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Hindustan Smyl

[Proposal]Trading both Boeser and Horvat: Caution - you will want to shoot me

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Trading both Boeser and Horvat:  Caution - you will want to shoot me

 

Please let me preface this by saying that 

 

1) This is purely hypothetical 

2) I realize that this won’t happen.

 

Trade #1:  Boeser + 10th + ???  for Jack Hughes.

 

Trade #2:   Horvat for a young RHD.

 

Again - the only world where this would take place is on EA Sports, but these above two trades would pretty much put us in a similar position to what Chicago and Pittsburgh were in before they established their dynasties.

 

Future Core

 

#####-Pettersson-#####

#####-J.Hughes-#####

#####-Gaudette-Virtanen

#####-#####-######

 

Hughes-[HorvatDefenseman]

#####-######

#####-######

 

#######

Demko/DiPietro 

 

Wings are the easiest positions in the NHL to fill, and could easily be filled over the coming years (actually - perhaps some significant pieces could even be added on July 1st 2019 if these hypothetical Boeser/Horvat deals took place on draft day).   UFA wingers would jump at the opportunity to play with Hughes and Pettersson, and would definitely see Vancouver as having enormous future potential.

 

IF the Canucks wanted to give themselves the absolutely best chance of becoming a dynasty/multiple cup winner, and were willing to wait a little bit before making an immediate move for the playoffs, then this could be the best way to go (although again, this won’t happen in a million years).  With the above line-up, the Canucks would likely have their futures set in the most important positions.

 

 

Edited by Hindustan Smyl
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There's one person in this scenario that won't shoot you - Virtanen

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EP and Horvat and Boeser Seider/Broberg/Boldy/Zegras > then Hughes and EP and ?RHD...would have to be one heck of a RHD.  

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I would definitely do the first trade.  I’d take JH and play him on the wing with Bo.  Then I’d sign Panarin to play with Petey.  Then I’d get in my time Machine and bring back Orr to anchor our D.  CDC scenarios are closer to reality than some video game.  :frantic:

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I agree that we need a true #1 to even think about a cup.  I love QH but I'm not exactly sure he'll ever be a true #1 two-way defenseman like Doughty, Pietrangelo, Keith and he has a lot still to prove to even be a Karlsson. 

 

However, for your proposal...as good as they are, i'm not sure that a 1-2 punch combo of Pettersson and J.Hughes is the way to win in the playoffs.  I know the game is inching towards speed, skills....but looking at what Washington did to Vegas and this year Bruins vs St-Louis, I don't think that 176 and 170lbs is going to cut it in the playoffs.  Malkin has as much skills as anyone on a 6'3 frame, while Crosby is a bull/tank...similar to Horvat.

 

I know he's not as skill as Toews or Crosby, but if you want to compare to Pittsburgh and Chicago, I think you need to keep Horvat. 

 

I mean, it would have to be perfect match, but if you want to acquire a top pair RHD, the more realistic way to do it would be to trade Boeser straight up for one. (i.e. Johansen/Jones).    But that's creates another hole on the wings upfront, although top 6 wingers are easier found than top pair defenseman.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

EP and Horvat and Boeser Seider/Broberg/Boldy/Zegras > then Hughes and EP and ?RHD...would have to be one heck of a RHD.  

Horvat is a very good line 2nd line Center, but having Hughes and Pettersson could very well be like having Crosby and Malkin 12-13 years ago.   

 

The Horvat equivalent of RD, when paired with Hughes, could have a legit shot of being the upcoming generation’s version of Keith/Seabrook, Muzzin/Doughty, Sutter/Weber, etc.

 

The key in analyzing this is to not to do a 1-1 comparison for today, but to rather, compare which scenario would give you the most potential in the most promising positions.

 

And like I said - UFA players often make their decisions based on which team has a chance of being the *next* great team.

 

In this hypothetical where we’d trade Boese and Horvat for those key prospects in key positions, I’d be willing to bet that a number of these UFA’s on July 1st would be enticed to sign here at slightly below market value with the future expectation that they’d be playing for the next Chicago/Detroit.

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1 minute ago, timberz21 said:

I agree that we need a true #1 to even think about a cup.  I love QH but I'm not exactly sure he'll ever be a true #1 two-way defenseman like Doughty, Pietrangelo, Keith and he has a lot still to prove to even be a Karlsson. 

 

However, for your proposal...as good as they are, i'm not sure that a 1-2 punch combo of Pettersson and J.Hughes is the way to win in the playoffs.  I know the game is inching towards speed, skills....but looking at what Washington did to Vegas and this year Bruins vs St-Louis, I don't think that 176 and 170lbs is going to cut it in the playoffs.  Malkin has as much skills as anyone on a 6'3 frame, while Crosby is a bull/tank...similar to Horvat.

 

I know he's not as skill as Toews or Crosby, but if you want to compare to Pittsburgh and Chicago, I think you need to keep Horvat. 

 

I mean, it would have to be perfect match, but if you want to acquire a top pair RHD, the more realistic way to do it would be to trade Boeser straight up for one. (i.e. Johansen/Jones).    But that's creates another hole on the wings upfront, although top 6 wingers are easier found than top pair defenseman.

 

 

You make a great point about size, but couldn’t acquiring/signing big wingers at some point be enough to negate the difference?

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2 minutes ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

You make a great point about size, but couldn’t acquiring/signing big wingers at some point be enough to negate the difference?

Everybody is looking for big, skilled wingers.  Everyone that has them wants to hold onto them.  When they get to UFA, you have to overpay to get them and you end up after 1-2 years into a 6-7 years contract with a Lucic situation.  

 

It might have worked in the 80s and 90s, but I don't believe in pairing a small guy with a big guy automatically free up the smaller.  Might work to some extend, but I believe that every player has to play bigger than they actually are to be successful in the playoff.  This is why I believe that Horvat will be a monster in the playoffs, despite being only 6'0.  I wouldn't be surprise if he matches or surpass EP's playoffs PPG once we get there.

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This trading of Horvat and Boeser really needs to stop. 

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5 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Horvat is a very good line 2nd line Center, but having Hughes and Pettersson could very well be like having Crosby and Malkin 12-13 years ago.   

 

The Horvat equivalent of RD, when paired with Hughes, could have a legit shot of being the upcoming generation’s version of Keith/Seabrook, Muzzin/Doughty, Sutter/Weber, etc.

 

The key in analyzing this is to not to do a 1-1 comparison for today, but to rather, compare which scenario would give you the most potential in the most promising positions.

 

And like I said - UFA players often make their decisions based on which team has a chance of being the *next* great team.

 

In this hypothetical where we’d trade Boese and Horvat for those key prospects in key positions, I’d be willing to bet that a number of these UFA’s on July 1st would be enticed to sign here at slightly below market value with the future expectation that they’d be playing for the next Chicago/Detroit.

EP had Boeser and faded big time down the stretch.  How’s he going to do with Goldobin or Bear or JV?   Pearson might get his 20/20 with either of them..Hughes is small and won’t do what Horvat can do which is he a bull of a two-way player with very little to work with.    I’d don’t think Hughes is Crosby ... Maybe EP can be Malkin.   Both those guys either have size or play physical too.  Like Horvat does.  

 

Like I said it would have to be one heck of a RHD.  

 

OR

 

We keep what we have, use our 10th to pick Soderstrom or Seider (actually prefer Seider because he’s got size and jsnt afraid to use it) AND let Edler go and go after Myers or EK.  That would balance things out in the back in both right away and in the future.   Boeser and Horvat are WAY WAY WAY more valuable then just Hughes IMO.   Ones a perfect second line center, and the other has a Rocket Richard trophy waiting for him in the future.  Hughes might end up on the wing anyways ... what’s a 5’10” center going to do when he draws up against 6’2” plus veteran NHL guys night in night out in our division anyways?  He’d have to be amazing just to be .500.   I can’t think of any guys his size that do as well as Horvat in the face off circle.  Ok maybe Point and he’s awesome.  But they got swept so maybe not that awesome (yet). 

 

Sure he’s going to be a star.  But so is Horvat in a way, as is Boeser.   RHD is by far our weakest spot so why don’t we just use UFAs to fill the gap until Woo and whomever are ready?   

 

I really don’t think this would work.  We’d be banking on Hughes been as good as Crosby which is not going to happen.   EP maybe ... and that being generous ... but probably won’t be Malkin either ... biggest snub to top 100 players all-time by far.   Horvat could even be better then Hughes overall as a center.  And as you say wingers are the easiest things to add.   We already have two great centres why don’t we just work with what we have instead of tearing it apart?  The value of both Hughes playing together is ZERO IMO.  I couldn’t care less.  We did that with better players that were twins and spent all their time previously on the same line and it didn’t get us to a cup.  

 

Hyped up (for now) is the projected first overall in Hughes (the next Kane blah blah).  Next year the first overall will be even more hyped as he’s already shredding the competition.   Is Hughes better then AM? Or Eichel? Or McDavid? Or Dahlin?  .... doubt it but who knows, he’s just the flavour of the year.   This draft is underwhelming as a whole, like EPs draft...and like EPs draft there will be one or two guys that surprise.   Benning did it two years in a row, maybe three is the magic number for this team...in other words I’d like to see him use his 10th to draft another star....or at a minimum a solid 2nd pairing RHD that will become a core player.  

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7 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

You make a great point about size, but couldn’t acquiring/signing big wingers at some point be enough to negate the difference?

Yes...if you can get them...what happened to Calgary after acquiring Neal?   Pearson did better with his short time with us so I see your point.   But that cost is Gudbranson...who are we going to trade to get these guys, and who is available this year as a UFA that fits the bill?   Maybe Hutton and Tanev could get us another Pearson type...but who is going to replace them?  Not as easy as it might look, they are coveted and don’t come cheap.

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11 hours ago, IBatch said:

EP and Horvat and Boeser Seider/Broberg/Boldy/Zegras > then Hughes and EP and ?RHD...would have to be one heck of a RHD.  

It would have to be Seth Jones. (pretty sure hes a RHD). I don't see any other defenseman being worth it.

 

I would prefer to keep Boeser, Horvat, keep our 10th, and try to get additional picks

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47 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

It would have to be Seth Jones. (pretty sure hes a RHD). I don't see any other defenseman being worth it.

 

I would prefer to keep Boeser, Horvat, keep our 10th, and try to get additional picks

And CLB hangs up the phone and says no thanks...but I’d see what your getting at...what about Trouba?...he’s about the same age and is up for his next contract....still do think would do it although they’d be interested for sure.  They would probably want Horvat...Schieffle and Horvat would be a formidable pair...and they have loads of quality wingers ... in this scenario they would do their best to sign Myers.  

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You better surround these two centers with heavier guys or the playoffs would not be kind.

 

I think Horvat is just fine as our 2nd center.  Better in a 2 way role than Hughes would be - though clearly not as dynamic of course. 

 

I honestly am perfectly happy with our centers as is without paying more precious assets to get easier to play against.

 

I know it is all hypothetical but imo this direction isn't worth even entertaining.  We need more opportunities for more top end players - not less. This means keeping the core pieces we have and adding, rather than trying to condense our talent and opening up even more spots to fill.

 

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18 hours ago, IBatch said:

And CLB hangs up the phone and says no thanks...but I’d see what your getting at...what about Trouba?...he’s about the same age and is up for his next contract....still do think would do it although they’d be interested for sure.  They would probably want Horvat...Schieffle and Horvat would be a formidable pair...and they have loads of quality wingers ... in this scenario they would do their best to sign Myers.  

Trouba? Well lol, I mean I have the good fortune of what he was actually traded for so I would definitely not do it for Horvat or Boeser. I would probably offer Stetcher, 2nd in 2019, and a prospect. However, I think Trouba is looking for 8-9million and I just don't think hes in that tier of defenseman so I would hang onto those assets and make a play for Ghost, Pesce, Werenski (if only he were available), Parayko. I would gladly offer up Boeser for Werenski, not so much the others.

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