[Proposal] Van - Washington

[HughMungus]

To Washington

Adam Gaudette

Nikoli Goldobin

Rights to Nikita Tryamkin

 

To Vancouver

Andre Burakovsky

 

Ive seen his name floated. Could we pry him for RFAs? Washington could be worried about an offersheet. 

 

Vancouver can spend.

 

Id rather trade than offsheet the guy.

 

 

Same time if Im WSH I would just let the UFAs in hagelin, smith pelly, connolly all walk. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fanuck]

Pass.

 

Gaudette will be more valuable than Burakovsky when all is said and done with their development imo. 

[HughMungus]

30 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Pass.

 

Gaudette will be more valuable than Burakovsky when all is said and done with their development imo. 

Possibly. But to add to that despite Gaudette potentially being an NHL center.

 

We could use another top 6 winger with some control fo the contract. 

 

Id rather focus on wingers before worrying about a future 3C. We will probably need to trade at the deadline for a good one anyway with a 18-24pick some year in the future.

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by HughMungus

[48MPHSlapShot]

Not a chance. Burakovsky hasn't solidified himself as any more than a 3rd line winger at this point, and he's been trending downward for a couple of years now. Goldobin on his own beat Burakovsky in both points and PPG average, and is himself a year younger. Add to that Gaudette, who despite underperforming somewhat in his rookie year is still a pretty highly regarded young player, and the rights to Tryamkin, who could end up making his way back to the NHL after this season and will instantly be able to step into an NHL lineup, and that's a significant overpayment for a 3rd line winger (of which we already have plenty).

[HughMungus]

38 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Not a chance. Burakovsky hasn't solidified himself as any more than a 3rd line winger at this point, and he's been trending downward for a couple of years now. Goldobin on his own beat Burakovsky in both points and PPG average, and is himself a year younger. Add to that Gaudette, who despite underperforming somewhat in his rookie year is still a pretty highly regarded young player, and the rights to Tryamkin, who could end up making his way back to the NHL after this season and will instantly be able to step into an NHL lineup, and that's a significant overpayment for a 3rd line winger (of which we already have plenty).

Hes more consistent than any of those players.

 

Doubt Tree comes here. Could see him wanting to play with a Russian Legend.

 

Gaudette will be an NHL center. Low 3c High 2c.   We have good ones. Highest value piece in the deal.

 

Goldi is a (?) Hope he could put it together.

[48MPHSlapShot]

12 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

Hes more consistent than any of those players.

 

Doubt Tree comes here. Could see him wanting to play with a Russian Legend.

 

Gaudette will be an NHL center. Low 3c High 2c.   We have good ones. Highest value piece in the deal.

 

Goldi is a (?) Hope he could put it together.

Tree for sure won't be coming back if we trade his rights.

 

The beautiful thing about centers is that they can play wing as well, whereas wingers typically can't play in the dot. As it sits right now we need a 3C, as Sutter and Beagle aren't going to be part of our long term future, and Gaudette should fit the bill. Even if someone like Madden surprises and makes the NHL within a year or two as a center, Gaudette can still be moved to wing.

 

Goldi is still obviously a huge question mark, which is why I would make the deal 1 for 1 and maybe even add a piece to get the deal done, but Goldy, Tree's rights AND Gaudette? That's way too much to pay for a 3rd line winger.

[HughMungus]

3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Tree for sure won't be coming back if we trade his rights.

 

The beautiful thing about centers is that they can play wing as well, whereas wingers typically can't play in the dot. As it sits right now we need a 3C, as Sutter and Beagle aren't going to be part of our long term future, and Gaudette should fit the bill. Even if someone like Madden surprises and makes the NHL within a year or two as a center, Gaudette can still be moved to wing.

 

Goldi is still obviously a huge question mark, which is why I would make the deal 1 for 1 and maybe even add a piece to get the deal done, but Goldy, Tree's rights AND Gaudette? That's way too much to pay for a 3rd line winger.

Ill leave it at this.

 

You call our 4th line centre/wing prospect a future 3C middle six winger. Thats fine. I can see it too if he doesnt burn out like Gaunce, Schroeder, Vey etc.

 

What i disagree with is you calling Bur at 24 a 3rd line winger and not seeing his top 6 potential on a team like ours. Thats where the value is. The next 4 years and then the 4 after (24-28/ 28-32). Bigger role. Teammates his age etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[48MPHSlapShot]

2 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

Ill leave it at this.

 

You call our 4th line centre/wing prospect a future 3C middle six winger. Thats fine. I can see it too if he doesnt burn out like Gaunce, Schroeder, Vey etc.

 

What i disagree with is you calling Bur at 24 a 3rd line winger and not seeing his top 6 potential on a team like ours. Thats where the value is. The next 4 years and then the 4 after (24-28/ 28-32). Bigger role. Teammates his age etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Burr would be a nice get, but he's still been trending downward for the last couple of seasons, and guys in his age bracket can be gotten for relatively cheap. Hell, we landed Lievo for virtually nothing. We landed Pearson for someone that most thought had virtually no (or even negative) value in Gudbranson. It's not worth it to overpay for someone that isn't a proven commodity when there are cheaper options available. Even if Burr does take the step you think he will, if just one of Gaud/Tree/Goldy pan out, that makes the deal even. If Burr doesn't pan out and just one of those three guys makes it, it's a loss for us. If Burr doesn't pan out and two or more of the three players going the other way pan out, it's a disaster for us. 

 

There's only one scenario in which we would win this deal (Burr pans out, Tree/Gau/Goldy don't), two scenarios in which the deal comes out even (None of them pan out, Burr pans out and one of Gau/Goldy/Tree pan out), and  numerous scenarios in which we lose the deal. The math just doesn't make sense. 

[HughMungus]

Just now, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Don't get me wrong, Burr would be a nice get, but he's still been trending downward for the last couple of seasons, and guys in his age bracket can be gotten for relatively cheap. Hell, we landed Lievo for virtually nothing. We landed Pearson for someone that most thought had virtually no (or even negative) value in Gudbranson. It's not worth it to overpay for someone that isn't a proven commodity when there are cheaper options available. Even if Burr does take the step you think he will, if just one of Gaud/Tree/Goldy pan out, that makes the deal even. If Burr doesn't pan out and just one of those three guys makes it, it's a loss for us. If Burr doesn't pan out and two or more of the three players going the other way pan out, it's a disaster for us. 

 

There's only one scenario in which we would win this deal (Burr pans out, Tree/Gau/Goldy don't), two scenarios in which the deal comes out even (None of them pan out, Burr pans out and one of Gau/Goldy/Tree pan out), and  numerous scenarios in which we lose the deal. The math just doesn't make sense. 

Thats like a Trump way of looking at the deal. We can win-win

 

If you really think Tree will come back to Van i cant convince you otherwise. But to me he made it clear he was going to wait until he could play for a team he wants like KHL players do. That guy with vegas for example. 

 

Unless Bur flatlined hed get 30 points a season for how many years we want him. Only room to grow here with the talent.

 

They dont like Goldis game by all indications (they being Desjardins, Green). I really think he needs the change to elevate his game.

 

Gaudette. I really see him taking time. I dont think he breaks out as much as grows....20/20/30/30 sort of deal. Especially with his minutes here.

 

So it would be moving a guy for someone further along development who can help our team now.

 

Washington salvages some assets we cant use properly (tree and goldi) and gets a good prospect in return.

 

No proposal here is ever 100% so I could see a contract in addition to Bur coming back. 

 

 

Other thing is Bur is pretty good in the playoffs. Thats why we gotta pay. His points are good if he only ever wings our 3rd line.

[48MPHSlapShot]

15 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

Thats like a Trump way of looking at the deal. We can win-win

 

If you really think Tree will come back to Van i cant convince you otherwise. But to me he made it clear he was going to wait until he could play for a team he wants like KHL players do. That guy with vegas for example. 

 

Unless Bur flatlined hed get 30 points a season for how many years we want him. Only room to grow here with the talent.

 

They dont like Goldis game by all indications (they being Desjardins, Green). I really think he needs the change to elevate his game.

 

Gaudette. I really see him taking time. I dont think he breaks out as much as grows....20/20/30/30 sort of deal. Especially with his minutes here.

 

So it would be moving a guy for someone further along development who can help our team now.

 

Washington salvages some assets we cant use properly (tree and goldi) and gets a good prospect in return.

 

No proposal here is ever 100% so I could see a contract in addition to Bur coming back. 

 

 

Other thing is Bur is pretty good in the playoffs. Thats why we gotta pay. His points are good if he only ever wings our 3rd line.

It just doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team to give up 3 young assets for 1 asset in return, especially when the asset coming back isn't a sure thing. It's way too high a price to pay, especially when cheaper options are available. Again, Pearson and Lievo were acquired for virtually nothing. 

 

I'll also add that we have a logjam of middle six players on the left side as is. Pearson, Lievo, Baer and Goldobin/Burr. Not saying that you can have too many decent players, but coughing up a significant asset that fills a need like Gaudette for a somewhat redundant piece seems like a mistake.

Edited May 23, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot

[HughMungus]

3 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

It just doesn't make much sense for a rebuilding team to give up 3 young assets for 1 asset in return, especially when the asset coming back isn't a sure thing. It's way too high a price to pay, especially when cheaper options are available. Again, Pearson and Lievo were acquired for virtually nothing. 

I would argue Guddy played himself off the team knowingly. He didnt want to be a punching bag like the rest of the tough guys we tried. Hard to find real men like Dorsett. And he had value but definitly not the same as what we traded for. Whipping boy syndrome.

 

Lievo was a good addition. But nowhere near the production. A good pickup if he can keep it up. But basically he was a waiver wire pickup we traded to get first. We cant build through the wire. Thats real patience.

 

 

And its 3 assets. 

1 that refuses to play

1 that doesnt click

1 that is developing and promising

 

For a more developed product they might not be able to keep without letting other pieces go. We can make that less painful 

 

If Wash wanted to move because he is struggling I would agree. But reports seem to suggest they are just worried about term and cap and other priorities. So therefore we need a fair package. 

 

Tree can play out his contract and then sign and come over for the playoffs like Vegas was going to do.

 

Gaudette slots into the lineup and Goldi can try for a winger spot.

[JeremyCuddles]

No, we have a Burakovsky in Goldy.

[wildcam]

2 hours ago, HughMungus said:

To Washington

Adam Gaudette

Nikoli Goldobin

Rights to Nikita Tryamkin

 

To Vancouver

Andre Burakovsky

 

Ive seen his name floated. Could we pry him for RFAs? Washington could be worried about an offersheet. 

 

Vancouver can spend.

 

Id rather trade than offsheet the guy.

 

 

Same time if Im WSH I would just let the UFAs in hagelin, smith pelly, connolly all walk. 

 

 

 

 

 

I would not package Gaudette as he will be a better player then Burakovsky in 2 yrs...Burakovsky has not done much in Washington?

I would trade Goldy and Grandlund....Burakovsky is not as good as Jake so he would be a bottom 6 player and we already have lots...

Hard pass on trade...

[48MPHSlapShot]

20 minutes ago, HughMungus said:

I would argue Guddy played himself off the team knowingly. He didnt want to be a punching bag like the rest of the tough guys we tried. Hard to find real men like Dorsett. And he had value but definitly not the same as what we traded for. Whipping boy syndrome.

 

Lievo was a good addition. But nowhere near the production. A good pickup if he can keep it up. But basically he was a waiver wire pickup we traded to get first. We cant build through the wire. Thats real patience.

 

 

And its 3 assets. 

1 that refuses to play

1 that doesnt click

1 that is developing and promising

 

For a more developed product they might not be able to keep without letting other pieces go. We can make that less painful 

 

If Wash wanted to move because he is struggling I would agree. But reports seem to suggest they are just worried about term and cap and other priorities. So therefore we need a fair package. 

 

Tree can play out his contract and then sign and come over for the playoffs like Vegas was going to do.

 

Gaudette slots into the lineup and Goldi can try for a winger spot.

Lievo's production was basically identical to Burr's last year in terms of PPG average when he got here, and Pearson's was significantly better. Burr is a more developed product than Gaudette, but as of this point he's a 3rd liner, and there are no guarantees he gets past that point, especially considering he's been trending downward for two seasons now. 

 

He's simply not worth that much. Maybe to a contending team that needs a middle six winger to fill out their roster, but not for a rebuilding team.

[Dombrova22]

No. That is all. 

[Hindustan Smyl]

7 hours ago, HughMungus said:

To Washington

Adam Gaudette

Nikoli Goldobin

Rights to Nikita Tryamkin

 

To Vancouver

Andre Burakovsky

 

Ive seen his name floated. Could we pry him for RFAs? Washington could be worried about an offersheet. 

 

Vancouver can spend.

 

Id rather trade than offsheet the guy.

 

 

Same time if Im WSH I would just let the UFAs in hagelin, smith pelly, connolly all walk. 

 

 

 

 

 

The only way I move Gaudette (or Madden) is if we’re getting a RD prospect.....or Connor McDavid.

[RetroCanuck]

12 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

No, we have a Burakovsky in Goldy.

haha I was just going to say that a Goldy trade may work there.

 

Hutton+Goldy for Burakovsky+3rd

[HughMungus]

Hutton > Tryamkin and Gaudette to us 

 

Right now imo

 

 

Goldi, Tryamkin and a 3rd for Burakovsky?

 

 

[GB5]

I don't know if there have been very many trades in the salary cap era where the shear volume of players going the other way gets the target player.

 

The exception being when a notable star is traded then the return is at least a roster player a solid prospect and a top draft pick.

 

This trade is not that. Gaudette has every sign that he will develop nicely into an excellent 3rd line centre or if he can play the wing, he may even develop into a top 6 player.

[IBatch]

We are better off adding a real top six player at this point, we have enough projects and middle six players.   Goldovbin isn’t much different really, Burakovsky looked good in WSH cup run becuase of who he was playing with more than anything.   I’d take a flyer on him if they wanted Goldobin or Granlund, but wouldn’t add any picks, we need them.    Pass.