[Speculation] Lucic says he would like to play here

[theo5789]

3 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Well Arizona took 1 year of Datsyuk to move up in the draft & get Jacob Chychurn. Getting a young top 4 D who played right away is pretty worthwhile. 

 

Like maybe you can take on a contract & offer our 40th overall to back into the 1st round? 

 

No matter what it is, I just have doubts our management group has ever really considered going that route. Which we should, its a great way to get assets at a time when we can afford to do it.

They moved up 4 spots and gave up their 2nd while taking on that one year. Detroit pick Cholowski who didn't step in right away but looks like a fine dman. They used that 2nd rounder to pick up Filip Hronek (who has almost half the points Chychrun has had in 125 less games). We wouldn't have been able to match this Arizona offer that looks very good for Detroit for a cap dump trade (maybe be cautious of trading for Lucic with Holland at the helm).

 

We don't know if a team is willing to offer up the deal you're suggesting, especially if it's only a 1 or 2 year cap dump. We would have to take on something more significant if we expect a more significant return and it would appear many don't want to go that route to hamper or future RFA signings.

 

So it all comes down to finding the right partner and being the lowest cost for the team moving on from the cap dump. So like I said, it takes two to tango and we don't know if Benning was involved in some of the conversations and maybe it just never came to fruition because Benning wanted more.

 

Even the Hossa cap dump didn't amount to much for Arizona (3rd liner, bottom 4 dman, and a 3rd, while giving up a 3rd line forward, a couple of minor leaguers, a decent prospect drafted in the 3rd round and a 5th round pick). Teams like Arizona should be looking a lot better considering they've been weaponizing their cap space, but not much has come of it in the grand scheme of things.

 

The Marc Savard deal in 2015 only netted a 2nd round pick.

 

The returns aren't spectacular and you are freeing up a team from their mistakes or helping them build a better team while only possibly improving yours by taking a lottery ticket.

[shiznak]

On 6/10/2019 at 6:40 AM, aGENT said:

You don't know what those players will be in a few years. Gaudette, Virtanen and Lind could all be very much deserving of protection by then. Even if they're 'only' top 9 players.

 

You simply don't reduce your flexibility if you don't need to.

If Benning was truly interested in bringing him over, don’t you think he thought about the risk of Lucic not dropping his NMC for the ED or else he wouldn’t even think about acquiring him.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I'd totally be for that if we can get a good asset. Doubt they'd give up Foote, but that would be a homerun if we could pry him away.

 

Well Arizona took 1 year of Datsyuk to move up in the draft & get Jacob Chychurn. Getting a young top 4 D who played right away is pretty worthwhile. 

 

Like maybe you can take on a contract & offer our 40th overall to back into the 1st round? 

 

It was Datsyuk, 16th overall for 

 

20th overall, 53rd overall and a forward prospect.  

 

Not you, but a lot of other posters are under the illusion that teams would line up with their outstretched arms, holding 1st round picks for us to take players off their hands. 

It doesn’t work like that. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, babalu said:

I agree. Tampa, Vegas, and Toronto are better targets to try to use our cap space to acquire assets. The more I think about it the more I think we should stay away from Lucic. I feel he may be a toxic personality to add to our team.

That makes zero sense, he’s praised by all former and current teammates. What are you basing this on, a gut feeling? 

[Smashian Kassian]

21 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

They moved up 4 spots and gave up their 2nd while taking on that one year. Detroit pick Cholowski who didn't step in right away but looks like a fine dman. They used that 2nd rounder to pick up Filip Hronek (who has almost half the points Chychrun has had in 125 less games). We wouldn't have been able to match this Arizona offer that looks very good for Detroit for a cap dump trade (maybe be cautious of trading for Lucic with Holland at the helm).

 

We don't know if a team is willing to offer up the deal you're suggesting, especially if it's only a 1 or 2 year cap dump. We would have to take on something more significant if we expect a more significant return and it would appear many don't want to go that route to hamper or future RFA signings.

 

So it all comes down to finding the right partner and being the lowest cost for the team moving on from the cap dump. So like I said, it takes two to tango and we don't know if Benning was involved in some of the conversations and maybe it just never came to fruition because Benning wanted more.

 

Even the Hossa cap dump didn't amount to much for Arizona (3rd liner, bottom 4 dman, and a 3rd, while giving up a 3rd line forward, a couple of minor leaguers, a decent prospect drafted in the 3rd round and a 5th round pick). Teams like Arizona should be looking a lot better considering they've been weaponizing their cap space, but not much has come of it in the grand scheme of things.

 

The Marc Savard deal in 2015 only netted a 2nd round pick.

 

The returns aren't spectacular and you are freeing up a team from their mistakes or helping them build a better team while only possibly improving yours by taking a lottery ticket.

But that's the position your in. You don't have assets to trade & your not desireable enough to get free agents without overpaying. The one area you do have to add assets is cap space, sure your helping someone out but your getting something back to do it.

 

Get a 2nd round pick for taking on a year of a contract, that's a good asset. You could use that asset in a trade & try to get something better if you don't want to just make the pick.

 

Arizona only took on 1 year of Datsyuk, for them Chychurn was a player who was falling, who they probably had ranked higher. So it became worthwhile to give up the picks & take the deal to make that move. DET probably felt confident Cholowski was there guy & were looking to trade back & get something. Worked out well for them, but as you said the 2nd rounder is a lotto ticket it just fortunately worked.

 

Definitely comes down to the right partner. I heard a clip on the radio of Darren Dreger talking about how there are around 30-35 contracts teams could be looking to move, really seems like there will be potential to make these kind of deal this summer. Its possible they've considered making such moves in the past, but personally I have my doubts its really been of interest.

[Smashian Kassian]

8 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

It was Datsyuk, 16th overall for 

 

20th overall, 53rd overall and a forward prospect.  

 

Not you, but a lot of other posters are under the illusion that teams would line up with their outstretched arms, holding 1st round picks for us to take players off their hands. 

It doesn’t work like that. 

For sure it won't be easy, 1st round picks have only become move valuable in the salary cap era.

 

But I would be surprised if there wasn't some kind of opportunity this summer to add a good asset via taking on a contract.

 

Maybe we won't find the right fit, maybe we will, but I'd like them to atleast try & explore that. As I don't think they've really considered it in the past (going off times the question has been posed to them & the moves they have made). I could be wrong obviously but that's just my feeling on it with this regime. 

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

But that's the position your in. You don't have assets to trade & your not desireable enough to get free agents without overpaying. The one area you do have to add assets is cap space, sure your helping someone out but your getting something back to do it.

 

Get a 2nd round pick for taking on a year of a contract, that's a good asset. You could use that asset in a trade & try to get something better if you don't want to just make the pick.

 

Arizona only took on 1 year of Datsyuk, for them Chychurn was a player who was falling, who they probably had ranked higher. So it became worthwhile to give up the picks & take the deal to make that move. DET probably felt confident Cholowski was there guy & were looking to trade back & get something. Worked out well for them, but as you said the 2nd rounder is a lotto ticket it just fortunately worked.

 

Definitely comes down to the right partner. I heard a clip on the radio of Darren Dreger talking about how there are around 30-35 contracts teams could be looking to move, really seems like there will be potential to make these kind of deal this summer. Its possible they've considered making such moves in the past, but personally I have my doubts its really been of interest.

The 2nd is less of a lotto with a good scouting team. If we had to give up a 2nd on top of taking on a cap dump, Benning would be ridiculed.

 

The Savard example was taking on two years for a 2nd rounder. The more recent deals have not seen value as high in return. Even the Bickell trade while it netted them Teravainen who's excellent in hindsight actually cost a 2nd and 3rd round pick back in return. Can you imagine giving up picks to take on a cap dump? Teravainen at the point was not proven at all and may have very well been a Baertschi (who is decent enough), but that wouldn't have satisfied those who complain about the Baertschi deal.

[Smashian Kassian]

20 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

The 2nd is less of a lotto with a good scouting team. If we had to give up a 2nd on top of taking on a cap dump, Benning would be ridiculed.

 

The Savard example was taking on two years for a 2nd rounder. The more recent deals have not seen value as high in return. Even the Bickell trade while it netted them Teravainen who's excellent in hindsight actually cost a 2nd and 3rd round pick back in return. Can you imagine giving up picks to take on a cap dump? Teravainen at the point was not proven at all and may have very well been a Baertschi (who is decent enough), but that wouldn't have satisfied those who complain about the Baertschi deal.

I don't think he would. If he gave up a late 2nd & it ended with us getting Soderstrom or Seider or someone like that I think people would be happy.

 

Toronto took on Lupul & got Jake Gardiner. Colorado took on Orpik & gave up a 2nd (47th) to get a starting goalie. That's pretty good move considering teams give up 2nd's+ for up & coming backups. After Chicago won there first cup Atlanta got Andrew Ladd for a 2nd & a prospect. Montreal just got Joel Armia last year for taking Steve Mason.

 

If you could do something like that & someone that can legitimately play in your top 6 or something that would be great. Package it with our 2nd or maybe Hutton/Virtanen. I don't think those guys have that value alone though. Or even if its an Armia type trade or getting a draft pick that we could package.

 

Sure they haven't all worked out like the greatest example, but its still an avenue to look down for a team needing assets & needing to improve. This summer there should be opportunity. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Smashian Kassian

[babalu]

1 hour ago, VancouverHabitant said:

That makes zero sense, he’s praised by all former and current teammates. What are you basing this on, a gut feeling? 

Not necessarily referring to team mates relations. Just his past comments and attitude:

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bruins-lucic-rips-vancouver-after-bar-fight/

[shiznak]

1 hour ago, babalu said:

Not necessarily referring to team mates relations. Just his past comments and attitude:

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bruins-lucic-rips-vancouver-after-bar-fight/

Not sure you know the whole story, here.

 

He had every right to say those things, after what he and his family went through after the 2011 finals win.

 

The guy was unprovoked by some drunk tough guy, while he was just enjoying the night out in his own hometown.

Edited June 13, 2019 by shiznak

[babalu]

1 hour ago, shiznak said:

Not sure you know the whole story, here.

 

He had every right to say those things, after what he and his family went through after the 2011 finals win.

 

The guy was unprovoked by some drunk tough guy, while he was just enjoying the night out in his own hometown.

Fair enough. Bringing in Lucic to play a 4th line roll for the Canucks all in all just seems like a terrible idea to me and I hope it doesn't happen.

[King Heffy]

16 hours ago, shiznak said:

Not sure you know the whole story, here.

 

He had every right to say those things, after what he and his family went through after the 2011 finals win.

 

The guy was unprovoked by some drunk tough guy, while he was just enjoying the night out in his own hometown.

What's the excuse for the handshake line?  You think that's acceptable behaviour for our kids to emulate too?  Bottom line is Lucic is a classless piece of garbage, on and off the ice.

Edited June 14, 2019 by King Heffy

[JM_]

10 hours ago, mll said:

They have players coming up through the system already - Bouchard, Benson, Yamamoto etc.  They just aren't yet established.  Holland is not starting from scratch.  8th overall will get added to that pool of prospects.  

 

He's not thinking of high draft pick rather continuous progress.  The team has to grow and improve but you can't fix it in one off-season. 

 

thats true, they have a a couple of promising prospects, but not many so he probably does want to hang on to the 8th. Also after next season their cap space really opens up again. 

 

Thinking of it from this way now i'm convinced the idea is for them to tank hard for 1 more year. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Borvat]

14 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

You'd rather keep rolling Eriksson and his pathetic compete level out there? Lucic is one of the top 5 tough guys in the game, he hits like a truck and would potentially come with an asset like Puljujarvi. Plus, there's no way in hell Seattle claims Lucic with a cap hit of $6M and an actual salary of NINE MILLION ANUALLY. Lucic waives his NMC for the expansion draft no problem. The only issue is that extra year but Puljujarvi is worth it IMO. I'd even throw in Goldobin if they want a roster player to replace PoolParty with. 

I don't equate moving Eriksson with having to take Lucic. 

 

I don't see the value in paying a heavy weight who can't PK or play defense, especially with TG's demands of his players being reliable defensively - or they sit.

 

- Foot speed is unquestionably an issue

- Looks disinterested on too many nights

- Although he is still considered a heavy weight that is respected in a fight the game has evolved to require the ability to keep up with the flow and offer more than just the ability to fight. 

- His hands are not what they were if they ever really were.  Look at his giveaway vs takeaway numbers over the past number of years.  He does not handle the puck well and if he turns it over is a liability on the back check.  If he gets it in tight and gets the shot off he is a decent asset.   

- Can not PK or play in a reliable shut down role - skating does not allow it.

- I don't see him as a leader I would want around the younger players.  I believe Edmonton (Chiarelli) thought that was part of the package he would bring but I don't sense Edmonton see's him as part of their future leadership group or why would they deal him. (and they could use some leadership)

- $6MM for the above over the next 4 years while you are trying to sign younger (performing) players to reasonable contracts.  

 

I just don't see the reason to do this.  Sign Schenn for $1MM and put MacEwen on the fourth line.  If you need a goon get one on the cheap.  Just my opinion. 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Borvat

[VIC_CITY]

5 hours ago, Borvat said:

I don't equate moving Eriksson with having to take Lucic. 

 

I don't see the value in paying a heavy weight who can't PK or play defense, especially with TG's demands of his players being reliable defensively - or they sit.

 

- Foot speed is unquestionably an issue

- Looks disinterested on too many nights

- Although he is still considered a heavy weight that is respected in a fight the game has evolved to require the ability to keep up with the flow and offer more than just the ability to fight. 

- His hands are not what they were if they ever really were.  Look at his giveaway vs takeaway numbers over the past number of years.  He does not handle the puck well and if he turns it over is a liability on the back check.  If he gets it in tight and gets the shot off he is a decent asset.   

- Can not PK or play in a reliable shut down role - skating does not allow it.

- I don't see him as a leader I would want around the younger players.  I believe Edmonton (Chiarelli) thought that was part of the package he would bring but I don't sense Edmonton see's him as part of their future leadership group or why would they deal him. (and they could use some leadership)

- $6MM for the above over the next 4 years while you are trying to sign younger (performing) players to reasonable contracts.  

 

I just don't see the reason to do this.  Sign Schenn for $1MM and put MacEwen on the fourth line.  If you need a goon get one on the cheap.  Just my opinion. 

Hey, I'm all for trading Eriksson for a better return than Lucic + but I definitely think we're a better team with Lucic and Puljujarvi than we are with Eriksson. 

[Borvat]

9 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Hey, I'm all for trading Eriksson for a better return than Lucic + but I definitely think we're a better team with Lucic and Puljujarvi than we are with Eriksson. 

I have never heard the return would be Lucic + Puljujarvi from any credible source.  Puljujarvi would make it more palatable.  It doesn't change the facts regarding Lucic and the problems with Lucic I see as I listed above. I like the thought of Lucic circa 2011 I just don't see nearly the same player and the game has gotten even faster.

 

If Lucic was a $2MM - $3MM cap hit/salary sure but only if his NMC also went away or was waived as part of the deal.    Again, I am not on the Lucic train nothing against him just don't see the reward worth the risk and contract.  TG will not play players who can't play decent defensively - they sit or are in the dog house.

 

I am hopeful we can part with one without obtaining the other - problem for  potentially a bigger problem.  

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Borvat

[VIC_CITY]

41 minutes ago, Borvat said:

I have never heard the return would be Lucic + Puljujarvi from any credible source.  Puljujarvi would make it more palatable.  It doesn't change the facts regarding Lucic and the problems with Lucic I see as I listed above. I like the thought of Lucic circa 2011 I just don't see nearly the same player and the game has gotten even faster.

 

If Lucic was a $2MM - $3MM cap hit/salary sure but only if his NMC also went away or was waived as part of the deal.    Again, I am not on the Lucic train nothing against him just don't see the reward worth the risk and contract.  TG will not play players who can't play decent defensively - they sit or are in the dog house.

 

I am hopeful we can part with one without obtaining the other - problem for  potentially a bigger problem.  

 

 

 

Elliot Friedman suggested the ask from our end would be Puljujarvi. So it's within the realm of possibility and it's the only reason i'm suggesting this deal in the 1st place. We both know Lucic's contract is hot garbage. Puljujarvi is a pretty good sweetener though. Plus he's already asked for a trade. 

[EdgarM]

35 minutes ago, Borvat said:

I have never heard the return would be Lucic + Puljujarvi from any credible source.  Puljujarvi would make it more palatable.  It doesn't change the facts regarding Lucic and the problems with Lucic I see as I listed above. I like the thought of Lucic circa 2011 I just don't see nearly the same player and the game has gotten even faster.

 

If Lucic was a $2MM - $3MM cap hit/salary sure but only if his NMC also went away or was waived as part of the deal.    Again, I am not on the Lucic train nothing against him just don't see the reward worth the risk and contract.  TG will not play players who can't play decent defensively - they sit or are in the dog house.

 

I am hopeful we can part with one without obtaining the other - problem for  potentially a bigger problem.  

 

 

 

I am not leaning too far in either direction on this but I do question Lucic's decline since going to Edmonton. They don't have a good track record for allowing players to flourish on their club and there are plenty of examples to back that up. His numbers seem fine until he went to the Oilers. 

The other concerns I have with this subject is 1) I am really tired of watching LE's underperformances on this team and 2) I am really tired of watching our young guys getting roughed up without any repercussions. We have had the odd "tough guy" on our team but it really needs to be a team effort and I see this happening when we have more then 1 or 2 tough guys in the line-up.

It might not be the most ideal situation but if its only JB's best option, then, we must at least consider it for the betterment of the team.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Elliot Friedman suggested the ask from our end would be Puljujarvi. So it's within the realm of possibility and it's the only reason i'm suggesting this deal in the 1st place. We both know Lucic's contract is hot garbage. Puljujarvi is a pretty good sweetener though. Plus he's already asked for a trade. 

I don't know if any team (And Milan gets to decide if he will go to that team) will think Puljujarvi is enough sweetener to take Lucic's contract.  Puljujarvi might be worth only a second round pick now, as one of the many stalled prospects out there?  Milan and a second round pick just doesn't seem enough.  

[stawns]

24 minutes ago, VIC_CITY said:

Elliot Friedman suggested the ask from our end would be Puljujarvi. So it's within the realm of possibility and it's the only reason i'm suggesting this deal in the 1st place. We both know Lucic's contract is hot garbage. Puljujarvi is a pretty good sweetener though. Plus he's already asked for a trade. 

I think that's the only acceptable move for the Canucks to make.  I'm sure he'll ask for a swap of first picks, but probably only as leverage.  There's going to be very little improvement in players at #8 and #10