Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said: No high road where this pos is considered: So, your take is that Trump himself has to be involved before there is an effort to collude with the Russians? I disagree. I suppose this means that you would be okay with someone from the Sanders campaign soliciting Russian assistance, just so long as Bernie himself isn't involved? Yeah, that hunting crap is inexcusable (lots of stronger adjectives could be used, too, but I am too tired and pissed off with my day to get into venting on that garbage). To your question, no. I'm saying that the guy I quoted was referring to Sr's actions, and my response was to that end. Someone from the campaign doing something inappropriate is still wrong, but if done independently cannot be blamed on the candidate, which was the context of the discussion. However, in this case, all there is is intention. Had the Russian not gotten cold feet, or whatever reason there was for not concluding the deal, Jr could have backed out. We'll never know. Then, it comes down to whether it matters. If the "evidence" being traded is real, does it matter if the source was Russian, British, American, or anyone else? If the evidence is falsified, I would think that a bigger deal, since that gets into fraud or libel and stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Kragar said: Yeah, that hunting crap is inexcusable (lots of stronger adjectives could be used, too, but I am too tired and pissed off with my day to get into venting on that garbage). To your question, no. I'm saying that the guy I quoted was referring to Sr's actions, and my response was to that end. Someone from the campaign doing something inappropriate is still wrong, but if done independently cannot be blamed on the candidate, which was the context of the discussion. However, in this case, all there is is intention. Had the Russian not gotten cold feet, or whatever reason there was for not concluding the deal, Jr could have backed out. We'll never know. Then, it comes down to whether it matters. If the "evidence" being traded is real, does it matter if the source was Russian, British, American, or anyone else? If the evidence is falsified, I would think that a bigger deal, since that gets into fraud or libel and stuff like that. I disagree with pretty much all of this. Firstly, I don't believe for a second that Sr himself was unaware of the Trump tower meeting. the fact that he dictated Jr's subsequent statement and then lied about it, reinforces my belief, as does the fact that Manafort and Jared were both there. Secondly, I disagree that the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful mitigates the situation at all. The fact is, the Trump campaign solicited help from a foreign government in order to further their chances of winning the election. Finally, we are in complete disagreement on whether it "matters". Attempting to unethically (if not illegally) influence something as important as a Presidential election absolutely matters. IMHO. Edited February 23, 2020 by RUPERTKBD 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I disagree with pretty much all of this. Firstly, I don't believe for a second that Sr himself was unaware of the Trump tower meeting. the fact that he dictated Jr's subsequent statement and then lied about it, reinforces my belief, as does the fact that Manafort and Jared were both there. Secondly, I disagree that the fact that the attempt was unsuccessful mitigates the situation at all. The fact is, the Trump campaign solicited help from a foreign government in order to further their chances of winning the election. Finally, we are in complete disagreement on whether it "matters". Attempting to unethically (if not illegally) influence something as important as a Presidential election absolutely matters. IMHO. (FYI, using your format verbiage to keep things straight for the both of us... I'm not mocking you in any way) Firstly, believing is a whole nother thing. You can believe what you want. You might be right, you might be wrong. I can't say either way what happened, so it doesn't much matter. Secondly, it does mitigate it to some degree. One can plan and take steps to commit a crime, but if it doesn't happen, there is no crime. The fact is, by all appearances, that the campaign was not helped in any way by that situation. Finally, I might be able to come around on the last point. Like referred to earlier, I am tired and out of sorts after a long day of fixing my washing machine. Of course, all of this stuff with what Jr did would be a non-issue had Hillary not disobeyed the subpoena and had the emails deleted and hard drives and other devices destroyed in the first place. IMHO, that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Bidens lead in SC has dissapeared and Sanders leads in delegates. If the other candidates don't shape up, Super Tuesday will be their downfall. The hill link Sanders scores decisive victory in Nevada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 A little more context regarding competitive primaries. It's going to be hard for the MSM to ignore him now. When Bernie faced off against Clinton, he lost Iowa and Nevada. https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-becomes-first-candidate-democrat-republican-win-popular-vote-all-3-three-early-1488638 BERNIE SANDERS BECOMES FIRST CANDIDATE, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, TO WIN POPULAR VOTE IN ALL 3 THREE EARLY VOTING STATES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 13 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: Bidens lead in SC has dissapeared and Sanders leads in delegates. If the other candidates don't shape up, Super Tuesday will be their downfall. The hill link Sanders scores decisive victory in Nevada Yep, all depends on Bloomberg at this point, I think. Not sure if he is on the ballot for SC or not, but Super Tuesday will show whether his plan was a waste of money or not. I wonder what Bernie thinks of Bloomberg's spending, sharing his wealth by overpaying so many campaigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Kragar said: Yep, all depends on Bloomberg at this point, I think. Not sure if he is on the ballot for SC or not, but Super Tuesday will show whether his plan was a waste of money or not. I wonder what Bernie thinks of Bloomberg's spending, sharing his wealth by overpaying so many campaigners. Good question. The whole "wealth is evil" trope is silly, IMO. (Especially considering that Sanders is no pauper himself) It's what you do with the wealth that matters. Gates, Buffet, Cuban.....and yes, Bloomberg.....these are guys that use their wealth to help others. Bone Spurs, OTOH, uses charity funds to buy pictures of himself.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Good question. The whole "wealth is evil" trope is silly, IMO. (Especially considering that Sanders is no pauper himself) It's what you do with the wealth that matters. Gates, Buffet, Cuban.....and yes, Bloomberg.....these are guys that use their wealth to help others. Bone Spurs, OTOH, uses charity funds to buy pictures of himself.... https://www.thegivingtrump.com/ I never looked into it before, so thank for inspiring me to check things out. The man has done some interesting things with his money. Maybe some credit is due here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Kragar said: https://www.thegivingtrump.com/ I never looked into it before, so thank for inspiring me to check things out. The man has done some interesting things with his money. Maybe some credit is due here? Maybe....but there have been several reports of Trump's "donations" actually coming from his charitable foundation and not from his own pocket. Sadly, thegivingtrump doesn't clarify that one way or the other. What is clear however, is my earlier point about the painting: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/27/michael-cohen-testimony-trump-painting-foundation-money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 @Kragar: Further to my previous taking of "the low road" when it comes to Donald FF Trump Jr...... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trumps-son-gets-permit-allowing-him-to-hunt-alaska-grizzly-bear/ar-BB10hKPN?li=AAggFp4 I was a Grizzlies fan before they moved to Memphis, but all of a sudden, I find myself cheering for them again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 20 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: @Kragar: Further to my previous taking of "the low road" when it comes to Donald FF Trump Jr...... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trumps-son-gets-permit-allowing-him-to-hunt-alaska-grizzly-bear/ar-BB10hKPN?li=AAggFp4 I was a Grizzlies fan before they moved to Memphis, but all of a sudden, I find myself cheering for them again.... Yeah, I saw that too. OTOH, if permits are allowed, does not that mean it is government sanctioned? IIRC, the game killed in Africa was donated to villagers. Despite the callousness of the first pic you sent, and others of his I have seen, I haven't gotten the impression that he is otherwise sustainably careless... although I did see one story where a permit was allowed for a threatened species of sheep, so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Kragar said: Yeah, I saw that too. OTOH, if permits are allowed, does not that mean it is government sanctioned? IIRC, the game killed in Africa was donated to villagers. Despite the callousness of the first pic you sent, and others of his I have seen, I haven't gotten the impression that he is otherwise sustainably careless... although I did see one story where a permit was allowed for a threatened species of sheep, so there's that. Certainly it is....trophy hunting is legal in may areas, even Canada, if I'm not mistaken. That doesn't change my opinion that trophy hunters (and not just FF Jr) are scumbags and I'm cheering for the animal in 100% of the cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 52 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Maybe....but there have been several reports of Trump's "donations" actually coming from his charitable foundation and not from his own pocket. Sadly, thegivingtrump doesn't clarify that one way or the other. What is clear however, is my earlier point about the painting: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/27/michael-cohen-testimony-trump-painting-foundation-money There are links near the top that separate the two, although only for a short period for personal stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: Certainly it is....trophy hunting is legal in may areas, even Canada, if I'm not mistaken. That doesn't change my opinion that trophy hunters (and not just FF Jr) are scumbags and I'm cheering for the animal in 100% of the cases. Dang, we found something else to agree on, outside of hockey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 I criticize Bone Spurs for his constant lying, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/joe-biden-claims-he-was-arrested-in-south-africa-in-the-1970s/ar-BB10hSJm?li=AAggFp4 Quote In at least three campaign appearances over the past two weeks, Joseph R. Biden Jr. has told a similar story as he tries to revive his campaign in states with more diverse voters. On a trip to South Africa years ago, he has said, he was arrested as he sought to visit Nelson Mandela in prison. “This day, 30 years ago, Nelson Mandela walked out of prison and entered into discussions about apartheid,” Mr. Biden said at a campaign event in South Carolina last week. “I had the great honor of meeting him. I had the great honor of being arrested with our U.N. ambassador on the streets of Soweto trying to get to see him on Robbens Island.” Mr. Biden referred to his own arrest twice more in the next seven days, including at a campaign stop here on Tuesday where he spoke of getting arrested in South Africa between efforts to coax his wife to marry him. That proposal occurred in 1977, both Bidens have said. But if Mr. Biden, then a United States senator from Delaware, was in fact arrested while trying to visit Mr. Mandela, he did not mention it in his 2007 memoir when writing about a 1970s trip to South Africa, and he has not spoken of it prominently on the 2020 campaign trail. A check of available news accounts by The New York Times turned up no references to an arrest. South African arrest records are not readily available in the United States. Andrew Young, a former congressman and mayor of Atlanta who was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations from 1977 to 1979, said that he had traveled with Mr. Biden over the years, including to South Africa. But Mr. Young said that he had never been arrested in South Africa and expressed skepticism that members of Congress would have faced arrest there. “No, I was never arrested and I don’t think he was, either,” Mr. Young, now 87, said in a telephone interview. Now there's no proof that Biden wasn't arrested (or even detained) in South Africa, but this doesn't look good, especially considering his many gaffes and other "questionable" anecdotes. (More in the link) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Kragar said: Dang, we found something else to agree on, outside of hockey I think very few would disagree with us on this.... ....that being said, I seem to recall in an old thread about the trophy hunting dentist (look it up) there were CDC members defending it on the basis of "conservation" and being good for the local economy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I criticize Bone Spurs for his constant lying, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/newspolitics/joe-biden-claims-he-was-arrested-in-south-africa-in-the-1970s/ar-BB10hSJm?li=AAggFp4 Now there's no proof that Biden wasn't arrested (or even detained) in South Africa, but this doesn't look good, especially considering his many gaffes and other "questionable" anecdotes. (More in the link) All this talk about hunting, and when you said gaffes ( my phone showed the end of the post first), I thought he was hunting giraffes at some point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I said after the last Democratic debate that the candidates made a tactical error by concentrating on Michael Bloomberg.... All along, candidates other than Bernie Sanders (and to an extent, Elizabeth Warren) have been trying to promote themselves as the best candidate to beat Donald Trump. Now it looks like they're going to have to shift their strategy to try and portray themselves as the one who can beat Bernie for the nomination. It may be too late: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483944-rivals-worry-sanders-building-insurmountable-super-tuesday-lead The good news for Bernie's challengers is that as the front runner, he's under more scrutiny and has to answer tougher questions. He's already made a problematic statement about Fidel Castro, but the thing that the "moderate" candidates will likely hammer away at is his inability to explain to Anderson Cooper how he plans to pay for the promises he's been making: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Bernie always had a soft spot for Fidel. Florida Dems in uproar after Sanders’ Cuba comments https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/florida-dems-uproar-sanders-cuba-comments-117213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I said after the last Democratic debate that the candidates made a tactical error by concentrating on Michael Bloomberg.... All along, candidates other than Bernie Sanders (and to an extent, Elizabeth Warren) have been trying to promote themselves as the best candidate to beat Donald Trump. Now it looks like they're going to have to shift their strategy to try and portray themselves as the one who can beat Bernie for the nomination. It may be too late: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/483944-rivals-worry-sanders-building-insurmountable-super-tuesday-lead The good news for Bernie's challengers is that as the front runner, he's under more scrutiny and has to answer tougher questions. He's already made a problematic statement about Fidel Castro, but the thing that the "moderate" candidates will likely hammer away at is his inability to explain to Anderson Cooper how he plans to pay for the promises he's been making: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html I want Sanders to win. He exemplifies the pendulum swinging dramatically in the direction opposite it did with trump. In 4-8 years it will or should start balancing out more to the centre In the meantime America runs the risk of its democracy being replaced by a true oligarchy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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