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nucklehead

Crazy in Alabama

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Pro-life people believe that the fetus is human life, and thus should be treated and protected as equal to value human life.  

 

Just because someone has to be raised, or will be born into low income, low education, or is simply just unwanted it’s doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to live and be protected. Those types of stances become a very thin line to plant your feet on when you start to break them down.

So, once again, would the people making decisions on what a woman does with her reproductive organs, be prepared to take on raising the child? Or are they just looking to assert some form of control?

 

And if they believe human life is valuable, dare I say sacred, are these people protesting sanctions and wars on countries, where children are dying in the thousands, like say Syria? Should that same standard be applied then, or is it merely a case of collateral damage?

Edited by PhillipBlunt
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31 minutes ago, dm_ranger said:

Not 6 months, but here is an article published in the journal of medical ethics that says post-birth abortions should be allowed. (they suggest a few days to decide)  Published in 2013

https://jme.bmj.com/content/39/5/261.full

 

24 minutes ago, Jack_T said:

Are the authors of that paper pro-choice? I didn’t read that anywhere in the text. 

I haven’t been able to find the authors’ stance on abortion but after the paper was published,  they released a statement which said the paper was meant to be a philosophical discussion, not advocacy for post birth abortions. 

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4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So, once again, would the people making decisions on what a woman does with her reproductive organs, be prepared to take on raising the child? Or are they just looking to assert some form of control?

 

And if they believe human life is valuable, dare I say sacred, are these people protesting sanctions and wars on countries, where children are dying in the thousands, like say Syria? Should that same standard be applied then, or is it merely a case of collateral damage?

Never mind that - try and square these questions with the hardline 2nd amendment people - many of which seem to be in this thread. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So, once again, would the people making decisions on what a woman does with her reproductive organs, be prepared to take on raising the child of a woman who wasn't capable of raising/didn't want the pregnancy was looking to abort?

No one is forcing anyone to raise a child, there are alternative methods than terminating the life..

How's that any different than a women deciding she no longer wants to raise the kid a month after it's born and is looking to abort?  You just called it murder a few posts up.

 

Quote

And if they believe human life is valuable, dare I say sacred, are these people protesting sanctions and wars on countries, where children are dying in the thousands, like say Syria? Should that same standard be applied then, or is it merely a case of collateral damage?

People do that all the time so i'm not sure you really have a point here. People care about life all around the world but there is only so much you can do outside of your own country.  Heck even i give $1 a day to help kids in Africa get food and a place to live.

Edited by ForsbergTheGreat
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3 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

 

I haven’t been able to find the authors’ stance on abortion but after the paper was published,  they released a statement which said the paper was meant to be a philosophical discussion, not advocacy for post birth abortions. 

I saw that too, later.  I was going to comment on it, but thought it would get confusing when I was talking about it.  It is comforting that they revisited their comments, but still raises some concerns.

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31 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Killing a nine-month old baby is murder according to the law. That's how it was written in your post 17 hours ago.

 

Maybe you meant nine-month old in the womb?

 

 

For those who are looking to put some legal ramifications on a woman's right to choose, are they ready to take on the child after birth and raise it, or are they merely interested in forcing their personal/religious/moral ideals on people who don't share them?

I wrote " A 9 month old baby can be aborted in certain states"

 

Aborted would imply that the baby is still in the womb. Does the 9 month old baby in the womb only become human life once it exits the birth canal? 

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At the end of the day a woman will always have a choice.

 

Sure they might do some jail time or die by coat hanger, but if they really don't want the pregnancy there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

And I know, I have the choice to commit 'crimes' too but these kinds of laws will just push these procedures back into the alleys.

 

I would hate to be a woman in this world. 

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2 minutes ago, Kushman said:

I wrote " A 9 month old baby can be aborted in certain states"

 

Aborted would imply that the baby is still in the womb. Does the 9 month old baby in the womb only become human life once it exits the birth canal? 

When is it called a fetus and for how long?

 

How old would that baby be 9 months after being born?

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Just now, bishopshodan said:

When is it called a fetus and for how long?

 

How old would that baby be 9 months after being born?

So a 9 month old FETUS in the womb has no rights and is just a clump of cells that can be discarded at any time at the discretion of the pregnant woman. It only becomes a baby once its born? 

 

Good to see the consistency when there is a WANTED pregnancy. Family and friends celebrating that growing fetus inside mommies belly. 

 

"come quick, you can feel the fetus kicking inside" 

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3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

No one is forcing anyone to raise a child, there are alternative methods than terminating the life..

How's that any different than a women deciding she no longer wants to raise the kid a month after it's born and is looking to abort?  You just called it murder a few posts up.

Bob and weave. Not surprised at all. You fail to answer the simple question directly. 

 

They’re forcing a woman to go through with a pregnancy she didn’t intend, wasn’t prepared for, or doesn’t want. That is not the right of the government to do so. 

 

And people who who decide that they don’t want a child after it’s born always murder the baby? Is that the generalization you’re going with? 

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

People do that all the time so i'm not sure you really have a point here.

Which people? I asked a pointed question and you answer with vague generalizations, as per usual. 

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

People care about life all around the world but there is only so much you can do outside of your own country.  Heck even i give $1 a day to help kids in Africa get food and a place to live.

There is only so much you can do......yeah. Countries are going to be bombed back to the Stone Age and children will die, but heck, there’s only so much you can do. Those kids will have to just try to survive, but the unborn fetus is of primary concern, that is until it’s born. 

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1 minute ago, Kushman said:

So a 9 month old FETUS in the womb has no rights and is just a clump of cells that can be discarded at any time at the discretion of the pregnant woman. It only becomes a baby once its born? 

 

Good to see the consistency when there is a WANTED pregnancy. Family and friends celebrating that growing fetus inside mommies belly. 

 

"come quick, you can feel the fetus kicking inside" 

I meant my questions. I didn't use the clump of cells thingy nor claim to support abortions at full term.

 

Do you think it should be called a 'baby' from the get go? from conception?

 

I didn't say it doesn't become a 'baby' at some point and that seems to be the main question here, when is it considered a conscious life? 

 

But calling it a 9 month old baby just sounded strange. 

 

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19 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Her body, her choice. I find it insane how a bunch of old men get to legislate what women can and cannot do with their bodies based on their personal morality. 

Could her choice not have been to keep her legs closed

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4 minutes ago, Kragar said:

I saw that too, later.  I was going to comment on it, but thought it would get confusing when I was talking about it.  It is comforting that they revisited their comments, but still raises some concerns.

Yeah, that’s the thing about some philosophers, they like to have ethical arguments just for the sake of it. 

 

&^@#ing philosophers, eh?

 

8 minutes ago, Kushman said:

I wrote " A 9 month old baby can be aborted in certain states"

 

Aborted would imply that the baby is still in the womb. Does the 9 month old baby in the womb only become human life once it exits the birth canal? 

9 months old means a baby that was born 9 months ago. We don’t measure a persons age from conception.

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1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

I meant my questions. I didn't use the clump of cells thingy nor claim to support abortions at full term.

 

Do you think it should be called a 'baby' from the get go? from conception?

 

I didn't say it doesn't become a 'baby' at some point and that seems to be the main question here, when is it considered a conscious life? 

 

But calling it a 9 month old baby just sounded strange. 

 

I see where that could be confusing, poor sentence structure written late on my phone. My point was that a 9 month pregnant woman is carrying a BABY and not a clump of cells, and its absurd that some places are allowing abortions that far into the pregnancy. 

 

The strict pro-life stance would be that a baby is formed at conception. I think this can be argued against. I consider it a baby once all the vital organs have been formed and there is a heartbeat which is around the 10week mark.  

1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

 

 

9 months old means a baby that was born 9 months ago. We don’t measure a persons age from conception.

Yes, Bishop pointed that out. That misses the point of my post which is that a 9 month old woman is carrying a baby inside her and laws allowing for abortions that late into the pregnancy to take place are egregious 

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10 minutes ago, Kushman said:

I wrote " A 9 month old baby can be aborted in certain states"

 

Aborted would imply that the baby is still in the womb. Does the 9 month old baby in the womb only become human life once it exits the birth canal? 

So do you add on nine months to your age? Were you born at conception or as you exited the birth canal?

 

Grammatically speaking, a nine month old baby is one outside of the womb. 

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13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I would hate to be a woman in this world. 

Careful, don't stretch this situation too far.

 

5 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

One interesting fact is countries that have more liberalized abortion laws and social safety nets also have the lowest abortion rates (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61786-8/fulltext).

 

If you want to reduce abortions without prolonged legal battles, the evidence shows the best course of action is to provide a better social safety net and allow people to make their own choices. 

 

Switzerland had the lowest abortion rate at 5 per 1,000 women. The U.S. rate is 13 per 1,000 women, the same as Britain's, the report found. Colombia and Mexico had abortion rates of 34 per 1,000 women. Pakistan’s estimated abortion rate was the highest at 50 per 1,000 women.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/abortion-rates-go-down-when-countries-make-it-legal-report-n858476

Assuming Jimmy's post is accurate (I have no reason to assume otherwise), we're talking about 1% of women here.  Odds are, if you were a woman, abortion laws wouldn't affect you one way or the other.

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8 minutes ago, Hansman said:

Could her choice not have been to keep her legs closed

If she was raped? Maybe it’s not as simple as that. And it takes two to make a baby? I’m guessing you’re one of those guys that isn’t that popular with the ladies. 

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1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So do you add on nine months to your age? Were you born at conception or as you exited the birth canal?

 

Grammatically speaking, a nine month old baby is one outside of the womb. 

I don't know why you keep going back to this. I just admitted that it was a mistake on my part to call an abortion in the ninth month of pregnancy and abortion of a 9 month old baby. You're attacking a grammatical mistake instead of addressing the point I was making. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Kushman said:

 

Yes, Bishop pointed that out. That misses the point of my post which is that a 9 month old woman is carrying a baby inside her and laws allowing for abortions that late into the pregnancy to take place are egregious 

I’m sure that’s not what you meant but I’d give that sentence another read through.

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