actual dollars), didn't create a cap crunch, and no Brendan Gaunce and Niklas Jensen or Hunter Shinkaruk or Jonathan Dahlen didn't miss out on blooming into a cant miss 1st line hockey player because HE STOLE their minutes. Now onto Jake. The argument is Ehlers or Nylander would've been a better choice. There were two options and a lot of debate, so this one was Jim going with his gut rather than best player available. Ehlers 7 years at 6 million 36 playoff games 00000 goals and 14 assists Nylander 7 years at 7 million 15 playoff games 3 goals and 7 assists They are both 20 goal 40 assist players in the regular season on absolutely stacked teams with elite line mates. They are both tissue paper soft. The question is what are they worth in a trade right now with those contracts and their playoff numbers? If both were free agents, would you dedicate 7 and 6 million worth of cap for 7 years? Jake may not be a playoff performer either. He may not be a 40 point player next year. He may not become Raffi Torres, BUT if he is then I would prefer that 100% over either. The main point is that the alternatives aren't worth much. It's about perspective. It's not about the decision by itself. It is about the alternative choices that could have been made. ECON 101 opportunity cost. The lost opportunity in this case isn't worth complaining about. 4 3 3 1 1 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 If LE was as physical as most of those compareables, you’d probably have more discussion. Geenious Jim, because he somehow thought Gagme and Delzaster were going to fix the PP, etc and for his age-gap replacathon Plan. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post EB43 Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 We need more Eriksson’s to be a contender, and get Gagne back 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: If LE was as physical as most of those compareables, you’d probably have more discussion. Geenious Jim, because he somehow thought Gagme and Delzaster were going to fix the PP, etc and for his age-gap replacathon Plan. I agree with both of you. I don't want Ehlers or Nylander for their cost, and softy play. I don't like JB's philosophy of filling gaps (age and talent) with so many middling UFA's either. We certainly need a sprinkling of support for our young guys to develop to their best potential, but (IMO) JB has accumulated too many of such guys. Jake is not Ehlers or Nylander, but he still needs to use his size to be more impactful physically more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 It’s fine to throw out UFA names as could haves, but did any of them actually consider Vancouver as an option. Otherwise you’re just 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper007 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: If LE was as physical as most of those compareables, you’d probably have more discussion. Geenious Jim, because he somehow thought Gagme and Delzaster were going to fix the PP, etc and for his age-gap replacathon Plan. But weren't they Top 10, 2 seasons ago? They didn't contribute as much as the team would have liked, but the PP wasn't the problem. This season, the power play wasn't as good, but neither of them were on the team for very long, so we can't really blame those 2 now can we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: If LE was as physical as most of those compareables, you’d probably have more discussion. Geenious Jim, because he somehow thought Gagme and Delzaster were going to fix the PP, etc and for his age-gap replacathon Plan. Or that they were the only options available on the market given the contracts he was willing to offer. It's not like JB was in a position to get the pick of the litter either. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr.53 Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Good post. I think people a lot of times get lost in the result and forget about the context. Hindsight is always 20/20. Your point about if we didn't sign anyone people would have called for JBs head is 100 percent accurate. And it turns out, all those free agents weren't so good. I remember I was a Virtanen over Ehlers and Nylander guy. I can admit that both those 2 are better players, but, Jake brings something to this young core that we need. Size and speed. He'll never be the offensive players they are, but I like Jakes game, and i can see him becoming a solid winger for Horvat or Gaudette whose extremely hard to play against and can pot a good number of goals. Virtanen's problem isn't his game, it's where he was drafted. If Virtanen was drafted 23rd overall and Boeser at 6, things would be a lot more in line, so I give JB a pass for that. Boeser pick cancels out Virtanen pick. Edited April 16, 2019 by Mr.53 1 1 7 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Bottom line for me is that he needed to deal with the Sedin's not being able to be moved (rightfully so I guess) and wait for them to retire. So, he tried to band aid it together and fill the age gap from the cup contender era. After the 2011-2012 season it should have been burned to the ground. The lack of prospects ready to slot in now comes from those first couple/few years of trying to band aid it together. Also the Desjardins and Tortorella decisions aren't looking all that great in hindsight. I was wrong about WD I thought it would be better. Edited April 15, 2019 by Borvat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Backes, Ladd, and Oksposo have better defensive game than Lou. And are all better playoff performers. They are not AFRAID to initiate contact and are good in scrums and the post whistle stuff in playoff games. Lou is about as passive as they come.The extra intangibles they bring make their salaries more palatable. Backes 140 hits, Ladd hasn't been the same since his knee injury but used to be a gamer, Oksposo had 87 hits and scores more goals every season (which is what we supposedly hired Lou to do). All 3 are bigger players that I would take as honest 3rd 4th liners. In the playoffs I would take those 3 over Lou. The Louie Eriksson experiment is over, 10 goals a year on the 4th line checking duties is not what he's suited for. Gaunce and McEwen are better suited or a free agent like Reaves was from last year, Louie I don't think we can trade but we can use him as a good player coach in Utica. Cull would love him. Virtanen needs a playoff series bad to shut up the Ehlers comparison. Have you been watching any playoffs? Dam tough sledding in many of these games. Jake would be hard to contain if they're going to put the whistles away. Jake could eat up a lot of space and is a magnet for defenders, thus giving other players more ice and chances. Did you see Nylanders brain fart giveaway last game?What a joke that was. And it'd not just Tkachuk now, there's probably 3 or 4 more players that are proving themselves in the playoffs over OJ. But w/e. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tomatoes11 Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) I think Dim Jim is the worse GM we had in ages but it’s not because of Eriksson or JV. Far from it. I actually have very little issue with Eriksson besides the same reason I had issue with Miller. I don’t think we need these guys in a rebuilding team that hasn’t completely tore down yet. They do nothing except ruin how high our pick is. Thankfully Eriksson hasn’t actually won us games or given us unnecessary loser points like Miller did. How much Miller helped demko or markstrom is either non-existent or completely unnoticeable so that 6 million was a waste just like Eriksson is. That said, Its just cap space though, so it’s not the end of the world. How he handles the rest of our assets is absolutely horrible though but it shouldn’t come as any surprise considering who his mentor/teacher was, Peter Chirelli. We seriously need to move him before what happened in Edmonton happens. Edited April 15, 2019 by Tomatoes11 1 5 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post apollo Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 It was a no brainer to go after Loui that year. Everyone and their dog thought he'd light it up with the twins. Can't blame Jim for the signing... You can argue he's been much better than Lucic and Backes this year. Hopefully no mistakes are made this free agency year. 4 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ohmy Posted April 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 15, 2019 49 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: I think Dim Jim is the worse GM we had in ages but it’s not because of Eriksson or JV. Far from it. I actually have very little issue with Eriksson besides the same reason I had issue with Miller. I don’t think we need these guys in a rebuilding team that hasn’t completely tore down yet. They do nothing except ruin how high our pick is. Thankfully Eriksson hasn’t actually won us games or given us unnecessary loser points like Miller did. How much Miller helped demko or markstrom is either non-existent or completely unnoticeable so that 6 million was a waste just like Eriksson is. That said, Its just cap space though, so it’s not the end of the world. How he handles the rest of our assets is absolutely horrible though but it shouldn’t come as any surprise considering who his mentor/teacher was, Peter Chirelli. We seriously need to move him before what happened in Edmonton happens. Yeah your right we suck! Definetly don't have one of the most exciting up and coming teams nor do we have a top 5 farm system at the moment despite not picking in the top 3 of the draft. Should have stayed with Dave Nonis, he was a keeper. Time to fire Benning and blow up the team again. Trade Petey, Boes, Bo, and Quinn before we ruin there value. Sad times for Canuck fans. 1 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 38 minutes ago, sonoman said: It’s fine to throw out UFA names as could haves, but did any of them actually consider Vancouver as an option. Otherwise you’re just You completely missed the point. its not that those other players wouldve or could have signed. Its that no matter whom was signed there would have been pitch forks screaming about how bad of a deal it is. All those same UFAs that year have not lived up to their contract not even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said: Backes, Ladd, and Oksposo have better defensive game than Lou. And are all better playoff performers. They are not AFRAID to initiate contact and are good in scrums and the post whistle stuff in playoff games. Lou is about as passive as they come.The extra intangibles they bring make their salaries more palatable. Backes 140 hits, Ladd hasn't been the same since his knee injury but used to be a gamer, Oksposo had 87 hits and scores more goals every season (which is what we supposedly hired Lou to do). All 3 are bigger players that I would take as honest 3rd 4th liners. In the playoffs I would take those 3 over Lou. The Louie Eriksson experiment is over, 10 goals a year on the 4th line checking duties is not what he's suited for. Gaunce and McEwen are better suited or a free agent like Reaves was from last year, Louie I don't think we can trade but we can use him as a good player coach in Utica. Cull would love him. Virtanen needs a playoff series bad to shut up the Ehlers comparison. Have you been watching any playoffs? Dam tough sledding in many of these games. Jake would be hard to contain if they're going to put the whistles away. Jake could eat up a lot of space and is a magnet for defenders, thus giving other players more ice and chances. Did you see Nylanders brain fart giveaway last game?What a joke that was. And it'd not just Tkachuk now, there's probably 3 or 4 more players that are proving themselves in the playoffs over OJ. But w/e. This couldn't be more wrong. Backes, Ladd and Okposo indeed hit more than Eriksson. You don't have to hit a lot to be good defensively. Eriksson is easily better than them all defensively. In any case completely irrelevant. You missed the point. If any of those players were signed for their current contract terms. You and everyone else would be upset that their production doesn't match their contract. Its not that Okposo is slightly better than Eriksson. Its that they are all not worth their contracts. It's like complaining that you wanted a slightly less ugly girlfriend. SHE IS STILL UGLY! makes no difference. I am not sure what you are trying to say about Jake. I am saying that Nylander and Ehlers haven't performed in the playoffs. They are on long and expensive contracts. If they were free agents today, I would most likely pass on them both and try to sign a defender for a similar cap hit. In my mind Virtanen doesn't look bad relative to these two even if his regular season numbers aren't good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 34 minutes ago, Mr.53 said: Good post. I think people a lot of times get lost in the result and forget about the context. Hindsight is always 20/20. Your point about if we didn't sign anyone people would have called for JBs head is 100 percent accurate. And it turns out, all those free agents weren't so good. I remember I was a Virtanen or Ehlers and Nylander guy. I can admit that both those 2 are better players, but, Jake brings something to this young core that we need. Size and speed. He'll never be the offensive players they are, but I like Jakes game, and i can see him becoming a solid winger for Horvat or Gaudette whose extremely hard to play against and can pot a good number of goals. Virtanen's problem isn't his game, it's where he was drafted. If Virtanen was drafted 23rd overall and Boeser at 6, things would be a lot more in line, so I give JB a pass for that. Boeser pick cancels out Virtanen pick. I think Jake still has a chance to be Raffi Torres. Raffi was a high pick who had raw tools and was fierce hitter. I would take one Raffi over 5 Ehlers or Nylanders in the playoffs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: This couldn't be more wrong. Backes, Ladd and Okposo indeed hit more than Eriksson. You don't have to hit a lot to be good defensively. Eriksson is easily better than them all defensively. In any case completely irrelevant. You missed the point. If any of those players were signed for their current contract terms. You and everyone else would be upset that their production doesn't match their contract. Its not that Okposo is slightly better than Eriksson. Its that they are all not worth their contracts. It's like complaining that you wanted a slightly less ugly girlfriend. SHE IS STILL UGLY! makes no difference. I am not sure what you are trying to say about Jake. I am saying that Nylander and Ehlers haven't performed in the playoffs. They are on long and expensive contracts. If they were free agents today, I would most likely pass on them both and try to sign a defender for a similar cap hit. In my mind Virtanen doesn't look bad relative to these two even if his regular season numbers aren't good. My point is that in the playoffs those other players won't disappear like 21 does on so many nights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said: If LE was as physical as most of those compareables, you’d probably have more discussion. Geenious Jim, because he somehow thought Gagme and Delzaster were going to fix the PP, etc and for his age-gap replacathon Plan. Its not about the comparison. Its about the fact that you and everyone else would've been disappointed with any of those players. Gudbranson hits like a truck when he wants to and fights better than most in the league. He was one of the least liked players on this team. What makes you think Lucic, Backes or Ladd would be liked considering their huge contracts and extreme lack of production. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) Just now, Hairy Kneel said: My point is that in the playoffs those other players won't disappear like 21 does on so many nights. who cares you are not making the playoffs with this roster and those players. The only one playing in the playoffs from that group is Backes and he was scratched the first game. None of those players have even come close to living up to their contracts. None! Edited April 15, 2019 by CaptainLinden16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Backes was hitting GREAT last game and they won. Yeah all too expensive , but 21 is useless for us going forward. Time to get rid of him or bury him in the minors. He's not a bottom 6 player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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