Canada to spend $16 Billion on new Coast Guard Ships - Irving's Rewarded

[MystifyNCrucify]

7 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

enlighten yourself: https://trudeaumetre.polimeter.org

 

I honestly don't give a rats hiney if you like the guy or not but at least know what you'r talking about, or make blanket statements, your call. 

What the eff is that Jimbo? Did you bring your crayons to big boy class?

 

You expect me to believe some unexplained numbers on a website because its in pretty colors?

 

How the hell can you take a websites neutrality seriously when its named after the guy they are propping up as the next messiah?

 

Barf. Gimme a break. Really showing what you know Jim. Big friggen numbers, written in crayon. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Canada's coast guard has long been underfunded. Considering it helps with rescue, border patrol, customs. I don't think this is a bad thing. 

Given the pressure on oil tankers in Canadian waters, improving response time to try and contain spills alone is a good thing. Because private industry does such a wonderful job of safety and clean up. 

 

Of course an investment in giving veterans proper care would be a good thing too. 

 

[JM_]

11 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Shouldn't he be investigated just on the fact he made those comments? 

why? in all seriousness, what do you think it would prove? 

 

I think that kind of investigation wouldn't lead to anything but more people losing faith in government and purchases like the one Zepp is angry about. Why is he angry? He's associating things that have nothing to do with the legitimate need for these ships. Not everything a government does requires the opposition to freak out for an investigation, I think we're in danger of becoming a lot like the US that way. I don't think anyone up here wants to see the literally daily demands for investigations that we now see in the US.

[DADDYROCK]

RS,I am so surprised you answered back it not like you ,

When did I EVER say I don't support our troops AS A MATTER OF FACT i WAS IN THE MILITARY,

you just kind of brought that up all on YOUR own.It 's not like you to jump to conclusions.

Diction policing is just not like you,It all like you Mr. Negative TROLL.

[Lancaster]

I wonder why don't they just purchase the ships from other countries.  Canada isn't even close to near the top when it comes to global shipbuilding. 

Did anyone check out the Japanese naval training squadron that came by Vancouver a couple of years back?  The vessel looks light-years ahead of the Canadian counterpart docked right beside it.  

 

$16 billion for like 18 ships seems a lot... but they're just patrol vessels.  Heck, Japan has built their F-35B aircraft carriers.... sorry, I meant "Helicopter Destroyers" for like $1.2 to 1.5 billion each.  Even their Maya-class destroyers, with AEGIS (used to shoot down missiles), the ability to launch ballistic missiles themselves and engage in ship-to-ship combat... also $1.5 billion to build.

 

It would be better money spent if Canada just teamed up with international allies to build vessels together.  Japan, the US, the EU, South Korea, etc.... they're all friendly nations.  Heck, Canada's claim to the arctic would certainly carry more weight if the navy has a friggin' aircraft carrier plus a few AEGIS mounted missile destroyers in their disposal.

 

But alas.... that doesn't buy votes and some politicians rather suck up to China instead.  

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

3 hours ago, DADDYROCK said:

RS,I am so surprised you answered back it not like you ,

When did I EVER say I don't support our troops AS A MATTER OF FACT i WAS IN THE MILITARY,

you just kind of brought that up all on YOUR own.It 's not like you to jump to conclusions.

Diction policing is just not like you,It all like you Mr. Negative TROLL.

When you say we need high speed rail more than equipping our forces tells a lot imo.

[MystifyNCrucify]

1 hour ago, Lancaster said:

I wonder why don't they just purchase the ships from other countries.  Canada isn't even close to near the top when it comes to global shipbuilding. 

Did anyone check out the Japanese naval training squadron that came by Vancouver a couple of years back?  The vessel looks light-years ahead of the Canadian counterpart docked right beside it.  

 

$16 billion for like 18 ships seems a lot... but they're just patrol vessels.  Heck, Japan has built their F-35B aircraft carriers.... sorry, I meant "Helicopter Destroyers" for like $1.2 to 1.5 billion each.  Even their Maya-class destroyers, with AEGIS (used to shoot down missiles), the ability to launch ballistic missiles themselves and engage in ship-to-ship combat... also $1.5 billion to build.

 

It would be better money spent if Canada just teamed up with international allies to build vessels together.  Japan, the US, the EU, South Korea, etc.... they're all friendly nations.  Heck, Canada's claim to the arctic would certainly carry more weight if the navy has a friggin' aircraft carrier plus a few AEGIS mounted missile destroyers in their disposal.

 

But alas.... that doesn't buy votes and some politicians rather suck up to China instead.  

 

 

Canada needs to be self reliant, or else someone else always has power over it. 

 

You have to start somewhere. Why give another country money, when you can create your own, possibly better product in time? Bit of patience and then perhaps canada is selling ships to other countries. 

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, Lancaster said:

I wonder why don't they just purchase the ships from other countries.  Canada isn't even close to near the top when it comes to global shipbuilding. 

Did anyone check out the Japanese naval training squadron that came by Vancouver a couple of years back?  The vessel looks light-years ahead of the Canadian counterpart docked right beside it.  

 

$16 billion for like 18 ships seems a lot... but they're just patrol vessels.  Heck, Japan has built their F-35B aircraft carriers.... sorry, I meant "Helicopter Destroyers" for like $1.2 to 1.5 billion each.  Even their Maya-class destroyers, with AEGIS (used to shoot down missiles), the ability to launch ballistic missiles themselves and engage in ship-to-ship combat... also $1.5 billion to build.

 

It would be better money spent if Canada just teamed up with international allies to build vessels together.  Japan, the US, the EU, South Korea, etc.... they're all friendly nations.  Heck, Canada's claim to the arctic would certainly carry more weight if the navy has a friggin' aircraft carrier plus a few AEGIS mounted missile destroyers in their disposal.

 

But alas.... that doesn't buy votes and some politicians rather suck up to China instead.  

 

 

Well we want to keep our ship yards strong and create jobs at home. It's no suprise why JT announced this so close to an election. Canada is building 15 type 26 global combat ships, some say it's the most advanced in the world. I agree with your take on weapons integration on the new ships and that work will be done by Lockheed Martin. They included building 2 more arctic off shore patrol vessels which are designed to go anywhere in the world and thats a pretty big ship. By my math that would be at least 6 of those ships most likely 7 because there was a contract previously of up to 5. I like that I just wished they adequately armed the arctic off shore vessels but they didn't.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[D'Angelo Russell]

1 hour ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

Canada needs to be self reliant, or else someone else always has power over it. 

 

You have to start somewhere. Why give another country money, when you can create your own, possibly better product in time? Bit of patience and then perhaps canada is selling ships to other countries. 

I think some sort of joint partnership would be best in these kinds of projects, that way the unit costs will be driven down as other countries will be batch buying too. While Canada still get the industrial benefits. For example the F-35, very expensive program but because theres so many countries invovled and batch buying now the costs is sub 90 mil US, which is actually reasonable for a state of the art fighter. 

[MystifyNCrucify]

14 minutes ago, D'Angelo Russell said:

I think some sort of joint partnership would be best in these kinds of projects, that way the unit costs will be driven down as other countries will be batch buying too. While Canada still get the industrial benefits. For example the F-35, very expensive program but because theres so many countries invovled and batch buying now the costs is sub 90 mil US, which is actually reasonable for a state of the art fighter. 

You may be correct. 

 

I think in this instance though, creating jobs in canada, while creating an industry that could not only thrive, but keep canada safe is strictly in canadas best interest. 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

The Fast Ferries, the Navy procurement program initiated by Harper, and this Coast guard program all utilized similar reasoning for using Canadian shipyards, even though using Canadian shipyards would be more expensive.  Hell, the Harper program spent billions before even one ship was even laid down. 

[MystifyNCrucify]

20 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

The Fast Ferries, the Navy procurement program initiated by Harper, and this Coast guard program all utilized similar reasoning for using Canadian shipyards, even though using Canadian shipyards would be more expensive.  Hell, the Harper program spent billions before even one ship was even laid down. 

How much of that wasted money was because of outside influence though i wonder? Meaning politicians currying favor with the ignorant public, slapping out their wee wees measuring milllimetres instead of dollars?

 

(seriously though i dunno. I do know that once someone else gets elected, they usually axe all initiatives the former electee put in place, instead of seeing it through)

 

Any plan like this one needs time to develop. If its not going to get the time, it really is wasted money. 

 

*awesome. The fast ferries were sold to an american company for 4.6% of what they originally cost to build, who later sold them for an “undisclosed amount” to a yacht company who donated them to egypt. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by MystifyNCrucify

[thedestroyerofworlds]

1 minute ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

How much of that wasted money was because of outside influence though i wonder? Meaning politicians currying favor with the ignorant public, slapping out their wee wees measuring milllimetres instead of dollars?

 

(seriously though i dunno. I do know that once someone else gets elected, they usually axe all initiatives the former electee put in place, instead of seeing it through)

 

Any plan like this one needs time to develop. If its not going to get the time, it really is wasted money. 

Hopefully, these new Canadian built ships come out better than the Fast Ferries (although a quick retrofit fixed their problems) or the recent batch of Coast Guard vessels. 

 

Hmm   Wonder who was in charge between 2010 and 2014.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-ships-can-t-handle-rough-seas-1.5009312

 

Coast guard's $227M ships rock 'like crazy,' making crews seasick, unable to work

'Something needs to be done,' says commanding officer about stability issue that's kept ships from patrolling

"At issue is the lack of stabilizer fins — blades that stick out from the hull to counteract the rolling motion of waves — on nine Hero class ships that were built by the Irving Shipyard in Halifax between 2010 and 2014."

[Lancaster]

3 hours ago, MystifyNCrucify said:

Canada needs to be self reliant, or else someone else always has power over it. 

 

You have to start somewhere. Why give another country money, when you can create your own, possibly better product in time? Bit of patience and then perhaps canada is selling ships to other countries. 

There is a reason countries trade with one another.  Sometimes certain countries has better infrastructures and expertise in building certain things.  While it sounds like a good idea to be more self-reliant, how much of a learning curve is required?  Other leading countries are also still improving their trade, so it may be that while you're supporting domestic industries, you may be ending up with equipment that may be less than optimal and more costly.  There's a reason people buy cars made in Europe and in Japan... they make good cars.  If Canadians suddenly decides to create their own auto brand and manufacture them domestically.... how long do you think before it will be bankrupt?

 

In any case, I'm saying that Canada should be joining with allied countries like those of NATO, Australia, Japan, etc.  If Canada can't rely on actual allies, no amount of self-sufficiency will save the country from external threats.

[Ralph.]

22 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Uhh no investing in the Canadian forces is a great idea. If you want a socialist welfare state move somewhere else. Oh btw I hate JT but this is good news. Oh and btw Chong is a clown... He didn't have a climate plan, he proposed a new tax.

Honestly, I don't disagree. I'm just tired of the government (every government) not spending enough on the things I value (imo education being one of the most criminally underfunded relative to other spending). But, this all ties into much more complex views I have about governmental institutions needing massive overhauls to better acclimate to an ever-changing world, and especially a shift in attitude regarding what it even means to be a public servant anymore (all of which will in all likelihood never occur). But I digress — that's a rabbit hole best left for another discussion.

 

If it makes you feel any better, my close second choice was Erin O'Toole. To be clear, I am certainly not a "socialist welfare state" supporter; wouldn't vote Bernie or the likes if I could.

[MystifyNCrucify]

1 hour ago, Lancaster said:

There is a reason countries trade with one another.  Sometimes certain countries has better infrastructures and expertise in building certain things.  While it sounds like a good idea to be more self-reliant, how much of a learning curve is required?  Other leading countries are also still improving their trade, so it may be that while you're supporting domestic industries, you may be ending up with equipment that may be less than optimal and more costly.  There's a reason people buy cars made in Europe and in Japan... they make good cars.  If Canadians suddenly decides to create their own auto brand and manufacture them domestically.... how long do you think before it will be bankrupt?

 

In any case, I'm saying that Canada should be joining with allied countries like those of NATO, Australia, Japan, etc.  If Canada can't rely on actual allies, no amount of self-sufficiency will save the country from external threats.

And im saying that you have to start somewhere. Yes canada might lose money now, but only if the “rebuild” loses focus. Stick with it. Volkswagon and toyota didnt throw out Jettas and Tundras from day one. Canada needs a bit of short term pain for long term gain. 

 

Besides, what is 16 billion compared to the 1.8 Trillion debt canada is in? How is that even possible?

 

How is it even fathomly possible that Germany can have monetary reparations for starting not one, but two world wars.....and still...still remains one of the strongest economies?  

 

Canada cant even live without buying oil from Saudi Arabia?

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, Gäz said:

Honestly, I don't disagree. I'm just tired of the government (every government) not spending enough on the things I value (imo education being one of the most criminally underfunded relative to other spending). But, this all ties into much more complex views I have about governmental institutions needing massive overhauls to better acclimate to an ever-changing world, and especially a shift in attitude regarding what it even means to be a public servant anymore (all of which will in all likelihood never occur). But I digress — that's a rabbit hole best left for another discussion.

 

If it makes you feel any better, my close second choice was Erin O'Toole. To be clear, I am certainly not a "socialist welfare state" supporter; wouldn't vote Bernie or the likes if I could.

I do like O'Toole.

[kingofsurrey]

4 hours ago, Gäz said:

Honestly, I don't disagree. I'm just tired of the government (every government) not spending enough on the things I value (imo education being one of the most criminally underfunded relative to other spending).

Canadians don't value education.  Look at how crappy our BC schools are becoming..... yet BC citizens stick their heads in the ground and pretend everything is going great.........   

 

No wonder why parents are moving to private ed here in BC.   BC governments have year after year dismantled BC public education system.   Sad really to see it all happen while the public  / our intellectually  lazy  mainstream media keeps shouting.... Lazy Overpaid teachers.....  etc etc etc....

Edited May 24, 2019 by kingofsurrey

[Violator]

https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursuit-of-19b-contract-swedens-saab-offers-to-build-fleet-of-fighter-jets-in-canada/amp

 

I would be down for that.

[MystifyNCrucify]

51 minutes ago, Violator said:

https://nationalpost.com/news/in-pursuit-of-19b-contract-swedens-saab-offers-to-build-fleet-of-fighter-jets-in-canada/amp

 

I would be down for that.

Definately down with that. Air force of planes that are built for canadian conditions, built in canada. Sounds good. 

 

Canada really needs to get its ash in gear and get a defense force built asap. 

 

I cant help but feel another world war is looming on the horizon, and even if its not, being able to defend itself while creating jobs cant be a bad thing.