captainhorvat Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: totally get it. Completely and utterly get it. The right hand side of the defensive ledger looks throw up bad. There are and were available players who could have improved the team instead the GM chose a LW. Regardless of how good he is this team need a RHD>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LW. Season doesnt start tomm... we have plenty of time to upgrade the D. Benning has clearly stated that the D will look differrnt next season and im confident it will. His jobs on the line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, grandmaster said: What can you do when jerks like Sakic want Boeser for Barrie? That’s the kind of crap JB was likely dealing with... Sakic is a tough negotiator but Subban and Risotolanien could've been had for that 1st for SURE. Considering Subban went for two 2nd's and a Lind and Gadjovich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman64 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: The goalie is irrelevant, the pick maybe a valuable player 4-5 years from now and the 3rd is 20% chance to play NHL hockey. Again no problem with any of that. Subban was available and easily obtainable. Barrie may have cost a 1st, Gaudette and Lind + whatever. Risotlanien I believe would be possible with a 1st +. Why was this not the priority? Now that the 1st is gone that is no longer really possible unless you deal someone off the core or Joulevi or Virtanen +++. Why sell low on those two? I don't like this from a team building perspective at all. Easy, that's a cap issue and we can do better in trades which JB is working on but it's a ways off to oct so it's a bit early to say he's done... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, captainhorvat said: Season doesnt start tomm... we have plenty of time to upgrade the D. Benning has clearly stated that the D will look differrnt next season and im confident it will. His jobs on the line. who do you have left to trade for that D? throwing a 5th round pick at a KHL All Star isn't going to cut it. The free agents are going to cost too much. You cant just wish it to come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: I could careless about the draft pick. I have had a million discussions on here on how overrated they are. This team just doesn't have a lot of trade chips. This was the biggest one. You don't send off the biggest trade chip for a LW not matter how solid of a player he is. I really like the player, cap hit, age and team fit. I think the deal is fair value and even somewhat of a steal. BUUUUUUT this team needs defense and Myers at 7x7 is not what I am looking for. Edler - Tanev Hughes - Stecher Hutton - Schenn Not the greatest but it's manageable. That said, I could see JB making a trade for another puck mover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, iceman64 said: Easy, that's a cap issue and we can do better in trades which JB is working on but it's a ways off to oct so it's a bit early to say he's done... I think people on here fail to see how little value Hutton, Tanev, Stecher, Sutter, Baertschi, etc have in a trade. You can't get a top 4 RHD for these kinds of players even if you spit ball them all together in one massive 7 for 1 trade. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, captainhorvat said: Is he from the local beer league? He is actually Tyler Myers' cousin who came with Tyler to check out Vancouver. or I just typed too fast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: You mean Stamkos and Hedman right? Let me know when the Canucks win the lotto and draft 1st or 2nd overall. I am fairly certain this team with with Matthews and Eichel would be a pretty sweet squad. People give too much credit to things that happen primarily by chance. No one would pass on Hedman or Stamkos at their draft positions. To get their draft positions took no skill. Much easier to build a team when you get gifted a number one center (richard winning) and a Norris winning number 1 defender. They definitely didnt take any shortcuts into getting incredibly lucky. 37 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I’m not going to go into detail here, but I think you owe it to yourself here to look up Tampa’s draft history. They are perhaps the very best at hitting gold, late, mid and whenever they make a pick. This isn’t a subjective opinion, it’s a fact. Do your homework. 31 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/draft.html# You can do your homework. He is a link to their drafting. Very underwhelming. The only substantial player they have drafted in the last 40 picks is Brayden Point. If the Canucks drafted 1st and 2nd overall in the last 10 years this roster would look dramatically different. Petterson, Boeser, Horvat, Hughes were all obtained in the last 40 picks. Not counting Demko, Joulevi and Gaudette. I think the Canucks win hands down. https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/TBL/draft.html# Just to be clear of the context, I’ve linked all these posts of ours so we understand each other. As per THN’s Draft Preview, which I can’t post of course, are their lists of late-round gems. They take all teams and compare all picks made after the second round since 2000 to play a minimum of 100 NHL games. There is is no comparison, as was my point about Tampa, which wasn’t to necessarily compare against the Canucks either, not at all actually. Tampa is 4th most productive at 4th, with 122 picks and and 20 players. Vancouver is ranked 29th with 98 picks and a merger 7 players. Considering both teams teams have gone through the boom and bust roster phases during that time period (2000-now) I’d say that, 1st rounders and high seconds are cancelled out, leaving the rest. As to your point about hitting on the 1st or 2nd OA picks, I don’t disagree. Who would? It’s not like the Canucks’ string of top 7 picks isn’t also up there in ways to diminish the drafting prowess of teams who routinely pick that high. As an aside to this, I think those two teams cancel out with such 1st round luxury and thus the significance of the importance, and the point of comparing, the results later picks. Not much to compare. 4th place to 29th. Edited June 23, 2019 by 189lb enforcers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, CaptainLinden16 said: Sakic is a tough negotiator but Subban and Risotolanien could've been had for that 1st for SURE. Considering Subban went for two 2nd's and a Lind and Gadjovich. Trust me, I wanted Subban too. I think JB got scared from his term and age. Jersey was apparently the only team willing to take on the entire contract. 9M salary a couple years from now could look very ugly if he starts crapping out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, Tystick said: Edler - Tanev Hughes - Stecher Hutton - Schenn Not the greatest but it's manageable. That said, I could see JB making a trade for another puck mover. waiver wire Schenn, broken Tanev and Stecher bless his heart for all his effort is a small defensive defenseman. There is ZERO offense coming from those 3. That is an AHL quality right side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized27 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: The goalie is irrelevant, the pick maybe a valuable player 4-5 years from now and the 3rd is 20% chance to play NHL hockey. Again no problem with any of that. Subban was available and easily obtainable. Barrie may have cost a 1st, Gaudette and Lind + whatever. Risotlanien I believe would be possible with a 1st +. Why was this not the priority? Now that the 1st is gone that is no longer really possible unless you deal someone off the core or Joulevi or Virtanen +++. Why sell low on those two? I don't like this from a team building perspective at all. How do you know Subban was available to Vancouver? Barrie's availability has been denied by Sakic and Benning's supposed inquiries have also been spitballing by pundits. How do you know the first wasn't offered to Buffalo and the return ask by Botterill was too rich for Benning? Do you not believe that the holes on defense are as obvious to Canuck management as they are to the fans? It would be my understanding that the first was shopped for Miller only AFTER Benning & co. had exhausted their trade avenues to bolster the blueline. It now becomes a waiting game to see what the cash strapped teams offer as they circle back July 1st. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tystick Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, CaptainLinden16 said: waiver wire Schenn, broken Tanev and Stecher bless his heart for all his effort is a small defensive defenseman. There is ZERO offense coming from those 3. That is an AHL quality right side. True and I would like an upgrade as well. There's still plenty of time for JB to pull off a trade or sign someone that will make the group better. My point is if worse came to worse, they wouldn't be terrible at neutralizing the backend. Definitely no offense, but that's okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: waiver wire Schenn, broken Tanev and Stecher bless his heart for all his effort is a small defensive defenseman. There is ZERO offense coming from those 3. That is an AHL quality right side. But Schenn is former first round pick, and you were just telling me how valuable first rounders are, so how could he possibly be AHL material? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Lionized27 said: How do you know Subban was available to Vancouver? Barrie's availability has been denied by Sakic and Benning's supposed inquiries have also been spitballing by pundits. How do you know the first wasn't offered to Buffalo and the return ask by Botterill was too rich for Benning? Do you not believe that the holes on defense are as obvious to Canuck management as they are to the fans? It would be my understanding that the first was shopped for Miller only AFTER Benning & co. had exhausted their trade avenues to bolster the blueline. It now becomes a waiting game to see what the cash strapped teams offer as they circle back July 1st. Benning even mentioned Miller’s age and being signed at a good cap number for four more years was important. I don’t think JB was in on PK - too high a cap hit, and too old. I don’t think Barrie is a target either - UFA 2020. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, 189lb enforcers? said: Just to be clear of the context, I’ve linked all these posts of ours so we understand each other. As per THN’s Draft Preview, which I can’t post of course, are their lists of late-round gems. They take all teams and compare all picks made after the second round since 2000 to play a minimum of 100 NHL games. There is is no comparison, as was my point about Tampa, which wasn’t to necessarily compare against the Canucks either, not at all actually. Tampa is 4th most productive at 4th, with 122 picks and and 20 players. Vancouver is ranked 29th with 98 picks and a merger 7 players. Considering both teams teams have gone through the boom and bust roster phases during that time period (2000-now) I’d say that, as I originally stated, Tampa is excellent at drafting and should do well with the picks received in trade, statistically speaking of course. As to your point about hitting on the 1st or 2nd OA picks, I don’t disagree. Who would? It’s not like the Canucks’ string of top 7 picks isn’t also up there in ways to diminish the drafting prowess of teams who routinely pick that high. As an aside to this, I think those two teams cancel out with such 1st round luxury and thus the significance of the importance, and the point of comparing, the results later picks. Not much to compare. 4th place to 29th. You frame everything in an anit-Benning lens. My point is that the Canucks draft record since he has been the GM is easily better than TB or any other team for that matter He is hitting on his picks. Canucks draft pre-Benning was an absolute disaster and meaningless to compare. The draft is primarily a luck based endeavor. A couple of pages back someone posted the parabolic draft performance of 1st overall to 7th round. There is no skill in drafting 1st overall. The Canucks drafted 2nd and 3rd overall once and hit on two Hall of Famers. The lack of top 3 picks is the reason this team is as bad as it is. The reason why Tampa is as good as they are is because of Stamkos and Hedman. Point and Kucherov are amazing players in their own right, but Petterson and Horvat are not terrible either. If the Canucks had Hedman and Stamkos on this roster they would easily be a top 5 team in the league. The best players are whats most important as a poster responding to me so eloquently put it. You don't get much better than those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: The goalie is irrelevant, the pick maybe a valuable player 4-5 years from now and the 3rd is 20% chance to play NHL hockey. Again no problem with any of that. Subban was available and easily obtainable. Barrie may have cost a 1st, Gaudette and Lind + whatever. Risotlanien I believe would be possible with a 1st +. Why was this not the priority? Now that the 1st is gone that is no longer really possible unless you deal someone off the core or Joulevi or Virtanen +++. Why sell low on those two? I don't like this from a team building perspective at all. What if Buffalo's price was the same 1st, Woo and Virtanen. Still upset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, gurn said: He is actually Tyler Myers' cousin who came with Tyler to check out Vancouver. or I just typed too fast. Yea i figured it was his cousin lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, Lionized27 said: How do you know Subban was available to Vancouver? Barrie's availability has been denied by Sakic and Benning's supposed inquiries have also been spitballing by pundits. How do you know the first wasn't offered to Buffalo and the return ask by Botterill was too rich for Benning? Do you not believe that the holes on defense are as obvious to Canuck management as they are to the fans? It would be my understanding that the first was shopped for Miller only AFTER Benning & co. had exhausted their trade avenues to bolster the blueline. It now becomes a waiting game to see what the cash strapped teams offer as they circle back July 1st. Barrie is still out there and so is Ristolanien. Maybe even Pesce or another RHD could have been obtained for that pick. Nashville was clearly trying to trade Subban. If the Canucks offered a 1st round pick over two 2nds, the Predators would have 100% taken that deal. Why wouldn't they trade him to Vancouver? Of course he was available to Vancouver. There is nothing about what NJ offered that made it impossible for Vancouver to match or exceed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLinden16 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Just now, grandmaster said: Trust me, I wanted Subban too. I think JB got scared from his term and age. Jersey was apparently the only team willing to take on the entire contract. 9M salary a couple years from now could look very ugly if he starts crapping out. its just 3 years. If he sucks then so be it. If he plays well then thats a HUGE hole plugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said: Why wouldn't they trade him to Vancouver? Of course he was available to Vancouver. Nashville and Vancouver may end up competing for a "crossover" play off spot while NJ won't? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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