Rumour: Canucks very active in trade market (Canucks looking at D options)

[HorvatToBaertschi]

13 hours ago, grandmaster said:

As much as I hate the Leafs, I would say those guys are the fav to win the Cup this coming year. They look pretty powerful on paper...just hate the thought of Leaf fans going nuts if they do win

I can think of 5+ teams that have better odds of winning the cup than them. Toronto doesn't have a good defensive core and do not have a sufficient amount of help from the forwards to offset that weakness imho. They've also been favorites for 3 years and they've xxxx the bed consistently. It's in their DNA.

 

Washington: Ovi, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Carlson and Holtby. Scary team

Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Schultz, Murray. Scary indeed.

Colorado... Just need a decent goaltender but have a better forward group than TO

Nashville: just an overall solid team. No glaring flaws, good goalie, amazing defense and got even stronger on offense.

SJ: Karlsson, Burns, Couture, Meier, Jones. (I personally think they're gonna disappoint but they are globally seen as SC contenders)

 

That was off the top of my head. TO hasn't been past the 1st round since 2004 for a reason. They are not built for the playoffs. They think they can get by with 2 great forward lines, no defense, and relying way too heavily on a decent but not great starter. They are way over their head like they have been for the last 3 years and are startnig to get into serious cap trouble. Let's see what happens with MM before talking about the SC. It would be a miracle for them to even get to the ECF.

[JeremyCuddles]

9 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

So is Pettersson? 

If you think Pettersson carrying our trash team last season is comparable to Marner's 60 point seasons on a playoff team that's fine. Look, all I am saying is he went from a 20 goal 60-70 point player to a 20 goal 90 point player coincidentally as soon as Tavares centered his line. If you don't see a correlation there I dunno man, maybe I am just crazy. I like Marner, I just think his miraculous season is owed due in no small part to Tavares and because of that I wouldn't say the difference between Boeser and Marner isn't "30 points" big, especially since Boeser does most of his damage in goals whereas Marner does most of his damage in assists. A stat easier to pad than goals.

 

It was considered a somewhat down year for Boeser considering his start and he still matched Marner in goals. AND he was injured for 13 games. It took all 82 games for Marner to do what Boeser did in 69. It's also not as simple comparing them by goals, assists, points. One is a playmaker one is a scorer. The playmaker almost always has more points. Especially when they have an elite proven goal scoring center on their line. Boeser did marginally better without Pettersson. Is Boeser better than Marner? No, but the problem I had is someone said Marner is 30 points better than Boeser which I think overstates the difference in their skills.

 

Feel like we've talked off topic enough here though. I think we both agree Marner is the better player but disagree on by how much. 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

8 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

If you think Pettersson carrying our trash team last season is comparable to Marner's 60 point seasons on a playoff team that's fine. Look, all I am saying is he went from a 20 goal 60-70 point player to a 20 goal 90 point player coincidentally as soon as Tavares centered his line. If you don't see a correlation there I dunno man, maybe I am just crazy. I like Marner, I just think his miraculous season is owed due in no small part to Tavares and because of that I wouldn't say the difference between Boeser and Marner isn't "30 points" big, especially since Boeser does most of his damage in goals whereas Marner does most of his damage in assists. A stat easier to pad than goals.

 

It was considered a somewhat down year for Boeser considering his start and he still matched Marner in goals. AND he was injured for 13 games. It took all 82 games for Marner to do what Boeser did in 69. It's also not as simple comparing them by goals, assists, points. One is a playmaker one is a scorer. The playmaker almost always has more points. Especially when they have an elite proven goal scoring center on their line. Boeser did marginally better without Pettersson. Is Boeser better than Marner? No, but the problem I had is someone said Marner is 30 points better than Boeser which I think overstates the difference in their skills.

 

Feel like we've talked off topic enough here though. I think we both agree Marner is the better player but disagree on by how much. 

JT, a 10 year vet, also eclipsed his scoring record by 9 goals as soon as he was put on Marner's line. There's gotta be a correlation there as well too no? 

[N4ZZY]

12 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

If you think Pettersson carrying our trash team last season is comparable to Marner's 60 point seasons on a playoff team that's fine. Look, all I am saying is he went from a 20 goal 60-70 point player to a 20 goal 90 point player coincidentally as soon as Tavares centered his line. If you don't see a correlation there I dunno man, maybe I am just crazy. I like Marner, I just think his miraculous season is owed due in no small part to Tavares and because of that I wouldn't say the difference between Boeser and Marner isn't "30 points" big, especially since Boeser does most of his damage in goals whereas Marner does most of his damage in assists. A stat easier to pad than goals.

 

It was considered a somewhat down year for Boeser considering his start and he still matched Marner in goals. AND he was injured for 13 games. It took all 82 games for Marner to do what Boeser did in 69. It's also not as simple comparing them by goals, assists, points. One is a playmaker one is a scorer. The playmaker almost always has more points. Especially when they have an elite proven goal scoring center on their line. Boeser did marginally better without Pettersson. Is Boeser better than Marner? No, but the problem I had is someone said Marner is 30 points better than Boeser which I think overstates the difference in their skills.

 

Feel like we've talked off topic enough here though. I think we both agree Marner is the better player but disagree on by how much. 

i think that Marner is also the better player - we're comparing him to Boeser, right? 

 

by 30 points, though? I don't know if he's better by that much. From the eye test, I think that Marner is definitely the better all around player than Boeser is.

 

But even with that said, I wouldn't want to trade Brock. He seems like a quality young man, lots of character, and tons of skill. I'd want to keep him in Canuck colors

 

[N4ZZY]

3 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

JT, a 10 year vet, also eclipsed his scoring record by 9 goals as soon as he was put on Marner's line. There's gotta be a correlation there as well too no? 

Marner makes JT a little better. JT makes Marner better. That's what good players do, and they're both very good players

 

Wait. Are you being sarcastic???

 

[HorvatToBaertschi]

38 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Marner makes JT a little better. JT makes Marner better. That's what good players do, and they're both very good players

 

Wait. Are you being sarcastic???

 

No sarcasm, just saying that Marner is an elite player and that he's a tier above Boeser. Not even close to a knock on Boeser, who I think has rocket richard trophy potential. The argument was that MM wasn't producing nearly as much before JT arrived, and that there was a clear correlation, but it was also ommitted that JT hadn't scored at that insane of a pace since 2013 (when Moulson, Boyes, Nielsen etc... were all in their prime)

[N4ZZY]

10 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

No sarcasm, just saying that Marner is an elite player and that he's a tier above Boeser. Not even close to a knock on Boeser, who I think has rocket richard trophy potential. The argument was that MM wasn't producing nearly as much before JT arrived, and that there was a clear correlation, but it was also ommitted that JT hadn't scored at that insane of a pace since 2013 (when Moulson, Boyes, Nielsen etc... were all in their prime)

Ah, I gotcha. 

 

I still believe that Marner was good for JT, and JT was good for Marner. Good players make other good players around them better. That's just the way it is, and how it works. So I'm not surprised that JT scored a lot more with Marner on his line. And it doesn't surprise me of course that Marner was producing a lot more with JT on his line. 

 

But I do agree that Marner is the better player over Boeser, and I love Brock! 

[apollo]

Is tanev for risto straight up unrealistic? 

[Gaudette Celly]

23 hours ago, grandmaster said:

As much as I hate the Leafs, I would say those guys are the fav to win the Cup this coming year. They look pretty powerful on paper...just hate the thought of Leaf fans going nuts if they do win

On tissue paper.

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, apollo said:

Is tanev for risto straight up unrealistic? 

Yes. Even if they did remotely need a right D coming back (they don't).

[theo5789]

9 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

On toilet paper.

FTFY

[Elias Pettersson]

How exactly are the Leaves Stanley Cup favourites when their entire bottom 6 forwards are made up of scrubs making less than $800k a year and their second pairing D is Jake Muzzin and Codi Ceci?

[Me_]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

How exactly are the Leaves Stanley Cup favourites when their entire bottom 6 forwards are made up of scrubs making less than $800k a year and their second pairing D is Jake Muzzin and Codi Ceci?

Because.

[theo5789]

10 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

I can think of 5+ teams that have better odds of winning the cup than them. Toronto doesn't have a good defensive core and do not have a sufficient amount of help from the forwards to offset that weakness imho. They've also been favorites for 3 years and they've xxxx the bed consistently. It's in their DNA.

 

Washington: Ovi, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Carlson and Holtby. Scary team

Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Schultz, Murray. Scary indeed.

Colorado... Just need a decent goaltender but have a better forward group than TO

Nashville: just an overall solid team. No glaring flaws, good goalie, amazing defense and got even stronger on offense.

SJ: Karlsson, Burns, Couture, Meier, Jones. (I personally think they're gonna disappoint but they are globally seen as SC contenders)

 

That was off the top of my head. TO hasn't been past the 1st round since 2004 for a reason. They are not built for the playoffs. They think they can get by with 2 great forward lines, no defense, and relying way too heavily on a decent but not great starter. They are way over their head like they have been for the last 3 years and are startnig to get into serious cap trouble. Let's see what happens with MM before talking about the SC. It would be a miracle for them to even get to the ECF.

I think Pittsburgh is slowly going to start fizzling out like Chicago. Murray just doesn't have that factor to win enough games for them. Many guys aging and often injured too.

 

Surprised you don't have Tampa there despite their 1st round embarrassment. Or even Vegas?

 

Not as sold on Colorado as most. I think they'll be a good regular season team, but not sure how built they are for the playoffs. They're pretty much the WCE Canucks IMO. And like you said, goaltending is key here. I think Toronto and Colorado are about the same odds.

[stawns]

10 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

If you think Pettersson carrying our trash team last season is comparable to Marner's 60 point seasons on a playoff team that's fine. Look, all I am saying is he went from a 20 goal 60-70 point player to a 20 goal 90 point player coincidentally as soon as Tavares centered his line. If you don't see a correlation there I dunno man, maybe I am just crazy. I like Marner, I just think his miraculous season is owed due in no small part to Tavares and because of that I wouldn't say the difference between Boeser and Marner isn't "30 points" big, especially since Boeser does most of his damage in goals whereas Marner does most of his damage in assists. A stat easier to pad than goals.

 

It was considered a somewhat down year for Boeser considering his start and he still matched Marner in goals. AND he was injured for 13 games. It took all 82 games for Marner to do what Boeser did in 69. It's also not as simple comparing them by goals, assists, points. One is a playmaker one is a scorer. The playmaker almost always has more points. Especially when they have an elite proven goal scoring center on their line. Boeser did marginally better without Pettersson. Is Boeser better than Marner? No, but the problem I had is someone said Marner is 30 points better than Boeser which I think overstates the difference in their skills.

 

Feel like we've talked off topic enough here though. I think we both agree Marner is the better player but disagree on by how much. 

Marner is easily the best, most complete player on the Leafs, not even close imo.  Dubas screwed himself by paying AM like the franchise player.

[oldnews]

55 minutes ago, apollo said:

Is tanev for risto straight up unrealistic? 

Good question apollo - and the one asset that probably is the only real principal this team could consider, for a number or reasons.

From Buffalo's standpoint - I don't necessarily agree that they don't need a RHD - particularly one that is a legit, high end shutdown/hard minutes D - something they don't necessarily have in proven form.   Bogosian is marginal and expiring - not necessarily going to be in their top 6.  They have a couple young puck movers - Montour and Miller....

They are a team that imo could desperately use the kind of stabilizing elements Tanev brings - if they hope to compete.

I'd consider Tanev's value as a top 4 RHD mobile shutdown D with an elite first pass and world-class hockey intelligence/decision-making - to be in the range of a 1st + prospect.

His cap hit is excellent value - and/but his is expiring.   Buffalo though could have the option of moving him again - if they hadn't spent like teenagers in free agency they might have retained and flipped him to Toronto for a ransome....on the other hand, Buffalo has a fair measure of expiring cap they could use to re-sign him.

What is Ristolainen's value under the circumstances?  Perhaps slightly greater - but at the same time, I'm not that fond of the deal Buffalo gave him - they on-trend skipped the bridge, so here's a player who has not yet reached his prime, but has 3 years to UFA...that is something I consider slightly problematic for a few reasons, but in any event, I think it's a good question - that only Buffalo's management could really answer.   As I look at their build, I'm a bit skeptical = 19 million into Eichel and Skinner - while Risto is their top paid D at 5.4, Bogosian 5.2, Scandella 4 million....I like Dahlin and Montour (obviously), but it's looking like a bit of a Leafy build at this point.  I'm not sure undervaluing a Tanev type player would be the best course of that build.

[aGENT]

41 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

How exactly are the Leaves Stanley Cup favourites when their entire bottom 6 forwards are made up of scrubs making less than $800k a year and their second pairing D is Jake Muzzin and Codi Ceci?

 

39 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Because.

 

[oldnews]

47 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

How exactly are the Leaves Stanley Cup favourites when their entire bottom 6 forwards are made up of scrubs making less than $800k a year and their second pairing D is Jake Muzzin and Codi Ceci?

Are they (or others) seriously calling them/selves Stanley Cup favorites again?

If so, please link - that kind of stuff is always fun to read/here.

[Elias Pettersson]

42 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Are they (or others) seriously calling them/selves Stanley Cup favorites again?

If so, please link - that kind of stuff is always fun to read/here.

Haha, no I think it's just a few CDC posters in this thread...  

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Haha, no I think it's just a few CDCposters Leafs trolls in this thread...  

Fify.