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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

OK, fair enough question...…………...

 

IMO, using the eye test only...…...Toffoli looks to be a more aggressive type of Offensive winger...….

His attitude, is somewhat like Millers in that regard, and maybe that is what is drawing me to him, I don't know.

But, IMO, you do not let a high calibre player walk for free, especially when you have paid such a price (Madden, 2nd, etc)

I also do not think Benning would use that much asset, just to give the team 4 to 7 games of playoff experience,

especially when it was not a certainty...…..

IMO, Toffoli looks like a player that can play into his 30's, so I would say 33 to be safe......

That is 5 years, and that is enough time to develop another RW, "IF" needed, as in "IF" one of our other 6 does not fill that role for him.

 

To me, it is about options and filling voids.

I have absolutely no argument, if Benning feels he does not have that

But I feel he thinks he does

And it appears that he does

and again, we would have 5 years to find a replacement, of a position which is easiest to fill....

 

Meaning #1 and 2 Centers and #1 and 2 Dmen would be the hardest, and then Goalie, then wings

So, yes Toffoli is a luxury, but as I implied and I know you know what I mean...……...

Boeser then become expendable, to fill in a different hole...……….and I do not take Boeser lightly

He is a fantastic find and a quality forward

 

But the question in my mind is the player moved (Boeser) bring us something we could really use? Aka a #2 RHD.

I am not sold on Dumba, but does that kind of play exist here, somewhere in our system? I say no.

 

Where as Toffoli and Podkolzin, and to a lesser degree Virtanen, gives us that, in different ways

 

At worst, it is a saw off, meaning trading skill for skill, for positional need

At best, it allows us a much stronger top 6 forward or top 4 dmen.

 

But as Joe says, in Benning we trust. I am just voicing an alternative

Hey man I like this argument. And i must say you raise valid points. I'm super excited to discuss this. Theres my thinking. Toffoli has been really great for us. 100%. Jim benning hit a home run acquiring him for what he did when he did. However once your season ends I view him as a UFA. You know he want s to go back to LA. So to me I'd rather just sign a UfA RD or a UFA LW than sign toffoli and trade boeser for one. 

 

Cut the middle man out if you will.

Edited by 73 Percent
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2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

This is where a  gm makes his keep...……..

 

So with in 18 months or 1 more season, we will have this on the right side...…...

 

Toffoli

Boeser

Virtanen

Podkolzin…………...ready in 2 years

MacEwen…………...ready next year

Lind...……………….ready in 2 years

 

So the question what is each players actual ceiling

 

IMO, this is where Benning deals from. This is the strongest position organizationally, and is Benning's strongest position of value.

 

I do not think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out who is moved, if Toffoli can be signed.

 

If Benning thinks all players will turn out as projected, it makes for a very interesting summer...…...

In order, I have my right side as:

1. Tyler Toffoli- in a short audition, he showed amazing chemistry with Miller and Petey. I want to see him through the course of an entire season.

2. Bock Boeser- had early success with Bo Horvat. I see no reason why that can't be rekindled.

3. Jake Virtanen- had a career season until it's premature end. Has turned into a great 3rd line winger who can move up when needed.

4. Zack Macewen- showed he belonged. His abrasive, combative style is desperately needed in this lineup.

5. Vasily Podkolzin- another abrasive, edgy player with a higher skill level then Macewen. Don't know how combative he is but, have a feeling we're going to find out.

6. Kole Lind- has worked hard in the A, and is starting to provide great stat lines. It's been said he needs another season of development before he's ready but, it does sound like he's going to be in.

With all these names in the fold, the only way they can all get in is if, at least, one of them crosses over to the left side.

I looked up Tyler Toffoli's production on IcyData. Most of his production is in front of the net but, more importantly, 13% of his offence came from the left side vs 8% coming from the right. Statistically, he's more effective from the left leading to the idea that he might be a natural to move to LW, opening the extra spot needed for Pods.

The lineup could then balance out to something like:

 

Miller               Petey               Boeser

Toffoli              Horvat              Virtanen

Pearson          Gaudette         Podkolzin

Roussel          Beagle             Macewen

Lind

My hope is to see Lind get a couple call ups next season so we can see his game and potential for the team.

If his showings are strong, I wouldn't be opposed  to see Eriksson play in the A for the last season of his contract to open up the spot for Lind.

Of course this is easier said then done and this will not be, at all, how it shakes out but it does look interesting and balanced.

For all we know, Lukas Jasek could come out of nowhere and be the perfect match for Miller and Petey, and make us all look foolish.

 

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1 hour ago, 73 Percent said:

Hey man I like this argument. And i must say you raise valid points. I'm super excited to discuss this. Theres my thinking. Toffoli has been really great for us. 100%. Jim benning hit a home run acquiring him for what he did when he did. However once your season ends I view him as a UFA. You know he want s to go back to LA. So to me I'd rather just sign a UfA RD or a UFA LW than sign toffoli and trade boeser for one. 

 

Cut the middle man out if you will.

I have not heard he wants to back to LA.....that is news, where did you hear about that?

 

OK, let's just for $&!#s and giggles, say that Toffoli wants to stay...……….6 Million 5 year, that is basically Boeser money

 

So, if we were looking to move Boeser, what does he bring us back?

 

IMO...….a very young high end Dman, that will grow with the core...……….

 

Adam Fox, Victor Soderstrom, Cal Foote, Noah Dobson, Mathew Robertson, K'Andre Miller, Josh Brooks, Nils Lundqvist, Romanov

 

or do we go with the established defensemen in 

 

Matt Dumba, Brett Pesce, Rasmus Ristolainen, Damon Severson, Anthony DeAngelo

 

So, I am not saying any of them are more or less equal to Brock Boeser, nor am I saying that they are all available, and there would have to be some 

 

fiddling of pluses....but some of these guys would certainly up grade our defense now and in the future...……..

 

To me, it is a question, that only a few know...…..I am not one of them, I just ask the questions

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13 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Hey man I like this argument. And i must say you raise valid points. I'm super excited to discuss this. Theres my thinking. Toffoli has been really great for us. 100%. Jim benning hit a home run acquiring him for what he did when he did. However once your season ends I view him as a UFA. You know he want s to go back to LA. So to me I'd rather just sign a UfA RD or a UFA LW than sign toffoli and trade boeser for one. 

 

Cut the middle man out if you will.

Do we? I mean yeah, his wife is from there yada, yada but they're going to be a basement, rebuilding team for a good few years. Does he want to spend the meat of his prime on a basement, rebuilding team? Nevermind whether you've asked yourself if L.A. would even want him back given they're rebuilding.

 

Largely the same in Anaheim (though they're a year or two ahead).

 

Does he want to gamble San Jose can recover from this year and go there?

 

Vancouver might in fact be the best team that's semi-close to L.A. / on the west coast. The Canucks also have a reputation as a solid, first class organization that treats players well and it's a beautiful city. Personally, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we have a very solid chance at re-signing him.

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1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Do we? I mean yeah, his wife is from there yada, yada but they're going to be a basement, rebuilding team for a good few years. Does he want to spend the meat of his prime on a basement, rebuilding team? Nevermind whether you've asked yourself if L.A. would even want him back given they're rebuilding.

 

Largely the same in Anaheim (though they're a year or two ahead).

 

Does he want to gamble San Jose can recover from this year and go there?

 

Vancouver might in fact be the best team that's semi-close to L.A. / on the west coast. The Canucks also have a reputation as a solid, first class organization that treats players well and it's a beautiful city. Personally, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we have a very solid chance at re-signing him.

Yeah I agree we have a chance at resigning him for sure.  I guess I'm more assuming he wants to go back to LA. More so than others. The way I see it is we have just as good of a chance to resign him as any other team. Hey if we can get him at 6 mill for a 4 or 5 years sure let's do it. 

 

I dont think that gets it done though. He'll likely have better offers elsewhere. 

 

Let me ask you this. Are you willing to give him 8 mill for 6 years? I wouldn't be.

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2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Yeah I agree we have a chance at resigning him for sure.  I guess I'm more assuming he wants to go back to LA. More so than others. The way I see it is we have just as good of a chance to resign him as any other team. Hey if we can get him at 6 mill for a 4 or 5 years sure let's do it. 

 

I dont think that gets it done though. He'll likely have better offers elsewhere. 

 

Let me ask you this. Are you willing to give him 8 mill for 6 years? I wouldn't be.

I'm sure if L.A. was closer to a contender, he'd love to go back. They're not.

 

Given the likely cap constraints with the shortened season, how close most teams are to the cap etc, I doubt anyone offers him anywhere close to $8m. He's a +/- 50 point winger, not some PPG phenom.

 

Most of the teams better than us have even less cap space and/or are even further from the West coast. A few teams worse than us might have interest in signing him and have space but again, then he's wasting the meat of his prime on a poor team and/or further from the West coast again.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm sure if L.A. was closer to a contender, he'd love to go back. They're not.

 

Given the likely cap constraints with the shortened season, how close most teams are to the cap etc, I doubt anyone offers him anywhere close to $8m. He's a +/- 50 point winger, not some PPG phenom.

 

Most of the teams better than us have even less cap space and/or are even further from the West coast. A few teams worse than us might have interest in signing him and have space but again, then he's wasting the meat of his prime on a poor team and/or further from the West coast again.

So what... you dont think he has a chance to go anywhere... at all... we're his only option. He's going to sign with us for next to nothing. 

 

Just remember.

 

Kevin hayes 7.125m 7 yrs nmc. Less than a year ago.

 

Jvr 7m 5 yrs 2 years ago.

 

Anders lee. 7m 7yrs. Ntc Less than a year ago. (This was just a resign)

 

If he resigned with us I cant see it being less than 7x7.

Edited by 73 Percent
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

So what... you dont think he has a chance to go anywhere... at all... we're his only option. He's going to sign with us for next to nothing. 

 

Just remember.

 

Kevin hayes 7.125m 7 yrs nmc. Less than a year ago.

 

Jvr 7m 5 yrs 2 years ago.

 

Anders lee. 7m 7yrs. Ntc Less than a year ago. (This was just a resign)

 

If he resigned with us I cant see it being less than 7x7.

Never said that, let's not straw man. But I think it's pretty clear we're one of his better choices (and with some solid players in Pettersson, Miller, Horvat and his best bud Pearson to play with to boot).

 

First it was $8m, now it's $7m...

 

Toffoli doesn't have any of those guys size and JVR has historically been closer to a  60+/- point vs 50 point guy but sure, they're higher end 'comparables' (with accompanying higher end price tags). 

 

Edited by aGENT

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Yeah I agree we have a chance at resigning him for sure.  I guess I'm more assuming he wants to go back to LA. More so than others. The way I see it is we have just as good of a chance to resign him as any other team. Hey if we can get him at 6 mill for a 4 or 5 years sure let's do it. 

 

I dont think that gets it done though. He'll likely have better offers elsewhere. 

 

Let me ask you this. Are you willing to give him 8 mill for 6 years? I wouldn't be.

Nope. I wouldn't. I think he's a great addition, he's got skill, snarl and also has chemistry with Pearson as well. It would be great to see him for a full year with the team.  Like you mentioned, around 6 mil at 4 or 5 years is solid. Only time will tell.

 

Anyway, isn't this the Podkolzin thread? 

Edited by BarnBurner
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10 hours ago, aGENT said:

Do we? I mean yeah, his wife is from there yada, yada but they're going to be a basement, rebuilding team for a good few years. Does he want to spend the meat of his prime on a basement, rebuilding team? Nevermind whether you've asked yourself if L.A. would even want him back given they're rebuilding.

 

Largely the same in Anaheim (though they're a year or two ahead).

 

Does he want to gamble San Jose can recover from this year and go there?

 

Vancouver might in fact be the best team that's semi-close to L.A. / on the west coast. The Canucks also have a reputation as a solid, first class organization that treats players well and it's a beautiful city. Personally, I think it's a pretty safe bet that we have a very solid chance at re-signing him.

All good points, but he does have a cup already so returning to a rebuilding LA isn't a bad idea. Wouldn't be too bad of an idea to just go home to LA and chill in California with his family. I am really hoping he likes it here though, and maybe LA isn't interested in bringing him back. Although I am not sure why they wouldn't want him back. Has playoff experience and is a great player for any team's young kids to learn from.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes up. He seemingly had instant chemistry with the team and with him our right wing depth is really good. I like our chances of bringing him back, just a matter of what his feelings are. This pandemic might make him want to play at home even more. Regardless of their on ice performance. 

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10 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

All good points, but he does have a cup already so returning to a rebuilding LA isn't a bad idea. Wouldn't be too bad of an idea to just go home to LA and chill in California with his family. I am really hoping he likes it here though, and maybe LA isn't interested in bringing him back. Although I am not sure why they wouldn't want him back. Has playoff experience and is a great player for any team's young kids to learn from.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes up. He seemingly had instant chemistry with the team and with him our right wing depth is really good. I like our chances of bringing him back, just a matter of what his feelings are. This pandemic might make him want to play at home even more. Regardless of their on ice performance. 

If he sees how the US is handling this pandemic, perhaps he's glad to be out of that country. 

 

As mentioned already, even if he wants to go back to LA, does LA want him back? Is Toffoli willing to take a pay cut to play there as they're likely not wanting to pay top dollar for tank years where all he would do is make their team better (and thus go against the tank nation). If they want experience for their future young players, they already have Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Carter and Quick still there with the first two likely being career guys (Quick as well, but I suspect he isn't going to last much longer).

 

His wife was here and didn't come off as someone who hated being here and seemed to actually be welcomed and taking part in the activities here rather than be some depressed isolated individual that wants nothing but to go back home. I was most worried about this, but seeing her response makes me feel very comfortable that we could re-sign him as long as it makes sense to us and we can fit him into our cap.

 

Oh and as for Podkolzin, it's too bad that the season had to be cut short and this playoff experience would've been good for his development and he was just starting to find his groove. Hopefully he picks up where he left off next season and is able to leap back to the development track that he was on.

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On 3/29/2020 at 8:33 PM, N7Nucks said:

All good points, but he does have a cup already so returning to a rebuilding LA isn't a bad idea. Wouldn't be too bad of an idea to just go home to LA and chill in California with his family. I am really hoping he likes it here though, and maybe LA isn't interested in bringing him back. Although I am not sure why they wouldn't want him back. Has playoff experience and is a great player for any team's young kids to learn from.

 

It's gonna be interesting to see how it all shakes up. He seemingly had instant chemistry with the team and with him our right wing depth is really good. I like our chances of bringing him back, just a matter of what his feelings are. This pandemic might make him want to play at home even more. Regardless of their on ice performance. 

Don’t forget he is good friends with pearson as well

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6 hours ago, Hamhuis Hip Check said:

Don’t forget he is good friends with pearson as well

Who is a UFA next season and could walk as well. Not trying to be a downer, but lets be real there are worse places to ride out your career than LA even if they are rebuilding. I would absolutely love keeping Toffoli and Pearson long term. They are great pieces to surround the Pettersson's and the Boeser's and the Hughes'. Hopefully Toffoli sticks around. I think he would have a lot to teach Podkolzin, just to bring up the main topic of the thread. Lol.

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quality over quantity....Podz, Boeser, Toffoli, Lind/ MacEwen....move Jake to the left side....we may have both... quality and quantity.

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I don't know what the heck he said....it might have been, "Start gathering in groups and have lots of social contact", for all I know.  But I do like how intensely he said it and how thick his neck looks.  Those two things bode well for his future as a Canuck!

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2 hours ago, Stierlitz said:

And back to Podkolzin... Vasily is helping old people in Saint Petersburg during this coronavirus pandemic by delivering ordered food to their homes:

Awesome post thanks. And even more awesome story. Vasili will become like the next Linden or Sedin with this behaviour!

 

I'm so impressed.

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I'm feeling there will be a one time exemption to dump some of these salaries ( Erikson,Baerchi  ) that  are preventing teams from keeping under a lower cap next year.The union will sacrifice the few for the many..I'm betting this is going to happen soon

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