Provost Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, EdgarM said: Baert,Leivo,motte and Schaller are not shoe ins by any stretch of the imagination. These are who he will be fighting for positions with. Baert because of concussion issues. I don’t agree at all on Baertschi and Leivo getting bumped by Eriksson. Baertschi has been above half a point per game average for a while now, Erikkson is struggling to surpass a third of a point per game. Baertschi’s injury worries are real, but as a bottom six player it doesn’t affect you that much as you would want to have kids on the farm coming up for injury call ups during the year anyways. Gaudette and MacEwan need some games. I didn’t even include Goldobin, but he is also probably above Eriksson if we need a top six fill in. On a roster with Sutter and Beagle already (if they are both still with us when the season starts), Eriksson as yet another defensive specialist is overkill. Defensive players can’t help you win, they can only help you not lose. The best you can hope for is for them to be a wash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 damn summer break clearly loui must be the source of most of the canuck defects given so many words written about him and seemly strong negative feelings towards him so let's keep building this thread in time it could stand a chance of out posting the trump thread should loui last his entire contract in this city on this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, EdgarM said: Baert,Leivo,motte and Schaller are not shoe ins by any stretch of the imagination. These are who he will be fighting for positions with. Baert because of concussion issues. Loui certainly will not bump Motte. Motte is an excellent 4th liner who hits a ton and has a motor that won't quit. I doubt loui beats out either Baer (who is better than loui offensively now) and Leivo (who is more aggressive). That leaves loui fighting schaller for that 13th spot. Schaller is way cheaper. Beat it loui....no use for you. Edited August 4, 2019 by Kanukfanatic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Heffy Posted August 4, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: Loui certainly will not bump Motte. Motte is an excellent 4th liner who hits a ton and has a motor that won't quit. I doubt loui beats out either Baer (who is better than loui offensively now) and Leivo (who is more aggressive). That leaves loui fighting schaller for that 13th spot. Schaller is way cheaper. Beat it loui....no use for you. MacEwan and Gaudette also are higher up on the depth chart than either LE or Schaller. Younger, cheaper, and didn't complain about their roles. Assuming we carry 8 D, we'll have one open spot: Ferland-EP-Boeser Miller-Horvat-Pearson Baerteschi-Sutter-Virtanen Leivo-Beagle-Motte MacEwen/Gaudette/Goldobin LE does not offer more than any of the above players. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) On 8/4/2019 at 3:20 AM, King Heffy said: MacEwan and Gaudette also are higher up on the depth chart than either LE or Schaller. Younger, cheaper, and didn't complain about their roles. Assuming we carry 8 D, we'll have one open spot: Ferland-EP-Boeser Miller-Horvat-Pearson Baerteschi-Sutter-Virtanen Leivo-Beagle-Motte MacEwen/Gaudette/Goldobin LE does not offer more than any of the above players. Eriksson is a better fit than Baertschi with Sutter. Sutter talks of how he likes that defensive role. Laviolette in Nashville talks of how skilled players need to dare to create - he says you can't have them playing trying to avoid making mistakes. They'll lose their confidence. On a checking line the role is to not get scored on. It's time for the Canucks to build lines with chemistry and not have players in roles that don't fit their skillset - it doesn't help the team move forward. Baertschi would also be more useful to a team that can play him with a skilled playmaker - he's a very good finisher around the net. He sees the holes in coverage around the net and likes to move in as the puck moves in, but there's not that kind of C for him here. Edited August 5, 2019 by mll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 8/3/2019 at 5:04 PM, Provost said: I don’t agree at all on Baertschi and Leivo getting bumped by Eriksson. Baertschi has been above half a point per game average for a while now, Erikkson is struggling to surpass a third of a point per game. Baertschi’s injury worries are real, but as a bottom six player it doesn’t affect you that much as you would want to have kids on the farm coming up for injury call ups during the year anyways. Gaudette and MacEwan need some games. I didn’t even include Goldobin, but he is also probably above Eriksson if we need a top six fill in. On a roster with Sutter and Beagle already (if they are both still with us when the season starts), Eriksson as yet another defensive specialist is overkill. Defensive players can’t help you win, they can only help you not lose. The best you can hope for is for them to be a wash. Baertchi is top 6. Not much use in the bottom 6. His concussion issues make him a big question mark. Leivo has not earned a spot to date. LE has not been put in a position for offense as has played mostly a defensive role lately. Goldobin is done he had his chance and there is no room in the top 6 for him anymore. Beagle and Sutter are centres not the same discussion here. Defensive players can't help you win? Did you really say that? Defense is what wins you championships there bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kanukfanatic Posted August 5, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2019 5 hours ago, EdgarM said: Baertchi is top 6. Not much use in the bottom 6. His concussion issues make him a big question mark. Leivo has not earned a spot to date. LE has not been put in a position for offense as has played mostly a defensive role lately. Goldobin is done he had his chance and there is no room in the top 6 for him anymore. Beagle and Sutter are centres not the same discussion here. Defensive players can't help you win? Did you really say that? Defense is what wins you championships there bud. LE is a bum at this point. Argue all you want, but he does not belong on a half decent NHL team any longer. I hope the Canucks manage to get rid of this lazy old fool. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 6 hours ago, EdgarM said: Baertchi is top 6. Not much use in the bottom 6. His concussion issues make him a big question mark. Leivo has not earned a spot to date. LE has not been put in a position for offense as has played mostly a defensive role lately. Goldobin is done he had his chance and there is no room in the top 6 for him anymore. Beagle and Sutter are centres not the same discussion here. Defensive players can't help you win? Did you really say that? Defense is what wins you championships there bud. I disagree and say that although Baertschi is a top 6 player, that he fits in perfectly on the 3rd line. The guy is defensively responsible. Leivo has earned a spot, he's been physical, smart, hard on the forecheck and has been a pest creating turnovers. LE has been put in a defensive role because he dragged down Boeser Pettersson and Horvat. Goldobin is 23 yo and has shown flashes that lead me to believe he will still get his chance. We have enough defensively responsible players that make LE irrelevant. Beagle, Roussel, Sutter, Baertschi, Horvat, Pettersson. We will survive without that bum making more than every single canuck player. What a joke of a player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 8 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: LE is a bum at this point. Argue all you want, but he does not belong on a half decent NHL team any longer. I hope the Canucks manage to get rid of this lazy old fool. I get it you don't like the guy but the reality is that we are stuck with him due to his contact. I think the attempt to move him has come and gone and we have to make the best of a bad situation. Not condoning to keep him but he is not as bad as some of you would have everyone else to believe. We still have plugs on this team and the line ups are definitely not set in stone at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) The idea that "defensive players can't help you win" is such a fundamental new-age falsehood. "Defense wins championships" may seem somewhat reductive - ie it's more of a 'truism' than a literal truth - but failing to understand how vital defense is to championships is to have a hopelessly simplistic, highlight reel conception of sport. That said - Eriksson was obviously not brought here to be a shutdown forward - his defensive/two-way game was part of what made him slighlty less of a risk than many of his peers in that free agent class. He's obviously serviceable - but this team has built an exceptional bottom six imo - and he's not really better than the other, younger winger options that Green has to work with - and probably more importantly, while he may be capable of equalling the on-ice performance of the other wingers competing for depth forward spots, he's less important/valuable to this team as an asset moving forward. Guys like Leivo, Motte, etc are obviously better asset values than Eriksson - and could still uptick on their perfromance and value - so who the odd guy out is - even before the public comments/rift - is a relative no-brainer imo. Edited August 5, 2019 by oldnews 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I disagree and say that although Baertschi is a top 6 player, that he fits in perfectly on the 3rd line. The guy is defensively responsible. Leivo has earned a spot, he's been physical, smart, hard on the forecheck and has been a pest creating turnovers. LE has been put in a defensive role because he dragged down Boeser Pettersson and Horvat. Goldobin is 23 yo and has shown flashes that lead me to believe he will still get his chance. We have enough defensively responsible players that make LE irrelevant. Beagle, Roussel, Sutter, Baertschi, Horvat, Pettersson. We will survive without that bum making more than every single canuck player. What a joke of a player. Baertchi is deployed as a top 6 you cannot argue otherwise. Leivo in 49 games has definitely not earned a regular spot. He is a plug at this point until he can prove otherwise. He has played 6 NHL seasons and needs to show something pretty quick. Really who is Goldobin going to bump out of the top 6 let's get real here. He was given a chance and blew it. Let's at least get through preseason before making bold predictions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Baertchi is deployed as a top 6 you cannot argue otherwise. Leivo in 49 games has definitely not earned a regular spot. He is a plug at this point until he can prove otherwise. He has played 6 NHL seasons and needs to show something pretty quick. Really who is Goldobin going to bump out of the top 6 let's get real here. He was given a chance and blew it. Let's at least get through preseason before making bold predictions No depth player 'earns a regular spot' until the puck drops, so the point is relatively moot - but calling a guy that scored 10 goal, 9 of them even strength - in 49 games a "plug" is ignorant imo. I hate the term regardless of who you apply it to - the NHL is at a point where there is such a wealth of talent worldwide that no player earning NHL minutes is really a "plug" any longer - particularly guys that track as 17 goal scorers per 82. The idea that a depth forward with that kind of production needs to 'show something pretty quick' is odd. All he can 'earn' in the past with respect to the future is another opportunity - which imo he clearly has. Leivo is no "plug" - he may not have 'earned a regular spot" in the future via what he's done in the past, but that is true of virtually anyone - you don't stick in the NHL by virtue of riding on past performances regardless of who you are - and who this thread regards - a guy that was signed as a 30/30/60 player is a perfect example. Eriksson, likewise, is no 'plug' - but he also doesn't have a leg up on Leivo imo - who was as productive as Eriksson - at a fraction of the reward - while bringing other intangibles that don't really make him a lesser option than Eriksson at this point. If anything, Leivo probably has an edge on two counts - 1) his acceptance/willingness to play any role (or at least no public question about that) and 2) the contract flexibility / cap value that is clearly better peformance relative to his contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, EdgarM said: I get it you don't like the guy but the reality is that we are stuck with him due to his contact. I think the attempt to move him has come and gone and we have to make the best of a bad situation. Not condoning to keep him but he is not as bad as some of you would have everyone else to believe. We still have plugs on this team and the line ups are definitely not set in stone at this point. A six million dollar anchor sitting at home or worse, in the press box, is better than a six million dollar anchor on the ice. Edited August 5, 2019 by Me_ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 41 minutes ago, Me_ said: A six million dollar anchor sitting at home or worse, in the press box, is better than a six million dollar anchor on the ice. Except he's not an anchor. He can be an effective bottom 6 player. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Except he's not an anchor. He can be an effective bottom 6 player. He was not brought here to be a bottom 6 player. Lots of players can play that role on this team. Just please stop defending LE. So he was good at penalty killing. So freaking what. I would rather have some of our kids get the ice time and develop than this fool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stawns said: Except he's not an anchor. He can be an effective bottom 6 player. He’s an effective bottom 6 player; not a six million dollar T4W. And that’s fine except for him, who signed up to play with the Sedins like Vrbata did. Is he expecting to play with Pettersson or Horvat? He better earn it. Edited August 5, 2019 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 20 minutes ago, grandmaster said: He was not brought here to be a bottom 6 player. Lots of players can play that role on this team. Just please stop defending LE. So he was good at penalty killing. So freaking what. I would rather have some of our kids get the ice time and develop than this fool. It makes no difference what he was brought in for. The reality is, he's almost for sure not going anywhere and he is a good 4th liner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, Me_ said: He’s an effective bottom 6 player; not a six million dollar T4W. And that’s fine except for him, who signed up to play with the Sedins like Vrbata did. Is he expecting to play with Pettersson or Horvat? He better earn it. Of course he has to earn his spot, everyone does 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontaylorforprez Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 10$ says he gets bought out before the 20-21 season. We’re strapped with him now where he’ll float between being a healthy scratch and in the minors. Where he may very well be picked up off of waivers (not sure if that process happens every time you are sent to the minors?) closer to the trade deadline. Oh, and that Boeser guy will sign for 6.5x4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, dontaylorforprez said: 10$ says he gets bought out before the 20-21 season. We’re strapped with him now where he’ll float between being a healthy scratch and in the minors. Where he may very well be picked up off of waivers (not sure if that process happens every time you are sent to the minors?) closer to the trade deadline. Oh, and that Boeser guy will sign for 6.5x4... They're not buying anyone out with Luongos recapture penalty on the books, imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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