[Speculation] Canucks all in for Jason Zucker

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

Dumba is the best player in that trade, by quite a bit

Dumbo has the biggest ears, but he's not the nearly the player Boeser is.  

It's a 'MOO' point anyway.  No way Canucks trade a top sniper.  

[The_Rocket]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

Dumba is the best player in that trade, by quite a bit

Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree here. Boeser is better. But I guess comparing a scoring rw to a point producing dman is apples and oranges

[firestorm238]

13 minutes ago, The_Rocket said:

Yeah I’m gonna have to disagree here. Boeser is better. But I guess comparing a scoring rw to a point producing dman is apples and oranges

You're both right - Boeser is better, but Dumba is more valuable. 

[aGENT]

8 hours ago, mll said:

The  Wild need right hand shots.  Their top-9 are all left shots save for Kunin.  

 

Boudreau was having fits with Aberg who is far too similar to Goldobin to be of any interest.  Fenton also believes that development is done in the AHL.  In Nashville he talked about how it's in Milwaukee that you have to learn how to play to win. I can't imagine him wanting Goldobin. They are moving Zucker because they don't think he is a playoff performer - he had only 1 goal (3pts) the past 3 playoffs in 16 games where the Wild got eliminated each time in the 1st round.  They are going to look at guys who they feel can help them in the post-season.  Doubtful that's Goldobin.

 

Baertschi and Zucker are very different players.  Zucker is a lot of speed and a quick shot.  Zucker has been playing with the Wild's best players.  Granlund is a top playmaker when he is on his game.  Baertschi played a fair bit in the bottom-6 under Green - before his concussion he was playing with Gaudette.  Zucker can play dump & chase while Baertschi probably does better playing a more skilled give-and-go game.  Fenton wants to change system and go towards a more skilled possession game.  Fiala never dumps the puck and Fenton thinks his potential is sky high.  He needs guys that can make plays with him and know how to pass the puck. 

 

They want a right shot? Then they can have Sutter instead. Added bonus of likely being a solid 'playoff performer'.

 

I didn't say they were similar players, I said they were 'roughly equivalent' as in value. Similar age, production etc. It wasn't a comment on their play styles. And if they want some play makers ('skilled possession game'), both Goldobin and Baer are far closer fits to that than Zucker. And I hope you don't think I was intending Goldobin as the main piece there...

 

Sorry, I'm just not prepared to give up a whole lot for Zucker when we can easily sign similar players for free July 1. MIN is wildly misreading their leverage here if they think they're going to hit a home run with Zucker.

Edited June 6, 2019 by aGENT

[stawns]

14 minutes ago, firestorm238 said:

You're both right - Boeser is better, but Dumba is more valuable. 

How is Boeser better?  Dumba is probably a top 15 dman in the league

[Provost]

1 hour ago, The_Rocket said:

Zucker and Dumba for Boeser and Eriksson otherwise no deal. 

 

Even then, i don’t think I’d do it. Giving up the best player in a trade rarely works out

Dumba is the best player in that trade by a good margin.

 

Dumba is better than Boeser, we would have to add.  No impartial  hockey person would say otherwise.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Provost

[smithers joe]

i would love to see zucker here. if JB can find a way to get it done, great. 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Provost said:

Dumba is the best player in that trade by a good margin.

 

Dumba is better than Boeser, we would have to add.  No impartial  hockey person would say otherwise.

you wouldn't be adding much. A top pairing d or a top line (likely) perennial 30 goal scorer. Every team needs both and would have to pay a lot for either. It would matter who else was on the market or in your system, but it would not be a big add to make that deal. 

[mll]

49 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Dumbo has the biggest ears, but he's not the nearly the player Boeser is.  

It's a 'MOO' point anyway.  No way Canucks trade a top sniper.  

And no way do the Wild trade Dumba.  

[Ohthehumanity]

17 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

I’m not - cuz I’m old enough to have a memory. In his third year with the Canucks, we had a young player who had 14 goals and 20 assists.  Jake just had 15 goals in his third year as a power forward - a lower mainland guy just like The guy we gave up. We traded him and a first round pick (turned out to be 3rd overall) for the second highest scoring centre on an original six team - he had nearly a point a game for his original team and turned into the second highest scorer on the Canucks with exactly the same number of points as he’d had the previous year with the original six team. In spite of that, it was the worst trade the Canucks ever made. The guy we got was Barry Pederson, the guy we gave up on was Cam Neely - for many years the best power forward in the game - the part that helps makes it worse is that the first round pick turned into Glen Wesley, a defenceman who had a 21 year NHL career, he also had 19 goals and 47 points in his second year as a Boston defender - and that was not the best season in his long career.

I'm old enough too, and you cannot compare Jake to Cam Neely. Neely played a heavy game and could got to the net and score, and Jake doesn't. Jake is a fast winger that has a good shot. Cam Neely was a bull in a china shop who hit, fought and scored and Jake doesn't seem like he wants to be that guy.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Ohthehumanity

[grandmaster]

20 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

I'm old enough too, and you cannot compare Jake to Cam Neely. Neely played a heavy game and could got to the net and score, and Jake doesn't. Jake is a fast winger that has a good shot. Cam Neely was a bull in a china shop who hit and fought and scored and Jake doesn't seem like he wants to be that guy.

That’s why I loved Bert. He was Neely version 2.0. He was the best power forward in Canuck history. I had hoped Jake would fill those shoes but it still hasn’t happened. Remember it took Bert some time to get to that, the Islanders gave up on him before coming here (which is why letting Jake go now could bite us later).

[Ohthehumanity]

19 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

That’s why I loved Bert. He was Neely version 2.0. He was the best power forward in Canuck history. I had hoped Jake would fill those shoes but it still hasn’t happened. Remember it took Bert some time to get to that, the Islanders gave up on him before coming here (which is why letting Jake go now could bite us later).

True, but do you really feel like Jake is going to put it together here? I really hope he does because I want to see him succeed, but if there is a deal that can improve the team then you do it.

 

Not that this is a determining factor, but go and look at Neely's, Bert's and Jake's PIMs in their first four years in the league. Neely and Bert racked them up and Jake hasn't. That tells me that Bert and Neely were more involved physically, and Jake not so much. If Jake didn't have his size we wouldn't be talking about this, but the fact that he hasn't had an impact on the score sheet in either points or PIMs is telling for a power forward.

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

True, but do you really feel like Jake is going to put it together here? I really hope he does because I want to see him succeed, but if there is a deal that can improve the team then you do it.

 

Not that this is a determining factor, but go and look at Neely's, Bert's and Jake's PIMs in their first four years in the league. Neely and Bert racked them up and Jake hasn't. That tells me that Bert and Neely were more involved physically, and Jake not so much. If Jake didn't have his size we wouldn't be talking about this, but the fact that he hasn't had an impact on the score sheet in either points or PIMs is telling for a power forward.

I doubt he ever gets to Neely's level personally (is elite, 1st line hall of famer a realistic goal to set for ANYONE...? ).

 

But a solid, +/- 40 point, middle 6 RW with size, speed, shot and a solid two way game is nothing I'm in a rush to turf away either. Regardless of his draft position and people's associated, unrealistic, expectations.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Ohthehumanity said:

I'm old enough too, and you cannot compare Jake to Cam Neely. Neely played a heavy game and could got to the net and score, and Jake doesn't. Jake is a fast winger that has a good shot. Cam Neely was a bull in a china shop who hit, fought and scored and Jake doesn't seem like he wants to be that guy.

Neely, in Vancouver, was good but there were few indications, at that point, that he was going to be the player he became.  At the time, most people thought the trade was a big win for the Canucks.

[Ohthehumanity]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

Neely, in Vancouver, was good but there were few indications, at that point, that he was going to be the player he became.  At the time, most people thought the trade was a big win for the Canucks.

You're right, but he was having an impact on the ice while not putting up points. Jake hasn't shown that he is more than a big guy who can wheel down the wing and shoot the puck and then fly behind the net. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid and would love for him to succeed, but at some point you have to move on.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Ohthehumanity

[aGENT]

19 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

but at some point you have to move on.

We're not there yet IMO.

[rekker]

33 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

You're right, but he was having an impact on the ice while not putting up points. Jake hasn't shown that he is more than a big guy who can wheel down the wing and shoot the puck and then fly behind the net. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid and would love for him to succeed, but at some point you have to move on.

Yip. Jake frustrates me more than any Canuck, even Goldy. Shows flashes and then disappears for long stretches. I just see no point in trading him for at least a few years yet. He has little value and even if he comes along slowly as a third liner it is worth the gamble to wait. Of course that may change if a great trade offer comes in but I dont see it. He's slow in his maturity and we can only hope he gets it soon. It would kill me to see him "get it" on another team. 

[stawns]

46 minutes ago, Ohthehumanity said:

You're right, but he was having an impact on the ice while not putting up points. Jake hasn't shown that he is more than a big guy who can wheel down the wing and shoot the puck and then fly behind the net. Don't get me wrong, I really like the kid and would love for him to succeed, but at some point you have to move on.

He showed signs of being a solid top 9 fwd who could fight and I loved him when he was in Van.  But he wasn't showing much more than Jake is........Virtanen was on a 18-20 goal pace over 82 games playing 3rd line mins with almost no special teams time.

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, rekker said:

Yip. Jake frustrates me more than any Canuck, even Goldy. Shows flashes and then disappears for long stretches. I just see no point in trading him for at least a few years yet. He has little value and even if he comes along slowly as a third liner it is worth the gamble to wait. Of course that may change if a great trade offer comes in but I dont see it. He's slow in his maturity and we can only hope he gets it soon. It would kill me to see him "get it" on another team. 

You don't like a big, fast player who would have been close to 20 goals over 82 games, getting minimal ice time and almost no PP time?  

[rekker]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

You don't like a big, fast player who would have been close to 20 goals over 82 games, getting minimal ice time and almost no PP time?  

Maybe I came across the wrong way but ya I like Jake. Like him very much. But surely you have to agree he struggles with consistency. The lack of PP time has more to it. He had been given chances on the PP but gave the puck away a lot so he lost his spot which is understandable. I want the kid to succeed and love his skill set. He has to figure out how to be pro yet though.