[Speculation] Canucks all in for Jason Zucker

[The Great Canucks]

6 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said:

Exactly.

 

 

 

...I don’t think I’ve ever seen this much supposed interest in such a streaky middle6 hockey player.

 

Makes absolutely no sense and makes me worried that JB is in it who’s never won a hockey trade in his tenure here with the Canucks. If people have a problem with others cause for concern, they should do a reality check themselves. There’s obviously a reason why some people are concerned about where this could lead to...

 

 

Excuse me? Granlund for Shinkaruk was a win. Pearson for Gudbranson has looked like a win so far. 2nd for Baertschi is a win, too. Maybe you should get a reality check if you are going to lie like that.

[The Great Canucks]

3 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said:

 

 

 

 

AV overreacted a bit but there’s legitimate reason for concern.

 

Remember, JB has never won a trade outright in his tenure with the Canucks. The fact there’s other teams involved and reports the Canucks are going after Zucker hard doesn’t give me confidence if I’m being honest. 

 

I don’t get how so many people can give JB the benefit of the doubt so blindly. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with anyone siding with caution here. 

He's never lost a trade outright, either. He hasn't been torched on any of his trades. He's never sold the farm to get a player in a trade.

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

He's never lost a trade outright, either. He hasn't been torched on any of his trades. He's never sold the farm to get a player in a trade.

In think it is more appropriate to say that he hasn’t made any trades of actual real significance.

 

Always nibbling on the edges and fringes of the roster.  A hockey trade where he moves a top forward or a top D for another one aren’t something he has tried... aside from being forced on the Kesler deal.

[WHL rocks]

For me JB hasn't shown the ability to be a very good roster builder. There are a lot of players we would like to move out. Lots of overpaid players as well.  

 

He has had 5 years and has to own it now. This is his roster. 

 

We have 4 great young kids. I like Pearsson as well. 

 

I think Aqua brings in a new GM next summer..someone who can build a roster around these good young core players. 

 

JB did as well a he could but I don't see him being here very much longer. 

 

In Canada GMs tenure last around 4 years average.. he's had 5 and going into 6th. I think a chamge is coming unless Canucks make the playoffs. And that is a very tough thing as it looks right now..

. 

[PhillipBlunt]

30 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said:

Excuse me? Granlund for Shinkaruk was a win. Pearson for Gudbranson has looked like a win so far. 2nd for Baertschi is a win, too. Maybe you should get a reality check if you are going to lie like that.

Leivo for Carcone is an absolute steal. 

[wildcam]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

I've seen this a couple times today (can't remember if it was you?). I'd be totally in to that (presumably after July 1) deal.

I would not make a big trade offer for Zucker 27yrs old, 42 points? Never give up 10th and Virtanen.. I think Virtanen will put up between 40-50 points  soon and plays a physical game that you need to have in playoffs? Virtanen 21,  6'1, 220lbs ,fast, aggressive and needed soon when we make playoffs in 2 yrs, No to trading big Jake....Trade  bate, - Beartchi, Goldy, Tanev, Hutton, Dipietro,...

Juolevi 21, will also be a #3 D man soon, has had bud luck with injuries...Would of played 35 NHL game if not injured last season...

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

Paul Fenton laughs and hangs up the phone when he hears that proposal

Jake, Hutton, and upgrade their 12th to tenth?

 

Paul Fenton should beg to get a faster and younger player, a defenceman (they are desperate for depth D, sulk hind whatever past their top 4), and an upgrade on their draft pick.

 

Beg...

 

No chance!

 

[Me_]

9 hours ago, mll said:

Leopold demands the playoffs - Fenton is at risk of losing his job if they don't.  They are looking for goal scoring.

 

They wanted to trade Zucker to get 82pt Kessel.  Gaudette had 12 points in 56 games last season in a heavily sheltered role.  Fenton also doesn't believe in developing players in the NHL.  

 

Great then.

Minnesota’s got $19.000MIL in cap space.

 

VAN

Zucker

1st

 

MIN

Sutter

Tanev

Baertschi

Virtanen

 

or

 

VAN

Zuker

 

MIN

Sutter

Baertschi

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Me_

[mll]

2 hours ago, Me_ said:

Great then.

Minnesota’s got $19.000MIL in cap space.

 

VAN

Zucker

1st

 

MIN

Sutter

Tanev

Baertschi

Virtanen

 

or

 

VAN

Zuker

 

MIN

Sutter

Baertschi

 

 

That makes no sense for them.  They already have too many Cs.   Koivu is a better shutdown C than Sutter and they have ErikssonEk too.

 

They have one of the best D-corps in the league when everyone is healthy.  A season ago their Ds had 200pts to Vancouver's 122pts.  They are also the team that allowed the least high danger scoring chances.  It's really unfortunate that Dumba got injured but he will be back next season.

Fenton also said he isn't trading their top picks.  Their farm system is missing prospects.

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mll

[PistolPete13]

9 hours ago, Alain Vigneault said:

Take a look at the rumours.

 

Zaitsev, Zucker, Gardiner, Myers...do any of these players excite you?  Do any of these players fit what a rebuilding team should be looking at doing?

 

Jim. Benning. Is. Desperate. To. Save. His. Job.

 

You and all the other people need to accept reality.

Your idea of reality is all based on trade speculation. All right then.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

That makes no sense for them.  They already have too many Cs.   Koivu is a better shutdown C than Sutter and they have ErikssonEk too.

 

They have one of the best D-corps in the league when everyone is healthy.  A season ago their Ds had 200pts to Vancouver's 122pts.  They are also the team that allowed the least high danger scoring chances.  It's really unfortunate that Dumba got injured but he will back next season.

Hard to tell what makes sense for Minny.  

 

Leopold is too involved.  Was trading Granlund, Coyle, Neiderreiter a re-tool.  Or a rebuild? Without, cough, saying it...

 

If they also move Zucker.  And still don't address their biggest weakness, which is & was a lack of depth on D? They may as well not re-sign Koivu next summer either.   

 

They have some great forward prospects. In spite of what they gifted Vegas. Grandfather Suter and Parise to help sell tickets, and collect some assets this and the next summer.  They have some great forward prospects, plus Dumba.  And are not going to be any good through the life of Staal's contract. They should just mail it in now as far as I'm concerned..., start looking for the next core!   

 

 

[ItsAllOursBoys]

5 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Considering that Benning is on record saying that he's not going to be trading one of our core guys, this talk of Boeser in any sort of deal is irrelevant.

Could it be that in light of what may be offered in trade, JB may reconsider including Boeser as "one of our core guys"?

[mll]

10 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well... maybe cap clearing and getting "young and fast" Jake is something he'd in be in on. Not that I'm keen to move on from Jake. 

 

If the Zucker deal has been on the table for a few days maybe that's why he suggested it could be a possibility. 

 

Benning earlier this week to Kuzma in the Province

“Thatcher Demko is a part of that (untouchable) group and Olli Juolevihas had injury problems, but has the ability to be a very good player for a long time,” added Benning. “If I have to package guys I will, but I think Jake (Virtanen) is an important player for us. You have to be patient with this type of player and the power forward game he plays.

“You watch the playoffs and you see the size, strength and speed and as he continues to mature, he’s going to be a valuable guy. That’s not saying I wouldn’t move him, but it would have to be a good deal to include him.

“If we could add somebody to pay with Pettersson and Boeser or somebody to play with Pearson and Horvat — depending on what it takes — we’ll look at it.”

 

Fenton has been trying to trade Pateryn - right handed D.  Rask is also available.  Maybe they use Zucker to cap dump contracts rather than buy them out.  

 

Changing system might also mean changing goalies.  Dubnyk does well because of how solid they play in front of him.  Possession teams tend to turn the puck over more (have the puck more lose it more) and it leads to more rush scoring chances against.  Some goalies can't adjust - Jones hasn't been able to in SJS.  That might also be an area of focus.  

 

 

8 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd do this ^^^ We get the best player and clear some redundant bodies, they get a roughly equivalent player (albeit with concussion issues) on a cheaper contract and a lotto ticket in Goldobin.

The  Wild need right hand shots.  Their top-9 are all left shots save for Kunin.  

 

Boudreau was having fits with Aberg who is far too similar to Goldobin to be of any interest.  Fenton also believes that development is done in the AHL.  In Nashville he talked about how it's in Milwaukee that you have to learn how to play to win. I can't imagine him wanting Goldobin. They are moving Zucker because they don't think he is a playoff performer - he had only 1 goal (3pts) the past 3 playoffs in 16 games where the Wild got eliminated each time in the 1st round.  They are going to look at guys who they feel can help them in the post-season.  Doubtful that's Goldobin.

 

Baertschi and Zucker are very different players.  Zucker is a lot of speed and a quick shot.  Zucker has been playing with the Wild's best players.  Granlund is a top playmaker when he is on his game.  Baertschi played a fair bit in the bottom-6 under Green - before his concussion he was playing with Gaudette.  Zucker can play dump & chase while Baertschi probably does better playing a more skilled give-and-go game.  Fenton wants to change system and go towards a more skilled possession game.  Fiala never dumps the puck and Fenton thinks his potential is sky high.  He needs guys that can make plays with him and know how to pass the puck. 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mll

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

For me JB hasn't shown the ability to be a very good roster builder. There are a lot of players we would like to move out. Lots of overpaid players as well.  

 

He has had 5 years and has to own it now. This is his roster. 

 

We have 4 great young kids. I like Pearsson as well. 

 

I think Aqua brings in a new GM next summer..someone who can build a roster around these good young core players. 

 

JB did as well a he could but I don't see him being here very much longer. 

 

In Canada GMs tenure last around 4 years average.. he's had 5 and going into 6th. I think a chamge is coming unless Canucks make the playoffs. And that is a very tough thing as it looks right now..

. 

JB is, mostly, popular.

 

And has rebuilt the core. I agree his knack for team building has not been dead on. With quite a few shortfalls in decisions. His UFA's, have not accomplished a great deal. Particularly early, even Miller? Eriksson, of course a dead loss. Managed not to hang himself though. Example, as Fenton did trading Niederreiter. Jim's misses have been low cost by comparison. Some of his more recent shots, Beagle and Roussel have actually helped the team. And we sit here with that new core?

 

With cap. With cap space, a new core & time. Three of our best 5 players are 22 and under. Pettersson, Boeser and Hughes all trump any damage done by Eriksson, or Jake?  

I do agree there will be pressure to improve this year?  There is a reasonable chance its attainable. Our team appears Juolevi PLUS two key defenceman, no small matter, and a top 6 forward away.  With some luck, goaltending may be taken care of?  I think there is also more to like than just Boeser, Horvat, Hughes & Pettersson.   

 

Look past that? I also see a crew of young depth players < Leivo, Baer, Jake, Motte, Stecher, Gaudette, Pearson & Granlund may be young enuf, Cpl more coming in Madden, Woo, Lockwood > who will offer the team tenacity and speed. The ability to forge an identity that can dictate pace, style of play! Maybe I have rose colored glasses?

 

It might be a good thing, even considering his age? That he consider a role just involving working with scouting and development next summer. Hand the reigns over to, say, Brackett?

 

And we could still consider his tenure, by and large, a success. 

[the_impersonator13]

11 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Agreed that would be the max I go.  We can get the same in free agency around the same age.  Fake news!

Halford should go back to reviewing beer or something. He's hardly an "insider" or "source"

[mll]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hard to tell what makes sense for Minny.  

 

Leopold is too involved.  Was trading Granlund, Coyle, Neiderreiter a re-tool.  Or a rebuild? Without, cough, saying it...

 

If they also move Zucker.  And still don't address their biggest weakness, which is & was a lack of depth on D? They may as well not re-sign Koivu next summer either.   

 

They have some great forward prospects. In spite of what they gifted Vegas. Grandfather Suter and Parise to help sell tickets, and collect some assets this and the next summer.  They have some great forward prospects, plus Dumba.  And are not going to be any good through the life of Staal's contract. They should just mail it in now as far as I'm concerned..., start looking for the next core!   

 

 

 

They've already named their next core.  Fiala, Donato, Kunin, Greenway, ErikssonEk and Kaprisov and on D Dumba.  

 

Fenton and Leopold insist that it's not a rebuild and that they are rather re-tooling on the fly.  They didn't think they were that far.

 

The Wild were stuck in no man's land.  Coyle, Niederreiter, Zucker had 0 points a year ago in the playoffs for the Wild and that was enough for Leopold.  Their big guys have just not been able to perform in the post season and it was time to move on.  They want to win a Cup - not just make the playoffs.  They kept on changing on the fringes but the group simply failed to take the next step.

 

They have big sign at the entrance of their practice facility that says "good is not good enough" - he referenced it saying that's what he feels about the team.  He wanted a shakeup and someone that could objectively assess the team.  Moving the players made sense.  The returns don't.

 

Leopold is not happy.  He just hired Mike Modano to act as advisor to Fenton.  He also did not want to blame Boudreau for not making the playoffs.  That end of year presser with both Fenton and Boudreau was so awkward especially when media asked about Boudreau's future and possible extension - he's in the last year of his deal.

 

They are not going to re-sign Koivu in a year but should still have Eriksson Ek.  Fenton initially wanted to move him but he showed he could replace Koivu - Koivu was injured to finish the season and ErikssonEk stepped in.  

 

Kunin showed well playing C to finish the season and was kept at C during the Iowa playoffs where he did well.  He hadn't played the position since turning pro so he still needs some adjustment time but it gives them options.

 

Their defence took a hit by losing Dumba but he's back next year.  They should have replaced him with him injured that early in the season.  By the TDL the Wild were one of the top-5 teams at limiting shots against.  Over the season they were still the team that allowed the least shots against from the high danger inner slot.  Dubnyk had a poor season and was letting too many soft goals in.  They play a very sound defensive system.  

 

It's going to change though as Fenton wants to play more of a possession game vs dump&chase.  That might require a goalie update.  Possession teams have some of the highest turnover rates (have the puck more lose it more) and that's going to lead to rush scoring chances against.  Not sure Dubnyk can handle that.

 

Their biggest weakness for now is their lack of playmaking Cs.  Granlund was their only true playmaker.  They need playmaking Cs in their top-6.  That's not Staal and he also had a poor season.  Koivu and Eriksson Ek are more shutdown Cs.  Sturm projects also as a C3.  They want goal scoring but they have no one to feed them the puck.  It's been an issue forever - Vanek was already talking about it.

 

They do need more D prospects - they are at risk of losing Spurgeon in a year.  He wants to win.  Very important off-season for them.  Fenton has to nail the Zucker return after not doing so well on the others.

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by mll

[Canuck Surfer]

15 minutes ago, mll said:

Leopold is not happy.  He just hired Mike Modano to act as advisor to Fenton.  He also did not want to blame Boudreau for not making the playoffs.  That end of year presser with both Fenton and Boudreau was so awkward especially when media asked about Boudreau's future and possible extension - he's in the last year of his deal.

Leopold is part of the problem.  

 

So is Boudreau IMO.  His calling card is a good first year, because he is a good tactician, then wears on players.  A recurring theme now in Minny. But he has produced results at times in his career? My take would be to let him play out earn his next contract on the fly. Truly show, start to show that he will work with players.

20 minutes ago, mll said:

Their defence took a hit by losing Dumba but he's back next year.

They had no replacement for him.  Which was my point.  And a team that cannot lose any of its top 4 D?  Who are very good BTW.  Are still a bad team. Teams ALWAYS lose defenceman to injury.  They relied on hacks, AHL and 7th and 8th defenceman, some of whom were forced all the way up to key minutes.  

 

They don't seem to have any great prospects on the cusp, or anywhere really, either on D. Which means they have to start drafting for position, while they ''retool.''

 

24 minutes ago, mll said:

They are not going to re-sign Koivu in a year but should still have Eriksson Ek.  Fenton initially wanted to move him but he showed he could replace Koivu - Koivu was injured to finish the season and ErikssonEk stepped in.  

 

Kunin showed well playing C to finish the season

Up front, like I am impressed with their top 4, they have some good young players. Kaprizov, is a wild card.  But he HAS to be.  Kunin is a good young player, as is Ek. So is Greenway?  But that's a soft core if that's what it becomes. Unless Kaprizov is Pettersson on steroids?  None of them, Dumba back on D aside, is game breaking talent.

 

Which reverts back to is it a great plan to ''re-tool?'' Change game styles, when you don't have waves of speed & skill to carry the puck.

 

It all wreaks to me. 

[Kanukfanatic]

9 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

To VAN

kadri

kappanen

2nd 2019

 

to TOR

beartschi

hutton

10th

 

thoughts?

No effing way do we give up the 10th overall for that.

[timberz21]

16 hours ago, Kobayashi Maru said:

Agreed that would be the max I go.  We can get the same in free agency around the same age.  Fake news!

But it'll cost 7M+$ instead of 5.5M

[timberz21]

15 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

I do not get nervous when we talk about JB drafting (like I did with gillis, nonis, burke) but I do get nervous when JB is involved in trade rumours

Seriously, Benning might not have gotten max value in his previous trade, but he has never traded the farm or a significant piece that went on and bite us in the a$$ either.

 

I know it was his first impression with the Kesler deal, but all thing considered, he did pretty decent for a guy that was handcuffed.  Seems like that reputation stuck since.  He acquired guys like Grandlund, Baerstchi, Goldobin and Pearson for fairly cheap and are still with the team.

 

The most significant parts he traded away beside Kesler is Bonino, McCann and 2nd rounders