[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[Nucker 67]

Wasn't a fan of this trade at first, don't like losing the 3rd and 1st, but in return the Canucks are getting a top 6 forward with 4 years left at $5.25. That's a great deal for a 26-year old top 6 forward. The Canucks might draft anywhere between #20 and #30 in a couple of years, and that player might make the big leagues one day, maybe. Meanwhile, Miller will be scoring 30 goals a year with Pettersson. Time to shore up the D and get this party started.    

[Maketherightmove]

1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

Wasn't a fan of this trade at first, don't like losing the 3rd and 1st, but in return the Canucks are getting a top 6 forward with 4 years left at $5.25. That's a great deal for a 26-year old top 6 forward. The Canucks might draft anywhere between #20 and #30 in a couple of years, and that player might make the big leagues one day, maybe. Meanwhile, Miller will be scoring 30 goals a year with Pettersson. Time to shore up the D and get this party started.    

Damn, from the bottom to Cup finalists in 2 years time! 

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

We will likely have to give up some value. But even without LE. After our young guns get locked up. Assuming they don’t take discounts, We’d be looking at 40+ locked up by 6 players with Bo being the only real value contract.

a.k.a. "First World problems"  Will be nice to get back to those again. 

 

By that time we'll be looking at a $90million+ cap anyway.  Them suppressing it right now works very much to our benefit.

[coastal.view]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Nope, for the 3rd time now...

 

 

 

and no where did i say that was a fix

i simply asked someone else for commentary on why no dmen were picked in this draft

you chose to respond and assumed something else

it is very unproductive chatting with you about the team defence issues

 

 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

and no where did i say that was a fix

i simply asked someone else for commentary on why no dmen were picked in this draft

you chose to respond and assumed something else

it is very unproductive chatting with you about the team defence issues

 

 

Here's your 'production' right here:

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Since Benning took over:

 

2014 - 3 of 7 picks were D

 

2015 - 3 of 7

 

2016 - 2 of 6

 

2017 - 3 of 8

 

2018 - 3 of 6

 

This last year we also added 3 college FA D's.

 

This 'Canucks are anti-D' agenda is a load of manure.

 

NVM that the present issue of fixing the current, NHL level D was in no way, shape or form going to be from D taken in rounds 4-7 in the 2019 draft. The premise is beyond laughable.

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

At 154 pages, this must be closing in on the Shinkaruk/Granlund trade thread.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

46 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Wasn't a fan of this trade at first, don't like losing the 3rd and 1st, but in return the Canucks are getting a top 6 forward with 4 years left at $5.25. That's a great deal for a 26-year old top 6 forward. The Canucks might draft anywhere between #20 and #30 in a couple of years, and that player might make the big leagues one day, maybe. Meanwhile, Miller will be scoring 30 goals a year with Pettersson. Time to shore up the D and get this party started.    

What makes is a monumental mistake;

VANCOUVER -- Alexis Lafreniere of Rimouski in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League will headline a strong class of prospects expected to be available in the 2020 NHL Draft at Bell Centre in Montreal on June 26-27, 2020.

The left wing (6-foot-1, 186 pounds) was awarded the Michel Briere Trophy as the QMJHL's most valuable player after scoring 105 points (37 goals, 68 assists) in 61 regular-season games and 23 points (nine goals, 14 assists) in 13 playoff games this season.

"He's special for sure; a gifted offensive guy who thinks the game very well and is strong on his skates," Troy Dumville of NHL Central Scouting said. "He's only going to get better as next year comes around."

 

[RELATED: Complete NHL Draft coverage]

 

Lafreniere has 185 points (79 goals, 106 assists) in 121 career QMJHL games, averaging 1.53 points per game.

"He reminds me of Gilbert Perreault," Hockey Hall of Famer Wayne Gretzky told Sportsnet. "He can skate, handle the puck. He's just around the puck so much. When you have that much puck sense, that much speed, I can see him being a center at the next level."

Lafreniere isn't the only player expected to attract attention in the QMJHL next season. Center Hendrix Lapierre (6-0, 165) of Chicoutimi, right wing Dawson Mercer (6-0, 170) of Drummondville and defenseman Justin Barron (6-2, 192) of Halifax are three blue-chip players projected to go in the first round.

Lapierre was second on the Sagueneens with 45 points (13 goals, 32 assists) and first with 16 power-play assists. Mercer had 64 points (30 goals, 34 assists) in 68 games for the Voltigeurs, and Barron had 41 points (nine goals, 32 assists) in 68 games for Halifax, which finished second in the Memorial Cup.

"The 2020 Draft class is looking like a well-rounded class in that there is a more even spread of talent throughout the leagues than what we've seen the past couple seasons," director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr said. "While there is top talent in every draft class, the past couple years have been lean years in certain leagues and in 2020 the initial view is that there is more depth to the Draft and it's spread all throughout North America."

The USA Hockey National Team Development Program Under-18 team may not have as many first-round picks (eight) as it produced this year, but defensemen Jake Sanderson (6-2, 170), Brock Faber (6-0, 188) and Tyler Kleven (6-4, 190) and forwards Ty Smilanic (6-1, 167) and Dylan Peterson (6-4, 185) are potential high selections. 

 

Sanderson, the son of former NHL forward Geoff Sanderson, is a mobile, puck-moving defenseman with elite skating ability and work ethic. Faber, according to 2019-20 U-18 coach Seth Appert, is strong on his skates and hard to play against. Kleven is a throwback type, capable of a few game-changing hits since he is a physically imposing player, good athlete and competitor.

Smilanic, who had 38 points (20 goals, 18 assists) and eight power-play goals in 54 games for the U-17's, is an elite skater. Peterson, who had 29 points (eight goals, 21 assists) in 53 games last season, is a highly-skilled, point-producing power-forward down around the net.

The Ontario Hockey League players to watch are centers Marco Rossi (5-9, 179), who scored 65 points (29 goals, 36 assists) in 53 games for Ottawa, Quinton Byfield (6-4, 214), who had 61 points (29 goals, 32 assists) in 64 games for Sudbury, and Cole Perfetti (5-10, 185), who finished tied with Florida Panthers forward prospect Owen Tippett for the club scoring lead with 74 points (37 goals, 37 assists) in 63 games. 

Erie defenseman Jamie Drysdale (5-11, 165), who had 40 points (seven goals, 33 assists) in 63 games, could be a top-10 choice.

The Western Hockey League might not have as many prospects at the top of the draft as it did this year, but defensemen Braden Schneider (6-2, 209) of Brandon and Kaiden Guhle (6-3, 187) of Prince Albert are players to watch. Schneider had 24 points (eight goals, 16 assists) and 106 shots on goal in 58 games and Guhle had 17 points (three goals, 14 assists) and 74 shots in 65 games.

There's a strong group of International prospects, including potential top-2 choice Lucas Raymond of Frolunda in the Swedish Hockey League. The right wing (5-10, 165 pounds) had 48 points (13 goals, 35 assists) in 37 games for Frolunda's Under-20 junior team last season before playing 10 games and scoring two goals with the men's team. He had eight points (four goals, four assists) in seven games to help Sweden to its first gold medal at the 2019 IIHF World Under-18 Championship; he scored a hat trick in a 4-3 overtime win against Russia in the championship game.

"Raymond is a highly competitive player with speed and skills," said Goran Stubb, NHL director of European Scouting. "He's always going hard for the puck, makes plays and is a force whenever he's on the ice. He's smart with great offensive instincts and a good understanding of his defensive responsibilities. He's going to be a top-three European prospect for the 2020 Draft."

Right wing Alexander Holtz (6-0, 183) of Djurgarden (SHL), center Anton Lundell (6-1, 183) of HIFK in Liiga, Finland's top professional men's league, and goalie Yaroslav Askarov of SKA-1946 St. Petersburg in Russia's minor league are also considered blue chip prospects. Askarov (6-3, 163) had a 2.31 goals-against average and .916 save percentage in six games to help Russia to a second-place finish at the IIHF World U-18 Championship in April.

 

 

Should have been trading FOR 1rst round picks

Edited June 25, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Losing With Pride]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

The Leafs should be trying to make a trade as opposed to being forced into offer-sheet dynamics - of matching or picks.

 

Other teams smell blood in the water - and it it's only enhanced by Dubas' mishandling of the drawn out Nylander situation, and the snowball effect of caving at the last hour like he did.

 

They've shown a tendency to spend like school kids who just got their allowance - but then not having the wisdom to be proactive when they are approaching difficult situations.

  

They need to make a trade - like yesterday.  Like last year.  LIke every deadline.

They've needed to make additions to their blueline for years - but instead they did things like rent Brian Boyle or Plekanec - and the irony - the year they actually needed to add a depth center at the deadline (last year, when Bozak was gone) they traded Par Lindholm at the deadline.  Tavares and Marner wound up -9 in the playoffs because they became the Leafs inadequate shutdown line.

They get itchy/hasty whenever they have cap to spend - and they idle like a deer in the headlights when they need to be proactive.

 

Just get out ahead of it for once and make a gd proactive trade.

Hey Chayka - what will you give us for Matthews.

At least when you're talking to Chayka you're talking to a GM that doesn't necessarily exercise his leverage (ie the Datsyuk dump he took for nothing, letting Holland off the hook).

One kid genius to another, help us out here Chayka.

Take the offer sheet if its' 4 first round picks.

 

Shop the 1st round picks to add WAY more depth.

 

[Talon71]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Miller is ethically intense..   that type of game can become infectious in a room and on the ice.

This is a bold move by Benning..  the right one for an injection of character above everything else this player brings.

Agreed.   With luck he'll be a good influence on Virtanen 

[oldnews]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if the Leafs will trade Zaitsev, and retain 2 million of his salary?  Then he's paid more like a bottom pair guy.  How about Hutton for Zaitsev (2 million retained)?  Then the Leafs don't have to qualify Hutton,and save almost 3 million to pay another forward.  

Taking Zaitsev's 5 x 4.5 cap dump will to cost an asset imo (at least there's no other way I would)  - I wouldn't be hockey trading him for even Hutton's rights to July 1st.....I'd want compensation from the Leafs.

1 yr of Marleau, for example, cost them a 1st.

20+ million of Zaitsev.....

Edited June 25, 2019 by oldnews

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Get Arizona to throw in a first rounder, if anything can save hockey in that arena it's hometown kid Mathews.

exactly. leverage the fact that no one cares in Arizona - building a good roster would probably be less effective than simply bringing a 'star' home.

[Camel Toe Drag]

15 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

What makes is a monumental mistake;

VANCOUVER -- Alexis Lafreniere of Rimouski in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League will headline a strong class of prospects expected to be available in the 2020 NHL Draft at Bell Centre in Montreal on June 26-27, 2020.

The left wing (6-foot-1, 186 pounds) was awarded the Michel Briere Trophy as the QMJHL's most valuable player after scoring 105 points (37 goals, 68 assists) in 61 regular-season games and 23 points (nine goals, 14 assists) in 13 playoff games this season.

"He's special for sure; a gifted offensive guy who thinks the game very well and is strong on his skates," Troy Dumville of NHL Central Scouting said. "He's only going to get better as next year comes around."

 

[RELATED: Complete NHL Draft coverage]

 

Lafreniere has 185 points (79 goals, 106 assists) in 121 career QMJHL games, averaging 1.53 points per game.

"He reminds me of Gilbert Perreault," Hockey Hall of Famer Wayne Gretzky told Sportsnet. "He can skate, handle the puck. He's just around the puck so much. When you have that much puck sense, that much speed, I can see him being a center at the next level."

Lafreniere isn't the only player expected to attract attention in the QMJHL next season. Center Hendrix Lapierre (6-0, 165) of Chicoutimi, right wing Dawson Mercer (6-0, 170) of Drummondville and defenseman Justin Barron (6-2, 192) of Halifax are three blue-chip players projected to go in the first round.

Lapierre was second on the Sagueneens with 45 points (13 goals, 32 assists) and first with 16 power-play assists. Mercer had 64 points (30 goals, 34 assists) in 68 games for the Voltigeurs, and Barron had 41 points (nine goals, 32 assists) in 68 games for Halifax, which finished second in the Memorial Cup.

"The 2020 Draft class is looking like a well-rounded class in that there is a more even spread of talent throughout the leagues than what we've seen the past couple seasons," director of NHL Central Scouting Dan Marr said. "While there is top talent in every draft class, the past couple years have been lean years in certain leagues and in 2020 the initial view is that there is more depth to the Draft and it's spread all throughout North America."

The USA Hockey National Team Development Program Under-18 team may not have as many first-round picks (eight) as it produced this year, but defensemen Jake Sanderson (6-2, 170), Brock Faber (6-0, 188) and Tyler Kleven (6-4, 190) and forwards Ty Smilanic (6-1, 167) and Dylan Peterson (6-4, 185) are potential high selections. 

 

Sanderson, the son of former NHL forward Geoff Sanderson, is a mobile, puck-moving defenseman with elite skating ability and work ethic. Faber, according to 2019-20 U-18 coach Seth Appert, is strong on his skates and hard to play against. Kleven is a throwback type, capable of a few game-changing hits since he is a physically imposing player, good athlete and competitor.

Smilanic, who had 38 points (20 goals, 18 assists) and eight power-play goals in 54 games for the U-17's, is an elite skater. Peterson, who had 29 points (eight goals, 21 assists) in 53 games last season, is a highly-skilled, point-producing power-forward down around the net.

The Ontario Hockey League players to watch are centers Marco Rossi (5-9, 179), who scored 65 points (29 goals, 36 assists) in 53 games for Ottawa, Quinton Byfield (6-4, 214), who had 61 points (29 goals, 32 assists) in 64 games for Sudbury, and Cole Perfetti (5-10, 185), who finished tied with Florida Panthers forward prospect Owen Tippett for the club scoring lead with 74 points (37 goals, 37 assists) in 63 games. 

Erie defenseman Jamie Drysdale (5-11, 165), who had 40 points (seven goals, 33 assists) in 63 games, could be a top-10 choice.

The Western Hockey League might not have as many prospects at the top of the draft as it did this year, but defensemen Braden Schneider (6-2, 209) of Brandon and Kaiden Guhle (6-3, 187) of Prince Albert are players to watch. Schneider had 24 points (eight goals, 16 assists) and 106 shots on goal in 58 games and Guhle had 17 points (three goals, 14 assists) and 74 shots in 65 games.

There's a strong group of International prospects, including potential top-2 choice Lucas Raymond of Frolunda in the Swedish Hockey League. The right wing (5-10, 165 pounds) had 48 points (13 goals, 35 assists) in 37 games for Frolunda's Under-20 junior team last season before playing 10 games and scoring two goals with the men's team. He had eight points (four goals, four assists) in seven games to help Sweden to its first gold medal at the 2019 IIHF World Under-18 Championship; he scored a hat trick in a 4-3 overtime win against Russia in the championship game.

"Raymond is a highly competitive player with speed and skills," said Goran Stubb, NHL director of European Scouting. "He's always going hard for the puck, makes plays and is a force whenever he's on the ice. He's smart with great offensive instincts and a good understanding of his defensive responsibilities. He's going to be a top-three European prospect for the 2020 Draft."

Right wing Alexander Holtz (6-0, 183) of Djurgarden (SHL), center Anton Lundell (6-1, 183) of HIFK in Liiga, Finland's top professional men's league, and goalie Yaroslav Askarov of SKA-1946 St. Petersburg in Russia's minor league are also considered blue chip prospects. Askarov (6-3, 163) had a 2.31 goals-against average and .916 save percentage in six games to help Russia to a second-place finish at the IIHF World U-18 Championship in April.

 

 

Should have been trading FOR 1rst round picks

If we don’t make the playoffs we keep our 2020 1st round pick. 

 

There will always be a draft next year, there will always be good players coming up. 

 

Its time to switch gears and start completing. 

[Chicken.]

Just now, Camel Toe Drag said:

If we don’t make the playoffs we keep our 2020 1st round pick. 

 

There will always be a draft next year, there will always be good players coming up. 

 

Its time to switch gears and start completing. 

Took the words out of my mouth lol

 

we can still draft that kid next year. If we suck in 2021 then things will look bleak 

[Maketherightmove]

3 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Miller is ethically intense..   that type of game can become infectious in a room and on the ice.

This is a bold move by Benning..  the right one for an injection of character above everything else this player brings.

But would he steal a loaf of bread to feed his family?

[oldnews]

12 minutes ago, Losing With Pride said:

Take the offer sheet if its' 4 first round picks.

 

Shop the 1st round picks to add WAY more depth.

 

I don't think you're going to add "way more depth" than by moving Matthews - adding a high end young center like Keller, a D like Chychrun and a pick, which they could use to add a 3rd piece.  You may get slightly more volume, but a principal like Keller, on an ELC, producing 47 pts at age 20... I think they'd do well to use the leverage they have with a direct trade of an asset like that, as opposed to leveraging (likely late) Colorado 1st round picks of the future.

 

[Sean Monahan]

1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

Literally the only people I have seen that are okay with this trade are the typical CDC homers who ALWAYS defend every move that is made.

 

Pierre Lebrun thought it was too much

Ray Ferraro thought it was too much

Every radio personality I've listened to thinks it was too much

Fans of other teams think it was too much

Most Canuck fans overall I'm guessing think it's too much

 

People okay with it: aGent, fakenews(oldnews), Hutton's Wink, Robb Zepp etc etc. The usuals

 

Even if it was a fair trade, it still doesn't exclude the fact that it might not have been the right trade, so we're questioning two different trains of thought here.

 

 

 

 

Elliot Friedman and Chris Johnston thought it was a fair deal. A gamble, but a calculated (and not outrageous) risk. 

[MattJVD]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

and no where did i say that was a fix

i simply asked someone else for commentary on why no dmen were picked in this draft

you chose to respond and assumed something else

it is very unproductive chatting with you about the team defence issues

 

 

Jim said - we didn't avoid picking dmen by design, there were a few defencemen they really liked in the draft. But at their selection time they took the player they had rated the highest. To the team staff, it wasn't worth passing up the player that they selected to take the next best defenceman.

[Brovat]

28 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Literally the only people I have seen that are okay with this trade are the typical CDC homers who ALWAYS defend every move that is made.

 

Pierre Lebrun thought it was too much

Ray Ferraro thought it was too much

Every radio personality I've listened to thinks it was too much

Fans of other teams think it was too much

Most Canuck fans overall I'm guessing think it's too much

 

Hell, even the Canucks weren't okay with it.. "JT Miller for Marek Mazanek, a 3rd and a conditional pick"

 

People okay with it: aGent, fakenews(oldnews), Hutton's Wink, Robb Zepp etc etc. The usuals

 

Even if it was a fair trade, it still doesn't exclude the fact that it might not have been the right trade, so we're questioning two different trains of thought here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually love this trade. Marek was TB doing the Canucks a favor. The only thing I wish they kept was the 3rd. I’m totally fine with the first rounder that probably won’t be a lotto pick. Would of been nice to have a 3rd year added to the stipulation but then it’s just getting weird. 

 

Miller is a good player. It’s like getting Horvat as a winger. He isn’t LE. He’s a lot more dynamic. He’s a gamer with a good attitude. 

 

Things have to play out. I don’t have a crystal ball. I think it was a bold move but a good one. 

[Frozen Water Walker]

https://www.nhl.com/news/fantasy-hockey-top-100-forward-rankings-2019-20/c-282775028?tid=277729150

 

Interesting article  the Miller trade has bumped all the young guns up in fantasy ranking, they are fantasy but (4) in the top 100 I can't remember the last time I saw that from the Canucks forwards

 

Elias Pettersson, Brock Boeser and Bo Horvat, VAN -- The Vancouver Canucks acquired versatile forward J.T. Miller from the Tampa Bay Lightning and are likely to slot him into a top-six role with either Pettersson or Bo Horvat. Vancouver's forward group is also equipped with right wing Brock Boeser and will have a valuable defenseman in either rookie Quinn Hughes or veteran Alexander Edler, who re-signed with Vancouver on June 20, on the first power play. Miller, who had inconsistent even-strength usage this season with the Lightning but played on the first power play (20 power-play points), is the favorite to be the fourth forward on the top unit in Vancouver and has cracked the top 100 forward list with sleeper potential. This edition of the rankings also brings upward movement for Pettersson, Boeser and Horvat.

[SergioMomesso]

If JT pumps in 20 goals a season for at least 2 of his 4 years remaining on his current deal, I think the deal works for both teams. JB is obviously banking on making the playoffs the year after next and only giving up a pick in the 16-20 range. I think this is a better move than paying 7-8 million to a UFA or try to build off a draft that might not pan out for 4 years down the road. By that time we may have missed the playoffs for a decade with a pissed off Bo, Brock and Petey. And you can be sure they will want out before they end up playing over half their career without a sniff at the cup. I like our GM trying to get better rather than stand pat and collect picks and prospects that may or may not pan out. Let’s get on board and see what happens before we write off Miller and the guy who traded for him.