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Arrow 1983

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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Probably because we didn't have a Phil Kessel or a Phaneuf willing to waive to sell. Hence my point re: saleable assets.

Salable assets.:ph34r:

Now from who, and where, have I heard that before?

 

You were there and should know. 

This exchange(s) ends here. 

 

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1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Salable assets.:ph34r:

Now from who, and where, have I heard that before?

 

You were there and should know. 

This exchange(s) ends here. 

 

I have no idea what you're referring to....:blink:

 

Go ahead and pull you're "I have no argument chute' then...

 

You can't sell what you don't have. Irrational ranting about it, doesn't change it.

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1 hour ago, D-Money said:

There's no magic formula, it's just get the best players you can, and get as many as you can

Ding ding ding!  This is what it boils down to. But leaving it there wouldn't be any fun, for a hockey message board.

And part of that "best players" formula is landing a top free agent, mixed with luck with grabbing a player or players that exceeds their value and surprises, especially in the playoffs, ie. Foegele in Carolina, or Klingburg in Dallas, or Schwartz in St. Louis.  Mixed with lottery luck, which we probably will never have, so luck (and skill) in picking gems later on.

 

I applaud this OP for the work put into it. But in the end, JB might shoot for the stars, but whomever he pulls down to Earth, we simply need quality, in any position other than center or goaltending, but even then, if a deal falls in your lap you take it. The point is, you shuffle the other players around whomever you get, trade, wave if you have to, to accommodate those new, better, acquisitions. No matter who that is. We deal with it. You just hope we have more over-achieving signings than under-acheiving signings.

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19 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The only movable 'vet' of any value from the previous core, that arguably 'should' have been moved and wasn't, is Tanev. (And you'll get no argument from me that he shouldn't have been).

 

The #proper rebuild crowd needs to realize we had very little saleable assets that weren't in fact moved. We weren't in the same place as an organization as TOR or more recently NYR. 

I agree in your opinion of those comments aGent

 

What I have a hard time dealing with is not asking

 

To me, and it is an old argument , our veterans to a large part were selfish

 

as is Edler.....I just see too many examples of players around the league waiving to not think that

 

But I think the discussion is done and pointless

 

But what isn't done and what CDC needs to get over, is that favorites can't be traded

 

or have no value...……..this is ridiculous …...but the reason is even more ridiculous

 

as, people just think adding stars through trades or UFA, will cure all, and the fact is

 

That, that costs cap, money, or assets, or all 3. People need to embrace the rebuild and get excited

 

for that. 

 

I also think that Benning needs to be aggressive in getting more picks this year, adding a couple of 6 rounders doesn't do it.

 

Not even going to suggest how, but there are ways, and means......but for me, the growth has to come from within

 

and that is a strong draft, and a solid farm team.

 

You can't be having people walk away or requesting trades, because that weakens the depth or the organization....

 

It also indicates, you did not do your homework, either in the coach or the players, or again both.....

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4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I think we could be a playoff team next year, if we went out and signed 1 UFA forward, And that is actually what I think Benning should do;

Go out and sign one forward...……...sign a RW for Bo's line

 

Here is my thinking....

 

I think people see our U25 talent on the team and say we have elite talent, which is true, but our underlaying depth is not that of atop 10 playoff team.

 

Now the Reason, I do say adding one puts us in the top 16 is, we added Hughes, who I think changes up our zone exits a lot...….

 

We did npt have Hughes all season to the end, and were 9 points out of a playoff spot......Imo...1 UFA and Hughes, gives you the 9 points

 

That and lesser injuries......but I think we would be in the hunt...……..

 

In saying that, picking a Zegras, Krebs, Boldy  offensively would pay huge dividends in 2 year...…...as would drafting another RHD in the second round.

 

We keep pushing for the playoffs, and that is fine, but teams do not normally go from 21 OA into the top 10 OA, in 1 or 2 years...…..we are still in the process

I’m with you here.

 

I’m repeating myself from comments elsewhere, but when I look at the pipeline and the current composition of the NHL roster, I’m heavily leaning towards free agency and impact trades to build the team rather than the optimistic approach of hopes and prayers that the prospects become impact players. 

 

Depending on the draft of course, I’d be inclined to dangle Virtanen, Demko, Hutton, Goldy, and several other not affiliated with the Triangle of Death, to acquire playoff-type players through trade and deep dive into free agency to fill out the rest.

 

I am unconvinced that our prospect pool has the bulk nor the composition to supplement the current core with anything so impactful that it’s worth waiting for or developing.

 

The sluggish start to the rebuild of the ‘stale’ core here and Benning’s age-gap replace-athon Plan’s impacts have left their impacts on the system, IMO. 

 

Free agency, of all sorts, combined with bold trades, could propel the NHL roster into playoff contention while the core, including Horvat, is still young... which is kind of the point of a rebuild, isn’t it? 

 

This concept goes againt my principles and post history, but in this case, I think it might be necessary. 

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31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Falling in the lottery system has been somewhat detrimental to this team’s current composition, for sure, but the management didn’t try to be there in the first place, unlike TO, for instance. 

 

We should also objectively look at Clutch-tuck in Calgary and wonder, wtf, what a line we’d have. 

Yes, it is looking that way for sure. But...if they hadn't fallen in the draft...PLD. (2016)

 

31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

You make your own luck, as the saying goes. If you want to win prizes at the lottery, buy a ticket, not Miller. 

They did make their won luck in the most 'non tanking year' by picking (2015) Boeser and Gaudette.  (2017)Pete and (2018)Quinn are other examples of 'making their own luck.' 

 

All the luck in the world could have put the Canucks in the top 3 of the 2014 draft.  Tanking would have been Gillis' decision, during the season prior to the draft.  Still, the current management managed to 'make their own luck' by picking (shoulda kept) McCann, Demko, Tryamkin and (probably shoulda kept) Forsling.  I'm not a big fan of Jake's, but in the long run, he might end up better than the 4-10 picks.

 

31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

For TO, Marner wasn’t a lotto pick; that was a deliberate selling off of expensive, star vets to rebuild through the draft with high picks, exactly what the Canucks refused to do with their old, star, core. Instead, a supernova; the death of a core, save Edler. 

 

This forum has long played Pin the Tail on the Donkey while assigning blame for the refusal of this team to engage the dreaded R-word. Sometimes it’s Aquaman, sometimes it’s Linden, Benning, the media, the fans, etc. It’s entertaining to imagine where this roster might be with its new core if it were managed differently, even somewhat similar to what TO did the year they landed Marner, but, “it wouldn’t have been fair to the Sedins”, as had Linden put it. 

 

Water under the bridge, but lotto luck isn’t what held this team back, it was management, IMO. 

I don't think their decisions effected the draft all that much, as they made up for it 'by making their won luck.'  I think trading off 2nd rounders and a couple of promising prospects were bigger mistakes.

 

Yeah, water under the bridge.

 

31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

As for the OP, I have not heard the fan-sentiment which has deduced that the forward group, on a rebuilding team nonetheless, is handicapping this roster. So, I disagree with the premise, entirely. 

Agreed.  Really need better than Goldy, Roussel, Leivo or whoever on Bo and Pete's lines.  I don't mind Pearson and a healthy Baer for now, but hopefully a trade or draft pick (over the next couple of years) will do the trick.

 

The defense needs a Trouba type and a hope and a prayer that Juolevi/Woo/Rathbone become very good dmen.

 

Really got my fingers crossed for the upcoming draft.

 

 

 

Hoping management can

31 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

What I have a hard time dealing with is not asking

Who says they didn't?

 

And it's not 'selfish' to exercise a contract clause you negotiated for, earned and took a discount for, to have.

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I agree in your opinion of those comments aGent

 

What I have a hard time dealing with is not asking

 

To me, and it is an old argument , our veterans to a large part were selfish

 

as is Edler.....I just see too many examples of players around the league waiving to not think that

 

But I think the discussion is done and pointless

 

But what isn't done and what CDC needs to get over, is that favorites can't be traded

 

or have no value...……..this is ridiculous …...but the reason is even more ridiculous

 

as, people just think adding stars through trades or UFA, will cure all, and the fact is

 

That, that costs cap, money, or assets, or all 3. People need to embrace the rebuild and get excited

 

for that. 

 

I also think that Benning needs to be aggressive in getting more picks this year, adding a couple of 6 rounders doesn't do it.

 

Not even going to suggest how, but there are ways, and means......but for me, the growth has to come from within

 

and that is a strong draft, and a solid farm team.

 

You can't be having people walk away or requesting trades, because that weakens the depth or the organization....

 

It also indicates, you did not do your homework, either in the coach or the players, or again both.....

Your post would be perfect for CDC about 3, 4, even 5 years ago.  Especially the bolded part.

All that "growth from within" was supposed be happening in the last three years. And we have had that, to be fair, to some degree. Woo, Madden, Lockwood, DePietro. But not enough effort was made to strip it down and stock up when they should have, with even more promising prospects on the verge. Refused to weaponize the cap, by taking on bad contracts for picks, and then turn around and sign Louie and Gags anyways :wacko: . Gambling a high risk game that cast offs and plugs from other teams would find new life here and make Francesco $ in the playoffs. Instead of the tried and true method of building from the draft.  Then when we do luck out with a Pettersson, a Boeser, we would also have more depth, more peers their own age, and maybe even had the luxury of flipping a few of them for good veteran talent.

 

So you may be right, we do need even more good prospects, but I'm a little concerned that Bo will never play in the playoffs for this team while in his prime. Sad for him if that's the case. The team management may have done "right" by the Sedins in milking their run as long as possible but the cost was maybe doing Horvat wrong. I think it will hit Bo hard if we miss again next year. Not to mention Petey and Boeser.

 

But It is What it Is. We are where we are. We almost now have to go all in on the rebuild on the fly. We've gone down this road too far. To start now, finally, stripping the team down, shedding veterans (some only just acquired this season!) and starting to fill the cupboards now, when we have Petey, Brock playoff ready,  and Bo and Markstrom reaching their peak, is kind of a disjointed way to build a team.

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3 hours ago, D-Money said:

Pittsburgh Penguins had 4 players who made 45.2% of the $71.4M cap when they won in 2016 (Malkin, Crosby, Letang, and Kessel). There's no magic formula, it's just get the best players you can, and get as many as you can.

 

Chicago is interesting, because when they won the cup in 2010, Brian Campbell was a UFA signing making $7,142,875. The salary cap that season was set at $56.8 million, so Campbell's contract was 12.6% of the cap. Under the projected $83M cap next year, that would be $10.44M. Campbell ended up needing to be moved to make way for young guys getting raises, but his presence on the team likely helped younger players like Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson develop into such fine defensemen.

 

If Karlsson is interested in playing for Vancouver, we'd be fools for not pursuing him. He'd immediately become the best defenseman we've ever had. He'd also fill the most obvious hole in the organization: top-pairing RHD. And he'd help insulate and develop younger guys like Hughes, Stetcher, and Woo.

 

And you can't just say "we're not ready", or "wait a couple years", because defensemen of his level don't come around often in free agency, and even when they do they won't necessarily be interested in your team. The last elite D-man to move teams as a UFA was Ryan Suter, and his decision came down to Nashville (the team that drafted him), or Minnesota (his home-town team) - Vancouver wasn't even a consideration.

 

 

Was Pittsburgh’s really 45.2%?  You’re checking the AAV’s right?  I’m too lazy to double check but that seems a lot higher than what I remember.  The only guy that makes close to 10 million is Malkin (9.5).   Crosby is at 8.7, while their other top guys are in the 7-8 range.

 

When Chicago won their cups, Toews, Kane, Seabrook, and Keith were in the 5-6 million dollar cap range.  Ditto for LA.  Doughty was at 7, but guys like Kopitar, Gaborik, Quick, Carter, Richards, and Doughty were in the 4.5-6 million range.

 

If I’m doing my ballpark math right, that cap percentage for elite players works out to around the 8.5-9 million range in today’s NHL .......which is approximately what I’m hoping ends up being the highest that we pay for a guy like Pettersson or Hughes if he warrants elite level money.    Anything north of 10, and I suspect that teams will start getting into trouble.  

 

You look at some of the teams that are really up and coming right now (Colorado, Carolina, etc.)  and they all seem to have their elite talents at cost controlled cap hits.   On the other hand, teams that have players earning over 10 million dollars have NOT won cups.  

 

From 2010-2015, Crosby and Ovechkin were the clear cut two best players in the game a s yet their teams took a backseat to LA and Chicago.  After Kane, Toews, and Kopitar got their new 10+ million dollar contracts however, those teams stopped winning cups and stopped being relevant forces in the playoffs.  Meanwhile, since the cap increased, Pittsburgh and Washington’s once overly expensive contracts to their elite players were now relatively cost effective......which helped Pittsburgh and Washington invest in the necessary depth to support their elite talents.

 

Which leads me to my point:  Getting Karlsson would be awesome, but would it decrease our window?  Would we pretty much have to win a cup during our “new window” (the Karlsson Signing to when Pettersson and Hughes Sign long term deals).   If we pay 12 million to Karlsson, then guys like Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, etc., etc., will NOT come cheap....and those guys will NOT be willing to take discounts of any kind. 

 

Thats why Im interested to see what becomes of Toronto.  They paid a premium price for Matthews and predictably enough, their other young players wanted to be paid at a premium (Matthews, Nylander).  Marners will want the same.  

 

IF Toronto goes deep into the playoffs next year, and in the following 2-3 years, then I’ll completely admit fault and will admit that I was wrong about the “Toronto model.”

 

If I was a betting man however, I think “The Toronto model” leads to teams being a perennial bridesmaid.  A good 2nd/3rd round team that ultimately gets defeated by the cup winning team that has cost controlled elite talent + depth.

 

I have no interest in being this generation’s version of the San Jose Sharks.  I want the Canucks to be this generation’s version of 80’s Islanders/Oilers, 90/00’s Wings/Devils, and 10’s Hawks/Pens.

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Going to Say our problem is goal scoring which is our forwards

 

Three Players scored over 20 goals, no one scored 30

Petey 28g

Horvat 27g

Brock 26

JAKE VIRTANEN 15 [4th on our list]

Grandlund 12 [5th]

 

Gonna say our problem is goal scorin, and with this year being record number of 100pts player and our top best point players were 66 and 61 we need more goals!

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4 hours ago, aGENT said:

I think it's hilarious when people compare us to contenders and 'how far we are away'.

 

Is ANYBODY actually expecting a contender here NEXT year...? :blink:

 

I expect the team to keep improving, which means becoming a legit bubble/wild card team and not the pretender one we were this year.

 

Add a solid UFA at forward from the good player but not top end, elite (no Panarins or Karlssons) 2nd tier (Lee, Nelson, Dzingel etc) that can eventually replace Baer. Trade for a 2nd pair RD (Ceci would be cheap, a guy like Ristolainen, more expensive or maybe we see if we can snag one of TBL's or CAR's prospects etc), attempt to sign Stralman and move Tanev.

 

Give Juolevi a couple months to get back up to speed in Utica and look to move Hutton (if injuries haven't already made space).

 

Beyond that, keep drafting and developing well, there are no short cuts. I'd wager we're getting a solid future top 6 F (hopefully Boldy or Zegras IMO) this June and hopefully some other future pieces later in the draft.

 

Slow and steady progress to 'contender' over the next few years... This doesn't all get fixed in one summer.

 

 

I haven’t seen anyone say we should be contenders next year, but it’s very reasonable to expect we should be a playoff team. Once Boeser and Demko are signed there’s no reason why we wouldn’t use that cap space to improve the team. 

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14 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Was Pittsburgh’s really 45.2%?  You’re checking the AAV’s right?  I’m too lazy to double check but that seems a lot higher than what I remember.  The only guy that makes close to 10 million is Malkin (9.5).   Crosby is at 8.7, while their other top guys are in the 7-8 range.

Yup.

 

Malkin ($9.5M) + Crosby ($8.7M) + Letang ($7.25M) + Kessel ($6.8M after retention) = $32.25M

The cap was $71.4M in 2015-16, so that is 45.168% of it.

 

14 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

On the other hand, teams that have players earning over 10 million dollars have NOT won cups.  

Again, there's no magic number. If we use the example above, this is what those contracts would be using the same percentage of cap under the projected $83M:

 

Malkin (11.04M) + Crosby ($10.11M) + Letang ($8.43M) + Kessel ($7.9M) = $37.48M

 

With the cap at where it is now, teams should be able to have a couple of $10M players. The key is always having those guys perform at an elite level, and having enough young/cheap talent coming in to surround/complement them with. Malkin/Crosby/Letang were really struggling as a core, until Kessel, Schultz, Bonino, Dumoulin, and Rust were added. Then when Guentzel was added in 2016-17, he helped absorb the loss of Letang for the 2017 playoffs. But now that the core has aged, Bonino has moved on, the rest got raises, and another wave of complimentary youth seems to be lacking, Pittsburgh is struggling again.

 

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9 minutes ago, Pears said:

I haven’t seen anyone say we should be contenders next year, but it’s very reasonable to expect we should be a playoff team. Once Boeser and Demko are signed there’s no reason why we wouldn’t use that cap space to improve the team. 

I keep seeing people post something to the effect of 'how far away we are from contending/compared to contending teams we're watching in the playoffs' and then suggesting we should go sign Karlsson and Panarin etc to 'fix' the situation in both this and many other threads. 

 

That seems to suggest to me that they think we should be attempting to at least be a LARGE step closer to 'contention' over this summer. YMMV.

 

I don't believe my post suggested we shouldn't try to improve this summer.

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11 hours ago, xereau said:

Huge upgrade that costs ZERO picks or players, is replacing Baumgartner.  This team could really use a new defensive system that involves puck pressure, puck possession, and generating offense from the back end.  Now that Quinn is here, and appears to be the real deal, hoping that this is the biggest change this off season.

Yeah we used to be a fast fore checking team that forced a lot of turn overs and scored on a reasonable amount of them and penalties  that would do the same and our team D was better but not that consistent when top names went down to injury, especially in the playoffs when we needed depth but had none thanks to trade everything to win it now with no or little farm depth to step in and then expect louie to save us single handedly which  was stupid beyond belief  and then kicked him to the curb when he couldn't. The system was fun to watch but for whatever reason it changed and since green arrived it's been said by mgmt and green they want to get back to that so maybe it'll happen but that style of system tends to increase injury risk and with no depth as we found out over the years but that's the past and at least we have prospects and getting more but team D has to be there too so there's  not as much pressure to score a lot more goals but if benning can get enough depth to support  that system then we're fine. 

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12 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said:

I try not to write to much on these types of forums, but I believe there is a fallacy going through the Canuck fan base. I believe that this core of forwards does not need a top 6 or even 2 top six forward to be competitive. I believe that the only problem this team has is on there defence. I believe 2 spots on defence need to be filled 1 must be filled immediately and 1 after Christmas or at the trade dead line dependent on where we are in the standings.

You may notice that I said I believe many times in that statement and here is way, if you go through the stats of team defencemen as I did over the weekend, 1 very glaring thing is spotted almost immediately, we don't get enough points from our defence. This is not a new fact this has been a problem since 2011-12 season and has not been addressed until Quinn Hughes. I'm not a believer that Hughes will be the problem fixer next season or even the next few seasons to come, like any rookie I would expect highs and lows for this kid. Id like to point out before you guys do I think we have a future star in Quinn but I emphasize future as I would Pettersson or Boeser will be future stars for this team. In my opinion all three of these kids have lots of growth still ahead of them and Hughes has the most especially to become a dynamic offensive defencemen who can control the pace of the game and who can lead our offence.

Assume I am wrong and Hughes becomes this stellar defenceman we all hope he will become next season then what I am about to propose is completely useless. But assume I am closer to being right about his progression. Assume Hughes puts up a 40-50 point season most would agree that would be successful and yet that would mean at 40 pts he would match the top 30 defencemen in the league with 50pts top 13 in the league my point, there are not many who can amass these point totals. 40-50 pts for Hughes next season wouldn't be successful it would be outstanding, impressive and unbelievable unrealistic. How about 30 pts that must be more realistic and yet only 57 defencemen got to 30pts this season. Top rookies this season Dahlin 44pts, Heiskanen 33pts. Doable yes but are you willing to risk a season or 2 or 3 on it.

 

The proposal, 

I argue that the only player worth signing this off season is Erik Karlsson. You all saw that coming. However, but my argument is go all in 7 year 12mill per, and now I must deal with the cap thankfully I ran it on Capfriendly using this years cap ceiling and it worked leaving room for error by not increasing the cap for next season if reported correctly is coming in around 83 million.

I have Edler at 2 years and 6 mil. I could see Edler wanting to pair up along side his countryman. Boeser 6year 7mill very comparable to other players of his talent. Demko at 2 years 1.5 mill show me contract. Leivo and Shenn at 1 or 2 year show me contracts. Olli I have making the team as my number 6 or 7 depending on Shenns play.

 

Now why this works short term and long term these 23 players come in giving the team cap space of 695k at the current cap ceiling of 79.5 million. Why is this important, first bonusses to the rookies we don want to be paying them in the following years and counting to next years cap hit. Second I mention earlier we need to acquire a second piece after the Christmas or a the trade deadline. That piece in my opinion is a defensive defencemen a Hamhuis type player for the playoffs and possibly long term I would argue this would depend on Juolevi or Schenns play during the regular season. That's the short term. 

Long term Spooner is off the books after next season for a possible pay increase to Markstrom and Tanev if we resign him as well.

Year 2 Petterson ,Hughes and Juolevi Contracts, off the books are Sutter, Pearson, Baertschi and Edler total 17.492 million

Year 3 off the books Erikson, Beagle and Roussel total 12 million at this point no top rookies to resign, Long term the Cap actually looks good under Bennings Management and it allows them to go after a guy like Karlsson this season. The productivity from your back end With Karlsson and Edler on your top pair should relieve the pressure from Quinn on you second pairing and giving him a partner like Tanev should allow Hughes to take greater risks and when Tanev gets injured Schenn jumps in for 25-30 games as a number 4 guy which also relieves pressure off of Stecher who can play that number 5 roll and bump up to 4 if shenn cant handle the duties. A more Productive back end should automatically mean a more productive Forward group.

 

And there follows the logic 1 top end Defenceman can put everyone else into there proper placing and change the whole dynamic of your offence one day Hughes may be that guy but logically it wont be next season but next season could be major step for him in seeing how an offensive defensive system works.

 

Roussel, Antoine
$3,000,000
Edit
LW
M-NTC
UFA - 3
VAN
Pettersson, Elias
$925,000
C, LW
RFA - 2
VAN
Boeser, Brock
$7,000,000
RW
RFA
VAN
Pearson, Tanner
$3,750,000
LW
UFA - 2
VAN
Horvat, Bo
$5,500,000
C
UFA - 4
VAN
Virtanen, Jake
$1,250,000
RW
RFA - 1
VAN
Baertschi, Sven
$3,366,666
LW
UFA - 2
VAN
Sutter, Brandon
$4,375,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
VAN
Eriksson, Loui
$6,000,000
LW, RW
NTC
UFA - 3
VAN
Leivo, Josh
$950,000
LW
RFA
VAN
Beagle, Jay
$3,000,000
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
VAN
Spooner, Ryan
$3,100,000
C, LW
UFA - 1
 
VAN
Gaudette, Adam
$916,666
C
RFA - 1
 
 
 
 
Left Defense Right Defense Goaltender
VAN
Edler, Alexander
$6,000,000
D
UFA
Karlsson, Erik
$12,000,000
D
UFA
VAN
Markström, Jacob
$3,666,667
G
UFA - 1
VAN
Hughes, Quintin
$916,666
D
RFA - 2
VAN
Tanev, Christopher
$4,450,000
D
M-NTC
UFA - 1
VAN
Demko, Thatcher
$1,500,000
G
RFA
undefined
Schenn, Luke
$1,500,000
D
VAN
Stecher, Troy
$2,325,000
D
RFA - 1
 
VAN
Juolevi, Olli
$863,333
D
RFA - 2
VAN
Biega, Alex
$825,000
D
UFA - 1
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     

 

I'm not sure of the masses you're talking about.  I think the majority of the fans understand that the dcorp is where the work needs to be done and JB agress.  That said, I think they need a hguy who can play top 6, with Petey, who can provide some protection and space for Petey to do his magic.  That was painfully obvious to Flames fans with Johnny hockey, against the AVs.

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25 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

Yeah we used to be a fast fore checking team that forced a lot of turn overs and scored on a reasonable amount of them and penalties  that would do the same and our team D was better but not that consistent when top names went down to injury, especially in the playoffs when we needed depth but had none thanks to trade everything to win it now with no or little farm depth to step in and then expect louie to save us single handedly which  was stupid beyond belief  and then kicked him to the curb when he couldn't. The system was fun to watch but for whatever reason it changed and since green arrived it's been said by mgmt and green they want to get back to that so maybe it'll happen but that style of system tends to increase injury risk and with no depth as we found out over the years but that's the past and at least we have prospects and getting more but team D has to be there too so there's  not as much pressure to score a lot more goals but if benning can get enough depth to support  that system then we're fine. 

when they were healthy, that hard forechecking, dog on a bone was the style they were playing.  Itwas only when decimated by injuries that they played a more defensive style.

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54 minutes ago, Pears said:

I haven’t seen anyone say we should be contenders next year, but it’s very reasonable to expect we should be a playoff team. Once Boeser and Demko are signed there’s no reason why we wouldn’t use that cap space to improve the team. 

if there's anything that this first round shows us, its that all you need to be a contender is to actually get into the playoffs.  From there, anything can happen.

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3 hours ago, aGENT said:

The only movable 'vet' of any value from the previous core, that arguably 'should' have been moved and wasn't, is Tanev. (And you'll get no argument from me that he shouldn't have been).

  

The #proper rebuild crowd needs to realize we had very little saleable assets that weren't in fact moved. We weren't in the same place as an organization as TOR or more recently NYR. 

not to mention that their #properrebuild has yielded nothing ut disappointed expectations.  Tonight will either mark a turning point or the point where they need to sell off one or two of their high profile players to fill other needs that they ignored in their rebuild.  

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2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I agree in your opinion of those comments aGent

 

What I have a hard time dealing with is not asking

 

To me, and it is an old argument , our veterans to a large part were selfish

 

as is Edler.....I just see too many examples of players around the league waiving to not think that

 

But I think the discussion is done and pointless

 

But what isn't done and what CDC needs to get over, is that favorites can't be traded

 

or have no value...……..this is ridiculous …...but the reason is even more ridiculous

 

as, people just think adding stars through trades or UFA, will cure all, and the fact is

 

That, that costs cap, money, or assets, or all 3. People need to embrace the rebuild and get excited

 

for that. 

 

I also think that Benning needs to be aggressive in getting more picks this year, adding a couple of 6 rounders doesn't do it.

 

Not even going to suggest how, but there are ways, and means......but for me, the growth has to come from within

 

and that is a strong draft, and a solid farm team.

 

You can't be having people walk away or requesting trades, because that weakens the depth or the organization....

 

It also indicates, you did not do your homework, either in the coach or the players, or again both.....

I have a hard time believing that JB didn't do due diligence on that.  He's proven himself very capable at pretty much every turn and there's no reason to think he didn't ask.

 

Who is he supposed to move for these high picks?  The players he'd have to move to get those picks are part of the young core and would be detrimental to what they are trying to accomplish.  People need to get over this "draft picks" mantra.  Obvioulsy you build your core through the draft, as much as yiu can, but you fill in the other spots with trades and UFA.

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