JM_ Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Provost said: It is true that if you get Marner at his age, suddenly you don't need to find 1st round prospects to be in the top 6. At the same time though, with the salary cap the way it is, you need to recycle guys who are getting paid and insert guys who are on ELCs. That forward group once they are off their ELCs would be way too expensive to keep together.I guess you can plan on moving one of them out in three years for a kings ransom to fill the draft pick cupboard again. yup thats it exactly - thats where you recover some of that 1st round pick loss for sure. And it should be very possible since you're moving legit top 6 guys. I like it when GMs take ballsy chances. I doubt this particular tweet has any legitimacy but if Jim did go out and get someone of Marners elite quality I wouldn't be bitching. Edited August 12, 2019 by Jimmy McGill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Provost said: 30+ more points more isn't marginally better.... Marner is an elite player in the league and Boeser ir a very good player in the league. Entirely different tiers of players. Toronto is screwed because they have too many top paid forwards if they add Marner, even swapping Marner and Boeser and then signing Petterson, we don't have too many top paid forwards. You can afford two 10+ million plus guys, just not three of them. 30 points is a third liner difference or a puck moving Dman. It is marginal. Not worth it when you’re also giving up a top prospect and a couple 1sts which further weakens your depth for the future. Stanley cup winning teams do not feature 2 10 million dollar players. Not in the cap era. Edited August 12, 2019 by DeNiro 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: 30 points is a third liner difference or a puck moving Dman. It is marginal. You are just spouting nonsense now. Getting two players production out of one player isn’t marginal because you STILL have the rest of the ice time for your other players to produce. Your analogy only works if you are getting to play with an EXTRA 3rd liner on the ice every time Boeser is on the ice to make up the difference... like having a power play every shift he is on the ice.... not marginal at all Hey, Boeser is not even marginally better than Eriksson! Boeser only scored 27 points more than him... damn, they are pretty much on the same level! Give your head a shake. You can argue that we shouldn’t make the trade, but arguing that production difference is marginal is just ludicrous. It was actually a 38 point differential last year, but I am even giving credit to Boeser for improving in the the future to close the gap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostsOf1994 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, Provost said: 30+ more points more isn't marginally better.... Marner is an elite player in the league and Boeser ir a very good player in the league. Entirely different tiers of players. Toronto is screwed because they have too many top paid forwards if they add Marner, even swapping Marner and Boeser and then signing Petterson, we don't have too many top paid forwards. You can afford two 10+ million plus guys, just not three of them. Not trying to attack you but until the salary cap goes to 100 million having 20mill tied up in 2 players is kinda shooting yourself in the foot. More cap on 2 players = less depth = less chance of competing in the playoffs. Look at edmonton for example, 20+ mil on draisaitl and mcdavid and they can't even make the playoffs(no depth) even with the best player in the league. Who would win in a 7 game series, Tor Vs Van? Van Vs Edm? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Alflives said: Link? Pool Party for Risto? Can’t be, because I want them to both be Canucks to complete the offseason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: 30 points is a third liner difference or a puck moving Dman. It is marginal. Not worth it when you’re also giving up a top prospect and a couple 1sts which further weakens your depth for the future. Stanley cup winning teams do not feature 2 10 million dollar players. Not in the cap era. Yip. And Toronto is going to have three players at or near 11 million per, and not one is a Dman. Lol, Haha. Laughing myself to sleep now. Good luck with that Dubas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said: Not trying to attack you but until the salary cap goes to 100 million having 20mill tied up in 2 players is kinda shooting yourself in the foot. More cap on 2 players = less depth = less chance of competing in the playoffs. Look at edmonton for example, 20+ mil on draisaitl and mcdavid and they can't even make the playoffs(no depth) even with the best player in the league. Who would win in a 7 game series, Tor Vs Van? Van Vs Edm? Edmonton is a bad example as it has problems that have nothing to do with McDavid and Draisaitl’s contracts. You have to think about % of the cap and not pure dollars. Toronto is totally fine having two players at $11 million... they have a problem with a third one needing that much. Who wins in a 7 game series, Toronto or Vancouver. Even with uneven D and goaltending, I have to take Toronto on that one. People keep parroting the “you can’t win with players making over $10 million. They are entirely ignoring how the winning teams actually got to where they are. All the Cup winning teams for years have elite players who were signed years ago to what were then market rate salaries, but became bargains as the cap rose. Pietrangelo, Taraskenko, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Crosby, Malkin, Letang, etc. They were all signed to deals near or well above the equivalent to $10-11 million in today’s % of the cap. Ovechkin was closing in on the 20% of cap max allowed when he signed, equivalent to more than $13.5 million in today’s dollars. To win, you have to sign the right top players and pay market rates (like you always do), but do it long term so that a few years down the road you have them under market value and can use that extra cap space to fill out your roster. You need to do the first step by signing those guys in the first place. The price for doing that currently is $10-11 million dollars. There is no other magic way to get elite players on bargains, and you can’t win without elite players. If we had Marner and Petterson in a couple years both making over $10 million, we would be fine cap-wise. Especially because of a large expected jump in the cap ceiling after the new US TV deal is signed. Edited August 12, 2019 by Provost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, DeNiro said: 30 points is a third liner difference or a puck moving Dman. It is marginal. Not worth it when you’re also giving up a top prospect and a couple 1sts which further weakens your depth for the future. Stanley cup winning teams do not feature 2 10 million dollar players. Not in the cap era. Crosby and Malkin Toews and Kane That's 6 cups since 09. Granted the cap hits are not exactly at 10 mil, but there's been a heavy inflation since then (salary cap was at 56.8 mil in 2010: https://www.nhl.com/news/2009-10-salary-cap-set-at-56-8-million/c-431786), so many cup teams have had 2 top dollar heavy contracts in the cap era. You could also add Washington to my list (Ovi and Backstrom) since their contracts were signed when the cap was much lower as well. I didn't count the 2 LA cups as I'm pretty sure Kopitar and Doughty signed their contracts after 2014. The fact Toronto can't handle their cap well and screwed their team over by signing Tavares is irrelevant. They are an exception and have always been a poorly managed organisation. We should never make NHL-wide generalisations when looking at that dumpster fire. Edited August 12, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Provost said: 30+ more points more isn't marginally better.... Marner is an elite player in the league and Boeser ir a very good player in the league. Entirely different tiers of players. Toronto is screwed because they have too many top paid forwards if they add Marner, even swapping Marner and Boeser and then signing Petterson, we don't have too many top paid forwards. You can afford two 10+ million plus guys, just not three of them. Prior to playing with Tavares Marner was a 60 point guy. Not sure I’m as high on the guy as others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 1 hour ago, N7Nucks said: Prior to playing with Tavares Marner was a 60 point guy. Not sure I’m as high on the guy as others. Prior to playing with Tavares, Marner was a 19 and 20 yo fresh out of the OHL. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 4 hours ago, N7Nucks said: Prior to playing with Tavares Marner was a 60 point guy. Not sure I’m as high on the guy as others. Prior to playing with Marner, Tavares' best highest # of goals was 38 (14-15 season), he had 47 goals last season. Marner is an elite playmaking winger with 68 assists at just 21yrs old. He and Reilly set up 120 of the team's goals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 This Marner thing is a fun rumour because of the roster adjustments that would need to be made. To keep Boeser, and add Marner (via offer sheet), the Canucks would basically need to move full cap hit contracts on Eriksson, Sutter, Baertschi, and Schaller. Then sign Marner, Boeser, and Goldobin, and bring up Gaudette (and maybe MacEwen or Perron) for the season. The cap is workable, but that would be quite a task moving all those contracts, and still keeping the necessary picks for compensation on Marner. But it could be done, and it would be very exciting to watch (possibly terrifying), as JB has never done anything close to that type of wheeling and dealing in his career as a manager. Lines might look like: Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Ferland-Horvat-Marner Pearson-Gaudette-Virtanen Motte-Beagle-Leivo Goldobin, MacEwen/Perron, (Rousel IR) or for more balance top to bottom Goldobin-Pettersson-Boeser Pearson-Horvat-Marner Ferland-Miller-Virtanen Motte-Beagle-Leivo Gaudette, MacEwen/Perron, (Roussel IR) Not really attached to these lines, and camp/preseason will determine spots and chemistry, but the depth is certainly workable. Miller at 3C solves any issues around Gaudette’s readiness. Although personally, I’d start Gaudette in the lineup, and with some protection and enough rope to settle in, and hope he rises to the occasion (with Miller as Plan B, if Gaudette stumbles). Could even try something like this Leivo-Pettersson-Boeser Pearson-Horvat-Marner Ferland-Gaudette-Miller Motte-Beagle-Virtanen Goldobin, MacEwen/Perron, (Roussel IR) I’d like to see what Gaudette could do with that level of linemates, and with a fairly balanced scoring top-9. I mean, it’s not gonna happen regardless, but it’s definitely fun to try to imagine the lineup with Marner added, and the players removed to make the cap work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I love Boeser but at this point Marner is a good chunk better player. If we could get Marner for Boeser it would make us better. However, I think we would have to add too much to make it happen and I am very happy with our team as it stands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Why is all this Marner rumour and speculation happening in this thread about Canucks getting more options on defencemen? People need to keep in mind that the Canucks will be a better team from here on so we won’t be seeing top 10 first round picks for hopefully another 5 or 6 years. I wouldn’t be so concerned at this point about 1st rounders if you can use them to get a guaranteed star player. I would still be hesitant to drop 4 first rounders though on a Marner offer sheet. I’m also now wondering that if we ever did do this and sent a Tanev and Boeser the other way, that would still leave Toronto in a Cap pickle. Wouldn’t make much sense for them to take a lot of salary back as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Ward Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, grandmaster said: Why is all this Marner rumour and speculation happening in this thread about Canucks getting more options on defencemen? People need to keep in mind that the Canucks will be a better team from here on so we won’t be seeing top 10 first round picks for hopefully another 5 or 6 years. I wouldn’t be so concerned at this point about 1st rounders if you can use them to get a guaranteed star player. I would still be hesitant to drop 4 first rounders though on a Marner offer sheet. I’m also now wondering that if we ever did do this and sent a Tanev and Boeser the other way, that would still leave Toronto in a Cap pickle. Wouldn’t make much sense for them to take a lot of salary back as well. Edited August 12, 2019 by Dixon Ward 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 41 minutes ago, grandmaster said: Why is all this Marner rumour and speculation happening in this thread about Canucks getting more options on defencemen? People need to keep in mind that the Canucks will be a better team from here on so we won’t be seeing top 10 first round picks for hopefully another 5 or 6 years. I wouldn’t be so concerned at this point about 1st rounders if you can use them to get a guaranteed star player. I would still be hesitant to drop 4 first rounders though on a Marner offer sheet. I’m also now wondering that if we ever did do this and sent a Tanev and Boeser the other way, that would still leave Toronto in a Cap pickle. Wouldn’t make much sense for them to take a lot of salary back as well. No, they can afford Marner now with their LTIR maneuvering... so they could afford an equivalent combined salary that gives them two players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) Ristolainen will be at an NHL team’s camp What do the Canucks give in a trade for Ristolainen and is he worth it? Edited August 12, 2019 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Provost said: No, they can afford Marner now with their LTIR maneuvering... so they could afford an equivalent combined salary that gives them two players. If that’s the case why haven’t they signed him already? They are up tight even with LTIR. God knows what Marner wants and what has been offered. Edited August 12, 2019 by grandmaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Me_ said: Ristolainen will be at an NHL team’s camp What do the Canucks give in a trade for Ristolainen and is he worth it? Hell no! I just read that article. League leading minus 41? No way! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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