iinatcc Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 17 hours ago, NaveJoseph said: And people are crying about us giving a 2020 conditional 1st for Miller. Toronto gave a conditional 2020 1st just to give up Marleau haha But it does expose Benning a bit in that he's just not that good with trades especially when the Canes getting so much by taking a top 6 forward and Vancouver, in contrast, are the ones that gave up so much 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, iinatcc said: But it does expose Benning a bit in that he's just not that good with trades especially when the Canes getting so much by taking a top 6 forward and Vancouver, in contrast, are the ones that gave up so much Are you comparing 26 year old JT Miller and his excellent deal to grandpa Pat and his anchor of a deal? Not even close to the same situation, other than both were trades 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vannuck59 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 JB should have made this trade, Canes made out like bandits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 17 hours ago, thrago said: I'm guessing if the conversation happened with Benning he wasn't willing to waste the cap room as he might want to try to sign some players, also the Loungo thing is hanging over his head atm. If Marleau was willing to play in Van then I'm sure JB would have been all over it. I think that would factor in fairly heavily - I imagine a team like Van would have preferred him to play it out here, and apparently he wants a buyout - so waived for Carolina. Additionally, I imagine Toronto might see a benefit in moving him to Carolina - after all, that's an Eastern conference team, one that Ron Francis set up fairly nicely, to compete into the forseeable future - and Toronto just saddled them - a competitor in their Conference, with some dead cap (but gave them a decent future in the process). The benefit of that dead cap though is in the next few years, whereas that prospect is probably years away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) nvmd Edited June 23, 2019 by oldnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, iinatcc said: But it does expose Benning a bit in that he's just not that good with trades especially when the Canes getting so much by taking a top 6 forward and Vancouver, in contrast, are the ones that gave up so much You could argue that the Canes did a better job of weaponizing cap space than the Canucks. But the Canucks got a top 6 forward with size going into his prime, and the Canes got an over the hill Marleau. I was mainly comparing the Vancouver and Toronto sides of the trades because both teams gave up conditional 1st round picks. But anyway, the Canes got a $6.25M cap hit that they are going to buy out, and the Canucks got a bargain $5.25M cap hit for a young player that will help us make the playoffs. A boon of Miller's contract is that it's a four year deal that will look much better as comparable players are given more in free agency. Giving up a conditional 1st rounder is tough, but teams give up more for rentals at the trade deadline. Now that we have Miller, we can focus our resources on getting a top 4 defenseman. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 I saw we trade two of Sutter, Spooner, Baertschi and try for another top 6 forward in free agency. Go after Anton Stralman in FA instead of Myers or Gardiner. The forward market is a lot deeper than the defense market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrissex95 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 10 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: I saw we trade two of Sutter, Spooner, Baertschi and try for another top 6 forward in free agency. Go after Anton Stralman in FA instead of Myers or Gardiner. The forward market is a lot deeper than the defense market. How do you propose we move Spooner or even Baertschi for that manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 15 hours ago, stawns said: Are you comparing 26 year old JT Miller and his excellent deal to grandpa Pat and his anchor of a deal? Not even close to the same situation, other than both were trades There are similarities like The Leafs and The Blots needed to get rid of these contract due to cap issues and Marleau is still a good player. I am not saying Vancouver should have gotten the same deal as the Canes but the disparity between the two is gigantic considering both the Leafs and the Blots were in the same position and were not dealing in the position of strength. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 hours ago, iinatcc said: There are similarities like The Leafs and The Blots needed to get rid of these contract due to cap issues and Marleau is still a good player. I am not saying Vancouver should have gotten the same deal as the Canes but the disparity between the two is gigantic considering both the Leafs and the Blots were in the same position and were not dealing in the position of strength. Wrong! Tampa was not in the same position. Miller at this stage is much better than a declining Marleau. Tampa didn't trade Miller because they thought he sucked and were desperate to move him. Miller is a legit top-6 player with no trade protection that many teams would have wanted, as opposed to an anchor that is Marleau. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said: Wrong! Tampa was not in the same position. Miller at this stage is much better than a declining Marleau. Tampa didn't trade Miller because they thought he sucked and were desperate to move him. Miller is a legit top-6 player with no trade protection that many teams would have wanted, as opposed to an anchor that is Marleau. Marleau lifted his clause with the understanding that he would be bought out. He wants to return to the Sharks. His family already moved back to California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, mll said: Marleau lifted his clause with the understanding that he would be bought out. He wants to return to the Sharks. His family already moved back to California. Yeah, and Carolina will be on the hook for his entire cap hit for two years because he was over 35 when he signed that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 35 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said: Wrong! Tampa was not in the same position. Miller at this stage is much better than a declining Marleau. Tampa didn't trade Miller because they thought he sucked and were desperate to move him. Miller is a legit top-6 player with no trade protection that many teams would have wanted, as opposed to an anchor that is Marleau. Thats not really accurate. Tampa is in the same pinch to get the extention done for Brayden Point. They had to move someone and clear some cap space. Marleau really isn't that bad to take on either. He has 1 year left at 6m. He easily slots into the middle 6 and still can produce some value. Again the leafs would easily keep him if it wasn't for the fact they need the space for Marner. The real differences here are the NMC, he wasn't waiving to go anywhere besides SJ, Tampa didn't have to deal with that at all. Also the Canes buyout is significantly more than just taking the contract on for the year, and its not like the Canes are getting a choice on it. If we were buying out Miller so he could resign with xyz team then we would damn sure be getting picks back. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, The Great Canucks said: Yeah, and Carolina will be on the hook for his entire cap hit for two years because he was over 35 when he signed that contract. Only this season. They have the cap space and he doesn't use a roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, LarsEller said: Thats not really accurate. Tampa is in the same pinch to get the extention done for Brayden Point. They had to move someone and clear some cap space. Marleau really isn't that bad to take on either. He has 1 year left at 6m. He easily slots into the middle 6 and still can produce some value. Again the leafs would easily keep him if it wasn't for the fact they need the space for Marner. The real differences here are the NMC, he wasn't waiving to go anywhere besides SJ, Tampa didn't have to deal with that at all. Also the Canes buyout is significantly more than just taking the contract on for the year, and its not like the Canes are getting a choice on it. If we were buying out Miller so he could resign with xyz team then we would damn sure be getting picks back. Marleau was a cap dump Miller was a hockey trade. Completely different trades. It's like TML trading Nylander instead of marleau. One is a valuable player other is a cap dump.. Ppl need to realise there was a market for Miller. Palat Killorn Johnson would have been cheaper from TBL. We got a power forward. 26 years old. 50 plus pts player. A player JB targeted because this team desperately needed a player like him. EP Boeser can't dig pucks and work the boards. This is the player we hope Virtanen could have become. Please guys . There is a huge difference here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: Marleau was a cap dump Miller was a hockey trade. Completely different trades. It's like TML trading Nylander instead of marleau. One is a valuable player other is a cap dump.. Ppl need to realise there was a market for Miller. Palat Killorn Johnson would have been cheaper from TBL. We got a power forward. 26 years old. 50 plus pts player. A player JB targeted because this team desperately needed a player like him. EP Boeser can't dig pucks and work the boards. This is the player we hope Virtanen could have become. Please guys . There is a huge difference here. Your misunderstanding what I was saying. I'm not in the camp of these being the same. The Marleau trade is a minor cap dump, easy to take on for a team like the Canes for 1 season. Hell he could have easily played for them this year. If it was only that the return would have been significantly less coming their way. Because they are buying him out so he can resign in SJ and taking his cap hit for 2 years the cost goes way up because they get nothing and it's more than just a cap dump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Your misunderstanding what I was saying. I'm not in the camp of these being the same. The Marleau trade is a minor cap dump, easy to take on for a team like the Canes for 1 season. Hell he could have easily played for them this year. If it was only that the return would have been significantly less coming their way. Because they are buying him out so he can resign in SJ and taking his cap hit for 2 years the cost goes way up because they get nothing and it's more than just a cap dump. Cap hit is for 1 year and not 2. They have the cap space. Carolina bought themselves a 1st round pick for 3.8M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Your misunderstanding what I was saying. I'm not in the camp of these being the same. The Marleau trade is a minor cap dump, easy to take on for a team like the Canes for 1 season. Hell he could have easily played for them this year. If it was only that the return would have been significantly less coming their way. Because they are buying him out so he can resign in SJ and taking his cap hit for 2 years the cost goes way up because they get nothing and it's more than just a cap dump. Marleau would not help the Canucks team at all. Remember last year EP went to boards to retrieve the puck got thrown down and injured in FLD. Then same vs MTL when he hurt his knee. Both times he was alone trying to get puck behind the net in O zone. Boeser can't do that either. He's a shooter. He can't be the board player and puck retriever. He's not that player. EP needs a Miller type really bad. Just like Bo and Pearson need a skilled passer on their line. Nyquist or Panarin. We are going to waste EPs talent and put him in bad position unless we give him a power forward Miller is what we hope Virtanen could develop into. I didn't think it was a great trade when first heard. Thought our 40th plus 3rd plus B prospect would be going other way. But it's a good trade. Good to show EP that he's going to get a very good player to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, mll said: Cap hit is for 1 year and not 2. They have the cap space. Carolina bought themselves a 1st round pick for 3.8M. They are buying him out so he can sign in SJ, and he is over 35 so the buyout penalty will go over 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, LarsEller said: They are buying him out so he can sign in SJ, and he is over 35 so the buyout penalty will go over 2 years. It's a 1 year penalty. CapFriendly has a buyout calculator: https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/patrick-marleau#results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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