Provost Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, Hutton Wink said: That's quite the list of baseless assertions, Carnac. ...compared with saying that we shouldn't trade Juolevi straight up for Risto because he could become better? Quite the baseless assertion for a player who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet compared with a guy who scores over 40 points every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Virtanen#18 said: OK as per a tweet by a Finnish journalist: Trade offer on table: To Van: 1st #31 pick, 6th round pick, Ristolainen and Nylander To Buf: #10 pick, Juolevi, Virtanen Worth considering..... Take out Nylander, take out Virtanen. We: Upgrade Juolevi to Risto. Move down from #10 to #31 Gain 6th round (Benning and co. need picks). Buffalo: Get younger, up and coming Dman (former high pick). Move into the top ten at the draft. We’re underrating Juolevi a little bit, but it’s worth it for the bigger, more dynamic Finnish Dman who can play now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, nergish said: Take out Nylander, take out Virtanen. We: Upgrade Juolevi to Risto. Move down from #10 to #31 Gain 6th round (Benning and co. need picks). Buffalo: Get younger, up and coming Dman (former high pick). Move into the top ten at the draft. We’re underrating Juolevi a little bit, but it’s worth it for the bigger, more dynamic Finnish Dman who can play now. That 10 pick just throws it off. 10 is going to be a roster player down the road. Juolevi already is a big asset. I would swap our 2nd with 10 and add on Lind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 22 hours ago, Alflives said: Would Risto just be another Guddy though? We don't need to make any more mistakes. Far from it Alf, his stats are very impressive for this part of his career,. We could only hope that our 10th overall pick this year could turn into a player like Risto. Risto is worth the 10th,. Maybe throw Tanev in that deal to help fill their hole if they need it,. It helps us by clearing 4.5m per for playing half seasons. Tanev might actually get to play his game in Buffalo,. They are a big club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Provost said: ...compared with saying that we shouldn't trade Juolevi straight up for Risto because he could become better? Quite the baseless assertion for a player who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet compared with a guy who scores over 40 points every season. Because you have ZERO evidence to base it upon, which you admitted. Juolevi's development has been tracking very well, and the ONLY reason he has not played in the NHL yet is because of serious injuries. To suggest "equally possible that he never becomes an NHL regular at all" is ludicrous, unless you happen to know that he's not going to recover or be seriously hampered by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 If this deal goes through, it will reek of a GM desperate to make the playoffs and save his job. 10th overall is basically a guaranteed NHL player, probably a pretty damn good one too. Virtanen is a big, fast middle 6 forward, and Juolevi is still a valuable prospect that, barring injuries, should be able to step into the NHL next season. Risto would be a nice add (aside from the plus/minus), but 31st overall is a crap shoot at best, and Nylander just doesn't impress me at all. Mediocre AHL numbers for a prospect of his pedigree and a game that just won't mesh well with either of our top two centers. This is a deal that may be able to help is in the very short term, but will probably end up killing us in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 minutes ago, Provost said: ...compared with saying that we shouldn't trade Juolevi straight up for Risto because he could become better? Quite the baseless assertion for a player who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet compared with a guy who scores over 40 points every season. But that wasn't the proposal. The proposal was Juolevi for Risto plus a massive downgrade in 1st round pick, + a massive downgrade in young forward, plus a 6th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: If this deal goes through, it will reek of a GM desperate to make the playoffs and save his job. 10th overall is basically a guaranteed NHL player, probably a pretty damn good one too. Virtanen is a big, fast middle 6 forward, and Juolevi is still a valuable prospect that, barring injuries, should be able to step into the NHL next season. Risto would be a nice add (aside from the plus/minus), but 31st overall is a crap shoot at best, and Nylander just doesn't impress me at all. Mediocre AHL numbers for a prospect of his pedigree and a game that just won't mesh well with either of our top two centers. This is a deal that may be able to help is in the very short term, but will probably end up killing us in the long term. I wouldn't worry. Don't see it happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Far from it Alf, his stats are very impressive for this part of his career,. We could only hope that our 10th overall pick this year could turn into a player like Risto. Risto is worth the 10th,. Maybe throw Tanev in that deal to help fill their hole if they need it,. It helps us by clearing 4.5m per for playing half seasons. Tanev might actually get to play his game in Buffalo,. They are a big club. That's a lot of minus' on his stat sheet. I like the guy, but don't want a D man that can't (you know) play D. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: Because you have ZERO evidence to base it upon, which you admitted. Juolevi's development has been tracking very well, and the ONLY reason he has not played in the NHL yet is because of serious injuries. To suggest "equally possible that he never becomes an NHL regular at all" is ludicrous, unless you happen to know that he's not going to recover or be seriously hampered by them. Your position is insane. Every piece of evidence that ACTUALLY exists is that Risto is better than Juolevi. My assertion wasn't that it was as equally possible of him entirely flaming out as becoming an NHLer. He hasn't played a single NHL game yet, so it is no more likely that he becomes better than Risto (a 40-50 point D man who plays 25 minutes a game), as it is that he is never an NHL regular. Both are unlikely. Your basing trade decisions assuming the former is the dumbest thing I have heard about what is an above average but not elite prospect who has never stepped foot in an NHL game. Juolevi is far behind many players who were drafted after him... does anyone (who doesn't have major head trauma) pick him above Mcavoy or Sergachev? That ignores all the forwards like Tkachuk as well. Juolevi is improving compared with NOT tracking well at all after the draft, and there is a lot of hope that he could eventually become a top 4 D man. That is not the same as it being guaranteed, and being guaranteed to be in the top 20-30 point producers from the D position in the league who plays tough top pairing minutes. https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/how-would-the-2016-nhl-draft-unfold-if-we-did-it-again-today https://thehockeywriters.com/2016-nhl-mock-draft-revisited-5-takeaways/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, aGENT said: I wouldn't worry. Don't see it happening. I really hope your right. It's really difficult for me to put any stock into Nylander as a prospect. Pettersson has elite skill and a great shot, but imo he's a bit hesitant to take the shot when he feels he's off his game. Pair that with a guy that isn't hesitant to pull the trigger, but who's skill and shot just isn't where it needs to be, and you have a recipe for disaster imho. Then you have Horvat, who's a good possession player and can actually finish. Put him with another puck possession guy that can't finish as well? Again, recipe for disaster imo. Another thing to add. If Juolevi does pan out becomes a top 4 Dman, Benning is at least somewhat vindicated. If he moves Juolevi and he pans out somewhere else, he ends up with egg on his face. Edited June 19, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The asking price is high and the term required to keep him in three years might also be high; after 5 yrs he is already somewhat a known commodity. He will need a defensive partner to pair with to not be a liability and the Sabres had never made the playoffs during his time there (I understand that hockey is team game but if Risto is such a game changer based on the asking price how come he has not made any difference to the Sabres ?). I hope this is just a rumour. I would rather keep the assets and hope to find a similar player in the draft... Dont do it JB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: If this deal goes through, it will reek of a GM desperate to make the playoffs and save his job. 10th overall is basically a guaranteed NHL player, probably a pretty damn good one too. Virtanen is a big, fast middle 6 forward, and Juolevi is still a valuable prospect that, barring injuries, should be able to step into the NHL next season. Risto would be a nice add (aside from the plus/minus), but 31st overall is a crap shoot at best, and Nylander just doesn't impress me at all. Mediocre AHL numbers for a prospect of his pedigree and a game that just won't mesh well with either of our top two centers. This is a deal that may be able to help is in the very short term, but will probably end up killing us in the long term. Ditto and Risto is a talented player but not a game changer based on the asking price. As stated before after 5yrs in the league, he is already a known commodity and the Sabres had not made the playoffs during his tenure there. Dont do it JB !!! Edited June 19, 2019 by ShawnAntoski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, Alflives said: That's a lot of minus' on his stat sheet. I like the guy, but don't want a D man that can't (you know) play D. I’ll be honest , I haven’t seen Risto play a lot... but if he is getting that many assists regularly per season as a young Dman,. He needs the right pairing. I also do t think that Buffalos goaltending has been that great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 44 minutes ago, Alflives said: That's a lot of minus' on his stat sheet. I like the guy, but don't want a D man that can't (you know) play D. I noticed that too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, SilentSam said: I’ll be honest , I haven’t seen Risto play a lot... but if he is getting that many assists regularly per season as a young Dman,. He needs the right pairing. I also do t think that Buffalos goaltending has been that great. I wonder if Edler would be a really good partner for Risto? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) Just for some context, Risto had the worst +/- in the league last season, and it wasn't particularly close. Last season he had the 18th worst +/- in the league. He's a -142 in 5 and a half seasons in the NHL. -142 Edited June 19, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Just for some context, Risto had the worst +/- in the league last season, and it wasn't particularly close. Last season he had the 18th worst +/- in the league. He's a -142 in 5 and a half seasons in the NHL. -142 On 6/18/2019 at 9:31 AM, aGENT said: He's never going to be a shut down D but he was put in a big/hard minute, match up role on a poor team, without a goalie. He's only 'ok' defensively and in that role/situation, that was never going to be a good look. Otherwise he's a big, durable, top 4 D who can put up points. Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, aGENT said: I'm not saying we shouldn't inquire and pull the trigger if the price is right. Just that some people here are overvaluing him quite a bit. The guy has never been a plus player at a professional level. Even going back to his time in Liiga, his +/- was atrocious. After 9 seasons spanning 3 different leagues of having a horrible +/-, one has to think that it's more than just "playing on a bad team" or some sort of anomaly. This isn't an anomaly, and it's extremely unsettling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 minute ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: I'm not saying we shouldn't inquire and pull the trigger if the price is right. Just that some people here are overvaluing him quite a bit. The guy has never been a plus player at a professional level. Even going back to his time in Liiga, his +/- was atrocious. After 9 seasons spanning 3 different leagues of having a horrible +/-, one has to think that it's more than just "playing on a bad team" or some sort of anomaly. This isn't an anomaly, and it's extremely unsettling. Oh for sure the OJ + Virt + 10th, +, + nonsense is a non-starter. He's not THAT good. He'd be a solid, 2nd pair piece with good size, offense and puck moving for the right deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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