GreyHatnDart Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Baggins said: To me there's a difference between clearing cap space and a cap dump. The former being a player that is well worth his contract and easily traded and the latter being a player not living up to his cap hit and/or salary who you essentially have to pay to take him off your hands. Imo the fact Tampa needed cap space is completely irrelevant to this trade. Miller had no restrictive ntc of any form. Had Arizona offered say a late second (far less than he's worth) should no GM in need of a top 6 forward offer more simply because Tampa needs cap space? Totally foolish. You'd be doing Arizona a huge favor. The opposite is also true, why would offense starved teams like Anaheim, LA, Dallas, Minnesota, or Arizona let Benning get Miller at a bargain price when they're in need of such a player themselves? Agreed Baggins. We have no idea who else was kicking the tires and what else they were offering. The biggest contention obviously is our 1st rounder... the way the lineup is shaping up does anyone seriously think we're going to be a high percentage lottery team this season? Even then, god forbid the wheels completely fall off and we DO end up out of the playoffs, its protected until the following season for God's sake! I love talking hockey, arguing the merits of this trade or that signing... I just can't debate with people so dead set on remembering Bennings mistakes along the way that any actual smart, strategic move he makes now in their minds is garbage. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Silver Ghost Posted July 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 hours ago, The 5th Line said: It doesn't make to say he went for market value when the centerpiece from our end is a conditional pick. Could be anywhere from 1st overall to 30th. The narrative will change from it being a good deal real quick if we make the playoffs and get bounced within 5 games and surrender a 18th overall pick. Adding a potential star piece that can be a part of this organization for 10 - 15 years is much more important at this point in time as opposed to a few games of playoff experience. The GM wants playoffs so he can add it to his resume to help any future business endeavors and the owner wants playoffs so he can make some cash. Trading firsts is the easiest way to do those two things. The fans want a great team with sustainable success and a championship, trading firsts is not ideal for this situation. Us the fans are just sheep following along because we have no choice. We want to stay positive so of course we will try to say it was a fair deal but in reality we are watching our future dwindle during this playoff' arms race. Consider ourselves lucky. No long term plan should involve banking on free agents to sign with us year after year. What if Myers or Ferland decided to sign somewhere else? We wouldn't be anywhere close and would still be lacking the same amount of assets. Do you understand the concept of calculated risk? Theoretically, the pick could be 1st to 31st. But what is the realistic chance it ends up a lottery pick next year? The Canucks making the playoffs this year or next is a pretty high percentage chance vs the alternative of not making the playoffs and finishing bottom of the league the next two years. Name the last 18th overall pick that stepped in and was an immediate star in the league. Hell, who was the last 18th overall that stepped in and was immediately a better, more versatile player than JT Miller? I know its hard for some fans to see that the Canucks are shifting from being completely reliant on the draft. They now need to start taking advantage of as many prime years as possible from their young core group by surrounding them with quality players. Thats what Benning is doing. Tampa may draft a star player with that pick a year or two years from now. But the Canucks would have to "waste" 2 years of prime EP, Horvat, Bo, and Hughes time to pick high. Its a great show of faith by the Canucks at exactly the right time. Doesnt mean it cant backfire, it just means the calculated risk is sufficiently low to make this a good trade now and even in hindsight if a good player is picked. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckGAME Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 55 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: You made yourself look like a fool with your silly attitude. No use reading the rest. Says the guy who agrees with the homer who says Miller will score more points than Matt ****in Duchene. Miss me with your ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WHL rocks Posted July 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) On 7/16/2019 at 11:56 PM, CanuckGAME said: This is just embarrassing to read. I think Millier is going to be great. But to say hes going to score more points than Matt Duchene really just shows your level of knowledge on the players. And the game in general. I would bet money you've never even watched Miller play and you're just typing your posts mindlessly. Duchene scored 70 pts last season in 73 games. JT Miller doesnt have that type of Offensive potential. I know you're going to argue with me on this fact, and you go right on ahead, but take your homer goggles off and use your head. Quote Says the guy who agrees with the homer who says Miller will score more points than Matt ****in Duchene. Last 3 seasons Duchene 70+59+41=170 Pts. Miller 58+56+43=157 Pts. Duchene 28 years old now so was in his prime last 2 season. Miller was 23,24,25 yrs old those seasons. Last year was Duchene's UFA contract year so he had a career year. Surprising... He was also playing 1C offensive role. Miller played mostly wing and middle 6 with mostly 3rd line TOI. If Miller EP BB are a line they will be a powerhouse offensive line.. Miller going into his prime year at 26 yrs old. He's got EP (one year older and stronger) as his C and BB as a sniper on other wing. Miller already has scored three 20 goal seasons but he's a guy who has the ability to make a very good pass. A better passer than scorer. Edited July 18, 2019 by WHL rocks 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, The 5th Line said: It doesn't make to say he went for market value when the centerpiece from our end is a conditional pick. Could be anywhere from 1st overall to 30th. The narrative will change from it being a good deal real quick if we make the playoffs and get bounced within 5 games and surrender a 18th overall pick. Adding a potential star piece that can be a part of this organization for 10 - 15 years is much more important at this point in time as opposed to a few games of playoff experience. The GM wants playoffs so he can add it to his resume to help any future business endeavors and the owner wants playoffs so he can make some cash. Trading firsts is the easiest way to do those two things. The fans want a great team with sustainable success and a championship, trading firsts is not ideal for this situation. Us the fans are just sheep following along because we have no choice. We want to stay positive so of course we will try to say it was a fair deal but in reality we are watching our future dwindle during this playoff' arms race. Consider ourselves lucky. No long term plan should involve banking on free agents to sign with us year after year. What if Myers or Ferland decided to sign somewhere else? We wouldn't be anywhere close and would still be lacking the same amount of assets. Franchise defining player at 18th overall? Slim chance. Actually a cherry picker of a chance. Ease up on the drama boys. Geez. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad alice french Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Silver Ghost said: stepped 3 hours ago, Silver Ghost said: Do you understand the concept of calculated risk? Theoretically, the pick could be 1st to 31st. But what is the realistic chance it ends up a lottery pick next year? The Canucks making the playoffs this year or next is a pretty high percentage chance vs the alternative of not making the playoffs and finishing bottom of the league the next two years. Name the last 18th overall pick that stepped in and was an immediate star in the league. Hell, who was the last 18th overall that stepped in and was immediately a better, more versatile player than JT Miller? I know its hard for some fans to see that the Canucks are shifting from being completely reliant on the draft. They now need to start taking advantage of as many prime years as possible from their young core group by surrounding them with quality players. Thats what Benning is doing. Tampa may draft a star player with that pick a year or two years from now. But the Canucks would have to "waste" 2 years of prime EP, Horvat, Bo, and Hughes time to pick high. Its a great show of faith by the Canucks at exactly the right time. Doesnt mean it cant backfire, it just means the calculated risk is sufficiently low to make this a good trade now and even in hindsight if a good player is picked. Beautiful. Pretty much summarizes my dismay towards draftists in one post. What? Sit around and continue to suck fir 3-4 more years hoping to win the jackpot? Youth at all costs? Please. Mid love to know how much heavy lifting you g draft picks have made towards hoisting the past dozen cups or so. Someone please round up some stats. It’s time to get going on this. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, bad alice french said: Beautiful. Pretty much summarizes my dismay towards draftists in one post. What? Sit around and continue to suck fir 3-4 more years hoping to win the jackpot? Youth at all costs? Please. Mid love to know how much heavy lifting you g draft picks have made towards hoisting the past dozen cups or so. Someone please round up some stats. It’s time to get going on this. These “fans” seem to think guys like Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes and Demko are going to be perfectly happy playing bottom feeder for the next 3-4 years... lol. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckels Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) Mark my words. We are going into the playoffs and j.t. Miller scores 25 at least Edited July 18, 2019 by canuckels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Amebushi said: To the people that hate this trade I have a question. Not a judgement, but an honest question. What other moves could JB have done to improve the team more or as much for fewer assets. JT is debatably a top line player but generally accepted as an NHL level top six. He is a big body, plays a solid 200 foot game and can play all three forward positions. He has demonstrated enough skill to fit in on a top line as well as grind it out on the third or fourth when needed. Additionally he is in the right age group for our core and locked into a reasonable contract. What other player could we have picked up for a conditional first and a third that would be better? I don’t believe that he could have been had a lot cheaper or that JB wouldn’t have tried to get him for less. What else is out there actually available at around that value that’s better than JT Miller? If I could have signed Ferland & Myers, not traded a 1st for Miller? At the tags they signed for... i would have been thrilled! ill still take it. My nerves about trading for Miller were eased considerably knowing it was for an improved team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Baggins Posted July 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2019 4 hours ago, GreyHatnDart said: Agreed Baggins. We have no idea who else was kicking the tires and what else they were offering. The biggest contention obviously is our 1st rounder... the way the lineup is shaping up does anyone seriously think we're going to be a high percentage lottery team this season? Even then, god forbid the wheels completely fall off and we DO end up out of the playoffs, its protected until the following season for God's sake! I love talking hockey, arguing the merits of this trade or that signing... I just can't debate with people so dead set on remembering Bennings mistakes along the way that any actual smart, strategic move he makes now in their minds is garbage. If it had been our 2019 1st + 3rd I would agree it's too much. But the fact Tampa may have to wait two years for that first, and have no idea where it will be in that round, I think it's quite reasonable with it protected for next year. People seem to ignore the fact Tampa may have to wait two years to receive the primary piece in the deal. That alone means payment should be a tad higher. I don't see us missing the playoffs for two more years so I feel the odds are high Tampa is waiting for a bottom half 1st rounder. I don't mind that deal at all. 1 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I'm still happy that we got Podkolzin in the draft....this guy may end up being our best player along side EP40....he is that good! not to mention we have JT Miller, Ferland, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Hughes, Myers, Benn and others... who are on the verge of taking the next step including OJ, Tryamkin, Lind and Hoglander. JT Miller is going to be a beauty for us...it was only last year when I wished that we had a roster like the Flames....not anymore, I like this roster. Now it will be up to TG to put the players together to create maximum chemistry with each other. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Pete M said: I'm still happy that we got Podkolzin in the draft....this guy may end up being our best player along side EP40....he is that good! not to mention we have JT Miller, Ferland, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Hughes, Myers, Benn and others... who are on the verge of taking the next step including OJ, Tryamkin, Lind and Hoglander. JT Miller is going to be a beauty for us...it was only last year when I wished that we had a roster like the Flames....not anymore, I like this roster. Now it will be up to TG to put the players together to create maximum chemistry with each other. yuck! Edited July 18, 2019 by Hogs & Podz 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 8 hours ago, Hogs & Podz said: yuck! They have no goaltender, little Johnny and Sean tend to disappear when the going gets tough and Tkachuck is a face-punch-able douche but they've got a pretty darn good hockey team besides that and a FAR superior defense (so far) in particular (as much as I loath to admit it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs & Podz Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, aGENT said: They have no goaltender, little Johnny and Sean tend to disappear when the going gets tough and Tkachuck is a face-punch-able douche but they've got a pretty darn good hockey team besides that and a FAR superior defense (so far) in particular (as much as I loath to admit it). Hear, see and speak no evil! Lol. They're skilled yes... But they're soft too. And as you mentioned... Talbot's their saviour in net?! Yah... I love how their built... Because we're going to pummel them for years to come! Edited July 18, 2019 by Hogs & Podz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noseforthenet Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Pete M said: I'm still happy that we got Podkolzin in the draft....this guy may end up being our best player along side EP40....he is that good! not to mention we have JT Miller, Ferland, Boeser, Horvat, Pearson, Hughes, Myers, Benn and others... who are on the verge of taking the next step including OJ, Tryamkin, Lind and Hoglander. JT Miller is going to be a beauty for us...it was only last year when I wished that we had a roster like the Flames....not anymore, I like this roster. Now it will be up to TG to put the players together to create maximum chemistry with each other. Ya know, with how the team is progressing, I'm happy we got him too. Everyone is going to forget about him because he's a couple years out still. In 2 years, we should "theoretically" be able to make some noise in the playoffs. Adding this kid after could be like getting another free asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amebushi Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 10 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: If I could have signed Ferland & Myers, not traded a 1st for Miller? At the tags they signed for... i would have been thrilled! ill still take it. My nerves about trading for Miller were eased considerably knowing it was for an improved team. I wasn’t expecting an actual response...I can’t argue this viewpoint. I tend to think that taking action is always better than not doing anything. I hadn’t considered what we would look like with Myers and Ferland but not Miller. Genuinely curious if this trade would happen knowing Ferland was going to sign. The price was not cheap to get Miller but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Hogs & Podz said: Hear, see and speak no evil! Lol. Their skilled yes... But their soft too. And as you mentioned... Talbot's their saviour in net?! Yah... I love how their built... Because we're going to pummel them for years to come! What's good is that we are going to be able to play any way we want. If it's a speed game, we have plenty. If it gets more physical, we have guys that can play that way, too. If they want to get rough, we have guys that aren't afraid to mix it up and drop if need be. Teams like the Flames and Leafs are limited in that they cannot afford to do the latter, since their few players with grit will be taken out when there are altercations. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GhostsOf1994 Posted July 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2019 1 hour ago, The 5th Line said: Thomas Chabot 18th OA in 15' This team isn't in position to be giving up first round picks. Everyone is in a rush to just make the playoffs, like that's our Stanley cup. The low expectations are live and well. I like JT, I like that our team is better but I don't like the lack of young assets this team has in the pipeline nor do I like all the money we have tied up in overpayed free agents. This team still needs to add to the young core, not take away from it. I"d like to ask you a few things. What are the odds the 1st VAN traded Miller for becomes a player as good or better then Miller? Miller is a proven NHL player, a 1st is not. What's the odds a 3rd rounder even suits up professionally? AHL fodder? Mazanec is a win-win, make room for Kielly, Dipietro, Bachmann, Mcintyre, Latvian? How long will that player take to make an impact in the NHL if at all? At some point you need to trade an asset to make room for incoming bodies / get better now. Canucks are pretty set moving forward with prospects/roster players The argument i could make is we need better D and more higher end prospects there. How long would a D prospect drafted late in the 1st take to become a full time NHL d man? Add in the pick is 1-2 years from even being drafted, looking at what 3-5 years from 19/20 season? Ferland Pettersson Boeser Miller Horvat Pearson Baer Sutter Leivo Roussell Beagle Virtanen Motte Gaudette, Podkolzin, Goldobin, Karlsson, Hoglander, Lind, Lockwood, Madden, Jasek, Macewan.. plus more Edler Myers Hughes Tanev Benn Stecher Fantenberg Biega Tryamkin Juolevi Woo Rathbone Teves Rafferty Sautner Brisebois Again I'm sure i am missing a few Markstrom Demko Diepietro Kielly Bachmann Mcintyre Plus that latvian? This is a good trade and a little cheap by Benning, Miller adds to the core for 4 years. That's a win for the cost of a 1st and a 3rd. 1 4 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/17/2019 at 2:10 PM, GreyHatnDart said: The narrative of Canucks Twitterverse (the Chris Keehn's of the world), is that Benning overpaid a team that was looking for a "cap dump". I was told that Carolina was able to secure a first, and that it was the same situation... I honestly don't even know how to debate with people who think that way about the JT Miller trade. It blows my mind how absolute anti-Benning some fans are and anything he does is an absolutely huge mistake. Correct thanks. Lets say in 2 years we’re in cap trouble? We would have no trouble trading Bo Horvath for value to make cap. Loui Ericsson? Diff story. Marleau’s contract paid a first because it was pre agreed he would be bought out. Marceau himself would have blocked, he had an NMC, a move to teams not named SJ. Might have considered nearby LVK or Anaheim. But it why does rebuilding Anaheim want Marceau, same for Kings? Certainly not for $6 mill. Remains to be seen if SJ even offers 38 year old Marceau a min salary? And the Knights cannot afford cap of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Silver Ghost Posted July 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) On 7/19/2019 at 4:17 PM, The 5th Line said: Thomas Chabot 18th OA in 15' This team isn't in position to be giving up first round picks. Everyone is in a rush to just make the playoffs, like that's our Stanley cup. The low expectations are live and well. I like JT, I like that our team is better but I don't like the lack of young assets this team has in the pipeline nor do I like all the money we have tied up in overpayed free agents. This team still needs to add to the young core, not take away from it. Lets look at your example. He played 1 nhl game "immediately" then spent the full year back in junior. He then had a solid nhl season the next year. Then last year had a breakout year. So lets say peoples horrible outcome becomes reality and they get similar player with a similar reasonable trajectory off our pick. Thats draft year +2 to be a decent nhl'er. Draft +3 to have a breakout year. Meanwhile, those 2 or 3 years we have Miller hopefully being a solid top 6 player while EP, Bo, Boeser, Hughes are breaking out rather than waiting for that draft pick to develop before opening our contending window. The conditions on the pick make including it a huge nothing in the grand scheme of things. Its time to compete and surround the young core with the right kind of pieces. Which Miller is. Oh, and i have been a canucks fan for like 30 years and our prospect pool has arguably never been stronger and deeper top to bottom at all positions than it is now. Edited July 28, 2019 by Silver Ghost 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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