[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[EdgarM]

58 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Actually I think you're missing the point.  Players like Miller are strong complimentary guys.  They are your, Coyle's, Johansson's, Kane's and Hossa's.  Players that aren't core foundation pieces, but pieces that help push your core over the top into the next level.  And Canucks are not at that spot yet.  We still have missing pieces in our core.  aka our back end.  And You're not getting a core defensemen in UFA,  Myers and Gardiner aren't those types (they are miller caliber complementary pieces).  Canucks NEED a core piece on that back end.  A D you can build around.  

 

So instead of trading our most attractive piece at a discounted value for a complimentary filler, we should have been using that to obtain that missing core D.  I'm not against trading our first, but at this point we don't have a ton of tradable assets, so the ones we do have, need to go towards packaging up and filling core pieces.  

 

In two years if Canucks are back in the playoff spot and looking for a player to get us over the hump.  Then you go get that complimentary player (like Gillis thought he was doing with Booth).

 

 

I think you are underestimating Hughes and since when does the success or failure of a team fall completely on 1 defenseman? So when a team makes it to the final and they lose their top dman to injury they should just forfeit the rest of the games?

The 2011 Canucks and teams like TB does not guarantee you anything and teams like St. Louis and Vegas in their first year prove anything is possible depending on the 23 players on your roster.

I think the "Tank" philosophy has been proven ridiculous and the teams "Character" composition has a far more impact on a teams success in the playoffs then just pure talent alone.

Edited June 23, 2019 by EdgarM

[Jester13]

10 hours ago, Pete M said:

Yeah, did you watch the clip of him mic'd up ...good team guy and seems to be a character guy...always chatting it up

I did. Will fit in nicely and add to the team mentality.

 

10 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I hope people read this. One of the major issues of the EP-BB line was puck retrieval (with skill). Boeser has never been the greatest at this and EP would do it, but he often was the only one. By adding another decent PP guy also will push someone to the 2nd unit to make it more threatening.

Totes. Miller is great down low feeding his linemates, both five on five and on the pp - he's more if a playmaker than goal scorer.

 

10 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

JT needs to really work on his shot. (from that clip)

Like really really. Benning should tell him to work with Brock.

Watching highlights in addition to the mic'ed up shows he actually has a really good shot with silky hands. If he's feeding Petey and Brock and they're sniping it home then Miller's shot will mean little. 

 

9 hours ago, cuporbust said:

Miller wont fail per say. Like most said , he is a good all around addition.  Dont think many are arguing that, myself included.  What most are saying is we got fleeced by a cap strapped team in terms of cost. Plain and simple to me. 

If the pick was a 2nd instead of a 3rd and the prospect was someone like Lind, then I'd agree with you. But we esentially paid a mid to late 1st for a top 6 playmaking 50pt centre with size, who can also play wing. And he's signed well and long. 

 

This is a fair trade for both sides but still leaning to Van's favour. Miller is highly underrated compared to his peers, likely due to playing sidecar with the likes of Stamkos and Kuch. But if Miller is able to play with those guys and set them up all day, then he will do the same with our top young guys no problem. We are far from fleeced.

 

I bet Tampa will miss him in their lineup more as time goes on. 

[Pete M]

27 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said:

If we pay myer 6-7m he wont be used anywhere but the top pair, who is better than him on our team...not Stecher and Tanev should be sheltered to 17-20 min a night to hope he can stay healthy so he can be dealt at the deadline.

 

Myers if he signs will be the Edler of the right side, he will play 24-25min night sometimes more when called upon

off topic, I agree Edler..esque.

5 year deal at $5.5M per year would put him at 34 years old...he will maintain his current pay scale and sprinkle in some performance bonuses...his stats and current cap hit/ contract are below, plus he would be coming back to BC. Good chance Canucks get him for this term and amount.

[coryberg]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

 I think we see the very same defense as last year plus maybe one addition.

Same as last year? So you think we make a trade to get Guddy back and re-sign MDZ? Highly unlikely!

 

Is that one addition Quinn hughes? No? Maybe you think he is Utica bound? Even more unlikely.

 

You aren't thinking JB will get us a UFA or trade for another D? That is very unlikely.

 

You don't think OJ will make strides and force himself onto the roster at some point this year? I wouldn't bet against it.

[DryiceX]

9 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I bet Tampa will miss him in their lineup more as time goes on. 

I'm sure TB will be able to improve that position on their roster now that they have his cap space free and an extra first rounder to trade. I like the guy.. but Vancouver overpaid.  Hell, Jersey didnt even give up a first to get Schneider from the Canucks.. or a first to get subban from Nashville.   It shows the difference between a good Gm vs a mediocre won.

[Pete M]

1 minute ago, coryberg said:

Same as last year? So you think we make a trade to get Guddy back and re-sign MDZ? Highly unlikely!

 

Is that one addition Quinn hughes? No? Maybe you think he is Utica bound? Even more unlikely.

 

You aren't thinking JB will get us a UFA or trade for another D? That is very unlikely.

 

You don't think OJ will make strides and force himself onto the roster at some point this year? I wouldn't bet against it.

if he is healthy, best thing for OJ is to make the team out of training camp...I believe he will be an upgrade to Hutton and Pouliot right away.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, khay said:

You are probably right. More of a calculated risk rather than a desperate move.

 

More I learn about Miller, more I like his addition. I somehow assumed that he is under 200 pounds but he is 218!! More I think about it, he brings exactly what EP and Boeser needs on their line.

 

Someone raised a concern that Miller is a center so maybe he sucks on the wing. In that case, we can shift EP to LW, who has proven that he is even better scorer on LW.

 

EP-Miller-Boeser or Miller-EP-Boeser.

 

Either way, we have a first line.

 

 

 

 

I think Miller will likely take the draws, as EP struggled there.  However, I was impressed with Petey's defensive game, so he likely still plays centre, just doesn't take many draws until he improves that part of his game

[The Great Canucks]

6 minutes ago, DryiceX said:

I'm sure TB will be able to improve that position on their roster now that they have his cap space free and an extra first rounder to trade. I like the guy.. but Vancouver overpaid.  Hell, Jersey didnt even give up a first to get Schneider from the Canucks.. or a first to get subban from Nashville.   It shows the difference between a good Gm vs a mediocre won.

No, Vancouver didn't overpay. They paid fair market value for a top-6 player.

 

Umm, New Jersey gave up their 9th overall pick for Schneider, which we used to draft Horvat. What the hell are you talking about?

[Wilbur]

1 minute ago, The Great Canucks said:

No, Vancouver didn't overpay. They paid fair market value for a top-6 player.

 

Umm, New Jersey gave up their 9th overall pick for Schneider, which we used to draft Horvat. What the hell are you talking about?

99% of me says it was an honest mistake.  1% says he's going full Trump and trying to write revisionist history and if it gets repeated enough it will become true.

[Darius]

I like reading other team forums to see what the perception of moves made in Vancouver are.

 

I went over to Calgary puck, not even the fans there are mocking this trade like some local residents here are.  An interesting analogy was brought up though- the deal for Hamonic.

 

Hamonic - roughly the same age as Miller when trade was made - was acquired for a first rounder and 2 second round picks.  Solid top 4 defender who isnt going to light it up points wise.  The type of trade that improves your team but comes at a cost.

 

The first rounder was not lotto protected, and the Flames ended up missing the playoffs.  Was there a collective meltdown in the Calgary media and fanbase after they missed the playoffs and New York Islanders were handed a lotto ticket?  I doubt it because I suspect the fans realized the value such a player brought to their team. Imagine if that had happened here.....

 

Yeah yeah, Hamonic is a D and top 4 d are harder to come by.  But at the end of the day you want quality players you are gonna pay in terms of picks or dollars or other assets.

 

i think that management thinks Miller can step into the next tier - production wise - if he is given prime time here on the top 2 lines.  Lets see what the guy can do.

[cuporbust]

23 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I did. Will fit in nicely and add to the team mentality.

 

Totes. Miller is great down low feeding his linemates, both five on five and on the pp - he's more if a playmaker than goal scorer.

 

Watching highlights in addition to the mic'ed up shows he actually has a really good shot with silky hands. If he's feeding Petey and Brock and they're sniping it home then Miller's shot will mean little. 

 

If the pick was a 2nd instead of a 3rd and the prospect was someone like Lind, then I'd agree with you. But we esentially paid a mid to late 1st for a top 6 playmaking 50pt centre with size, who can also play wing. And he's signed well and long. 

 

This is a fair trade for both sides but still leaning to Van's favour. Miller is highly underrated compared to his peers, likely due to playing sidecar with the likes of Stamkos and Kuch. But if Miller is able to play with those guys and set them up all day, then he will do the same with our top young guys no problem. We are far from fleeced.

 

I bet Tampa will miss him in their lineup more as time goes on. 

It just seems like a very steep price.  Maybe it was the sportsnet radio hosts that got me worked up. Lol. I do like the player . Maybe it will turn out to be good return in time . 

[EliPeterson40]

16 minutes ago, DryiceX said:

I'm sure TB will be able to improve that position on their roster now that they have his cap space free and an extra first rounder to trade. I like the guy.. but Vancouver overpaid.  Hell, Jersey didnt even give up a first to get Schneider from the Canucks.. or a first to get subban from Nashville.   It shows the difference between a good Gm vs a mediocre won.

Lol where do you think Bo came from?

[coryberg]

2 hours ago, mpt said:

Which you had to give up a 1st and a 3rd.  Hayes cost a 5th to negotiate and sign him to UFA numbers,   I would rather have Hayes and keep a 1st rounder.  Would I trade Miller for Hayes? No way, but if this type of player was yourvtarget would I have traded for his rights and sign him for a larger contract to keep a 1st round pick, yes I would since the pick can easily be a lottery pick

I guess you didn't see that the pick is lottery protected, blinded by hate I guess.

[Baer.]

25 minutes ago, Pete M said:

off topic, I agree Edler..esque.

5 year deal at $5.5M per year would put him at 34 years old...he will maintain his current pay scale and sprinkle in some performance bonuses...his stats and current cap hit/ contract are below, plus he would be coming back to BC. Good chance Canucks get him for this term and amount.

He will want a raise. $6M+

[mpt]

2 minutes ago, coryberg said:

I guess you didn't see that the pick is lottery protected, blinded by hate I guess.

Except for the year after which then isn’t lottery protected, you must be blinded by reality.  So yet again, the pick can easily be a lottery pick.

Edited June 23, 2019 by mpt

[coryberg]

Just now, mpt said:

Except for the year after which then isn’t lottery protected, you must be blinded by reality

Nothing "easily" about that chicken little.

[mpt]

8 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Nothing "easily" about that chicken little.

We have equal likely as chance to miss the playoffs the next two years as to make it.  So yes it easily can be a lottery pick.  Some would say we have more of a chance to miss the playoffs then to make it.

 

But keep coming back with personal insults when you can’t understand a very simple point.

Edited June 23, 2019 by mpt

[stanleysteamersmyl]

5 hours ago, babalu said:

Tyler Meyers is going to get overpaid. 

We should go for Miller out of Vegas because we need more Millers! 

Then we should bring back Ryan Miller just to drive Shorty nuts.

Also sign Skinny Minnie Miller.  More toughness.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by stanleysteamersmyl

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

exactly, furthermore what pressure from ownership was there when the Sedins were on the team to stay competitive...thereby, delaying the true rebuild and getting zero assets for two HoF players...realistically, the on-ice rebuild started at the beginning of last year...so we are one year in, and no fruit (Dmen) of JB's tenure have made the team yet...(OJ, Tryamkin, Woo, Hughes, Brisbois...none were on the roster last year....if ownership is holding a gun to JB's head and making him make premature moves, then that is on ownership...if Canucks are not in the playoff this coming year, is JB's tenure done? If it is, then some other puppet will reap the reward of JB's tenure.

Yet another false narrative with zero evidence, the least of which being "coulda shoulda traded the Sedins".  The roster was nearly completely turned over by that point, save for Sedins, Edler, and Tanev.  The rebuild started when Benning got here.  Even the vaunted #shanaplan didn't come in kicking chairs over in their first year, and as I've said before, the current regime has done far FAR more of a rebuild than they did.

[coryberg]

Just now, mpt said:

We have equal likely as chance to miss the playoffs the next two years as to make it.  So yes it easily can be a lottery pick.  Some would say we have more of a chance to miss the playoffs then to make it.

Let me dumb this down to your level. You say it's even odds for us to make the playoffs or miss them. So flip a coin, then flip it again. The odds of you losing once are 50%.... the odds of losing twice in a row are 25%. Therefor the odds of you winning at least once is 75%.

 

75% odds are "easily" better.