HorvatToBaertschi Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) On 7/20/2019 at 1:17 AM, The 5th Line said: Thomas Chabot 18th OA in 15' This team isn't in position to be giving up first round picks. Everyone is in a rush to just make the playoffs, like that's our Stanley cup. The low expectations are live and well. I like JT, I like that our team is better but I don't like the lack of young assets this team has in the pipeline nor do I like all the money we have tied up in overpayed free agents. This team still needs to add to the young core, not take away from it. I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Canucks have been top 5 (top 3 most times) in the last few years in prospect pool rankings. We have one of the most deep pools with talent in every single position, and a lot of high end talent in Juolevi, Hughes, Demko, Woo, Podkolzin, Hoglander, DiPietro, Tryamkin, to name a few. At this point in the rebuild, seeing as we already have elite-potential players in every position already on the big club (Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Demko and Hughes), trading non-roster pieces for CORE players like Miller, at a decent cap hit with term, makes complete sense. Who's to say that 1st also won't be recovered at some point, if the right move comes up? We haven't made the playoffs in 4 years. It's time we grow up and start playing with the big boys again. Edited July 29, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 8 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Canucks have been top 5 (top 3 most times) in the last few years in prospect pool rankings. We have one of the most deep pools with talent in every single position, and a lot of high end talent in Juolevi, Hughes, Demko, Woo, Podkolzin, Hoglander, DiPietro, Tryamkin, to name a few. At this point in the rebuild, seeing as we already have elite-potential players in every position already on the big club (Boeser, Horvat, Pettersson, Demko and Hughes), trading non-roster pieces for CORE players like Miller, at a decent cap hit with term, makes complete sense. Who's to say that 1st also won't be recovered at some point, if the right move comes up? We haven't made the playoffs in 4 years. It's time we grow up and start playing with the big boys again. Exactly. I'm not sure what he's thinking when he says he doesn't like our prospect pool. Our prospect pool is one of the best in the league lol. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Two keys for me on this trade: 1) The team is better off not wasting any prime years of EP40 - the fact that Petey is on his ELC for two more years makes adding a player like Miller worth it (in addition to other adds). Why not extend EP40's window to win? 2) An often forgotten element of the trade is that Miller can play center so, all of a sudden the team is much more prepared for when the inevitable injuries strike: Petey Bo Miller Sutter Gaudette Beagle 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, HKSR said: Exactly. I'm not sure what he's thinking when he says he doesn't like our prospect pool. Our prospect pool is one of the best in the league lol. They don't understand our absolute top picks have already cracked the team, this taking a hit to the pool itself. They look at Utica and say where's the youth and ignore what we have in the rest of the system and therefore our prospect pool must not be up to par. We basically can be pumping in about a couple of players a year from our prospect group at the NHL level for at least the next 3-4 years and even more that could be getting into the AHL as our depth plugs up spots at the NHL level. A lot of the teams that have decent AHL teams have been bad for many years prior, so considering that we haven't been that bad comparatively and the fact that our prospect group was basically nothing when Benning came in, it's amazing how far this area has progressed in such a short time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, 5nothincanucksohno said: Two keys for me on this trade: 1) The team is better off not wasting any prime years of EP40 - the fact that Petey is on his ELC for two more years makes adding a player like Miller worth it (in addition to other adds). Why not extend EP40's window to win? 2) An often forgotten element of the trade is that Miller can play center so, all of a sudden the team is much more prepared for when the inevitable injuries strike: Petey Bo Miller Sutter Gaudette Beagle Point #1 is all you need to say. Petey was noticeably confused and disappointed when playing after being eliminated from playoff contention. He was the playoff golden god in Sweden, the guy has Conn Smythe aspirations here! Everybody bemoans Edmonton's inability to build a roster to complement McDavid, and we are actively avoiding that. He is our McDavid and he is hungry to make playoff history. Get him in the show. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solinar Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I think this year proves that with the parity in the league, and a little luck, you can make some noise if you make the playoffs and certain players get hot at the right time. We were 5 wins off of getting into the show ourselves, and in the arms race, we are definitely better on paper than the team that was limping along with 2 serious losing streaks, and a lot of close games we lost. Benning was laughed at when he said he wanted to add a top 6 winger and a top 4 defenseman, but he stuck to his guns and went out and got what he believes are what we were missing from last season. Arguably, he got 2 top 6 players, in Miller and Ferland, and gave up scratch tickets to get there, or just cash. Myers and Benn arguably improve our d-core, as well as the addition of Hughes. So our d-core, that couldn't get it done, was revamped by half of its staff. With the key additions better in the offense and transition categories, and the ones remaining arguably better in the defensive side of the game. 1/3 of our top 6 forwards were revamped. That pushed down skill and talent into the bottom 6, arguably improving them as well. We added size, grit, and most importantly, offense. It cost us an uncertainly placed 1rst round pick somewhere in the next couple of years, and a third. Oh, and cap space. Now comes the point where he has to lose one of Eriksson, Tanev, or Sutter. We all know what we want, but it is that trade and the returns that'll be worth watching. Either way, we are at a point where we have gone out and gotten players that will help our developing players be better. The team has stacked the deck, and done better, on paper. Are you not excited? Most importantly, the excuses will be gone. You can't point to the roster and say, oh, its terrible. It may not be great, but if the coach is good, and the team comes together, we will have an entertaining season, and hopefully an exciting post-season, even if it is one and done. That'll make the team hungry for more. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 If you have one or two of Baertschi, Pearson, Virtanen, etc on your 3rd line, you are going the right direction and have a greater ability to get that secondary scoring needed to be consistently successful. Worst case full roster scenario of: Miller-EP-Boeser Ferland-Horvat-Pearson Baertschi-Sutter-Virtanen Combination of Beagle, Roussel, Leivo, Motte, Eriksson, Goldobin Solid options to mix and match as injuries come up without a significant drop in skill on all four lines. Edler-Myers Hughes-Tanev Benn-Stecher Biega, Fantenberg Decent balance of puck moving, offensive skill, and defensive responsibility on each pair. Benn and Stecher can move up into the top 4 if injuries come and still a solid 3rd pair of Biega and Fantenberg can still be trusted. This also does not factor in any young guys overachieving and earning a spot. We are in good shape imo. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solinar Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 We have a solid mix of veteran to developing player ratio, we have a good balance in physicality and skill, we added some definite....truculence...that fans always love. We have a lot of ifs and question marks going into the season, but we are poised to be on the winning side of a lot of contests if the ifs and ?'s are in our favour. Does our mix allow for a better allotment of ice time per player, allowing for less injuries as certain players are over extended? Will certain of our players be able to thrive in their roles without having to take on added responsibilities because of roster composition? Having a dynamic skating and skilled prospect on the back end, as well as another pp quarterback in Myers should allow us to not ride Edler into the ground. Better mix of players will allow us to judiciously use Tanev without putting him into a minutes crunch that inevitably gets him injured. Up front, Miller is an entry machine, statistically. Last year, it was painful watching anyone not Horvat, Pettersson, or Virtanen enter the zone. Dump and chase is great, but the we didn't have the right mix of players to make use of it, as in my opinion, unless you're using it like St. Louis, aka, dumping it and smashing the defense and recovering it quickly, you are basically scrambling on a one and done play. Ferland also is a good possession entry forward. So now we have more options for entering the zone. Canucks fans, I think we have something here, and quite possibly, it may be time to shuffle that 'tank nation' t-shirt into the back of the closet and cautiously be prepared to cheer. I know this isn't the team many wanted, with 4 years of #1 picks on board, but we can all admit that the NHL is pretty good at screwing our team over. Maybe now we'll succeed despite the lack of lotto ball success, and really, that is something. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McClane Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Solinar said: We have a solid mix of veteran to developing player ratio, we have a good balance in physicality and skill, we added some definite....truculence...that fans always love. We have a lot of ifs and question marks going into the season, but we are poised to be on the winning side of a lot of contests if the ifs and ?'s are in our favour. Does our mix allow for a better allotment of ice time per player, allowing for less injuries as certain players are over extended? Will certain of our players be able to thrive in their roles without having to take on added responsibilities because of roster composition? Having a dynamic skating and skilled prospect on the back end, as well as another pp quarterback in Myers should allow us to not ride Edler into the ground. Better mix of players will allow us to judiciously use Tanev without putting him into a minutes crunch that inevitably gets him injured. Up front, Miller is an entry machine, statistically. Last year, it was painful watching anyone not Horvat, Pettersson, or Virtanen enter the zone. Dump and chase is great, but the we didn't have the right mix of players to make use of it, as in my opinion, unless you're using it like St. Louis, aka, dumping it and smashing the defense and recovering it quickly, you are basically scrambling on a one and done play. Ferland also is a good possession entry forward. So now we have more options for entering the zone. Canucks fans, I think we have something here, and quite possibly, it may be time to shuffle that 'tank nation' t-shirt into the back of the closet and cautiously be prepared to cheer. I know this isn't the team many wanted, with 4 years of #1 picks on board, but we can all admit that the NHL is pretty good at screwing our team over. Maybe now we'll succeed despite the lack of lotto ball success, and really, that is something. I’m on board with the optimistic approach to the next season.... But maybe instead of discarding the tank completely, we can just shrink it for now..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC2 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Solinar said: We have a solid mix of veteran to developing player ratio, we have a good balance in physicality and skill, we added some definite....truculence...that fans always love. We have a lot of ifs and question marks going into the season, but we are poised to be on the winning side of a lot of contests if the ifs and ?'s are in our favour. Does our mix allow for a better allotment of ice time per player, allowing for less injuries as certain players are over extended? Will certain of our players be able to thrive in their roles without having to take on added responsibilities because of roster composition? Having a dynamic skating and skilled prospect on the back end, as well as another pp quarterback in Myers should allow us to not ride Edler into the ground. Better mix of players will allow us to judiciously use Tanev without putting him into a minutes crunch that inevitably gets him injured. Up front, Miller is an entry machine, statistically. Last year, it was painful watching anyone not Horvat, Pettersson, or Virtanen enter the zone. Dump and chase is great, but the we didn't have the right mix of players to make use of it, as in my opinion, unless you're using it like St. Louis, aka, dumping it and smashing the defense and recovering it quickly, you are basically scrambling on a one and done play. Ferland also is a good possession entry forward. So now we have more options for entering the zone. Canucks fans, I think we have something here, and quite possibly, it may be time to shuffle that 'tank nation' t-shirt into the back of the closet and cautiously be prepared to cheer. I know this isn't the team many wanted, with 4 years of #1 picks on board, but we can all admit that the NHL is pretty good at screwing our team over. Maybe now we'll succeed despite the lack of lotto ball success, and really, that is something. The long-term health of the team is the biggest question mark this year just like has been every year. It seems the Canucks manage to stay competitive up until Christmas and then it all falls apart, largely due to injuries and not having the depth to overcome them. On paper we have better depth than last year but that extra depth is already on the roster so what about the farm team depth? Hopefully some of our prospects in Utica manage to take a big step forward in their development this year and are capable producing when called up or else the results will likely be the same as always. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solinar Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, JC2 said: The long-term health of the team is the biggest question mark this year just like has been every year. It seems the Canucks manage to stay competitive up until Christmas and then it all falls apart, largely due to injuries and not having the depth to overcome them. On paper we have better depth than last year but that extra depth is already on the roster so what about the farm team depth? Hopefully some of our prospects in Utica manage to take a big step forward in their development this year and are capable producing when called up or else the results will likely be the same as always. I quite agree! We've been in the playoff chase till around christmas, or just shortly after, and then we get hit with the amount of injuries most teams wouldn't be able to withstand. But when we look at the injuries, we have to understand the mechanism of why we are getting injured. I personally believe, it is because we are asking too much of our players, as the system being put in place over taxes the lack of talent on the roster. Simply put, we are asking our key players to play in a way that puts them in the circumstance to be injured. With the sudden influx of talent, and hopefully, with some good support from the farm club, we can not only remedy that, but in the case where we do have injuries, we can sustain the main club thru the adversity. The good news is that our team plays a competitive form of hockey, that when everyone is on board, we are a team that can compete for the playoffs, and that we hit a wall. It would be different if we were at the bottom, and weren't injured. Speaks to the point that we are actually better than the standings show, we just need a little bit of luck. Being able to call up Juolevi, Chatfield, and Brisebois on the backend, should help, and if Lind, Gadjovich, and others show a marked improvement, we should be able to get thru injuries. I do have some reservations about our player development model, but it seems that there seems to be a will to find out what that is, and to fix it. It is encouraging, as I see the biggest weakness in moving forward is our teams inability to develop from within anything that would gain traction in the top 6, forward wise, as well as top 4 on the defensive side of things. It speaks well that we can produce goaltending, as that is an up and down thing for most clubs, who seem to be able to deal with that by just UFA'ing it, but we'd all rather not count on that. The next 2 years are going to be important, not only in the case of where that pick for Miller falls out, but where our playoff aspirations go. I'd love to see Podkolzin come in for season after nexts playoff run tho, as I'm sure most of us would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post oldnews Posted October 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 even strength pts, +2 through 3 games. 39.2% ozone starts, 73.5% corsi 20 faceoff wins, 7 losses = 74.1% Not a bad start here. Wouldn't be CDC if someone didn't bump this after last night lol. 2 4 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Miller>20-25th pick all kidding aside I’m super happy this trade isint looking to be a hiccup in our rebuild well done Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I just came here to re activate this thread. LegionOfDoom beat me to it. I was going to quote some of the panic posts at the beginning of the thread saying trading a 1st for a 1st line winger was too much lol. But decided against it. It was a good trade at the time and JT Miller looked awesome last night. Hope it continues. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said: Miller>20-25th pick all kidding aside I’m super happy this trade isint looking to be a hiccup in our rebuild well done Jim Fans sometimes over-react (myself included). I could see why people might have over-reacted to this. Miller was a risk, at least for me, cause I didn't know too much about the guy. But he had a four point night yesterday. That's crazy. I know that's not going to be the norm moving forward, but if he can get 60-65 points this season, that'd be insane. Seems to be a fit playing with Pettersson and Boeser it seems? I didn't get to see all of the game yesterday, only bits and pieces here and there. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Go read the first 10 pages of this thread. Haha....god...so many posters saying it was a crap trade based on absolutely no knowledge of who JT Miller was. Hillarious!! Good old sekeres saying it was pathetic.....what a dbag that idiot is. Edited October 11, 2019 by Kanukfanatic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 4 hours ago, LegionOfDoom said: Miller>20-25th pick all kidding aside I’m super happy this trade isint looking to be a hiccup in our rebuild well done Jim Pretty much. If the Canucks give a pick up in the 20s, this trade is worth it. If the Canucks give up a lottery pick, not worth it. Simple as that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, N4ZZY said: Fans sometimes over-react (myself included). I could see why people might have over-reacted to this. Miller was a risk, at least for me, cause I didn't know too much about the guy. But he had a four point night yesterday. That's crazy. I know that's not going to be the norm moving forward, but if he can get 60-65 points this season, that'd be insane. Seems to be a fit playing with Pettersson and Boeser it seems? I didn't get to see all of the game yesterday, only bits and pieces here and there. Perhaps a lesson to some to actually, at the very least, look up some information on the player you're unfamiliar with before freaking out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Wilbur said: Pretty much. If the Canucks give a pick up in the 20s, this trade is worth it. If the Canucks give up a lottery pick, not worth it. Simple as that. No it is not that simple. A team using the 10th to 15th overall pick in a draft HOPE they get a prospect that can turn into a player just as good as JT Miller. If we ended up giving up a 10th overall pick for him then it is still worth it imo. Obviously if that 10th overall turned into the 3rd or higher pick via lottery that would kinda suck. Improbable anyway. If we don't make the playoffs this year we certainly will next year and then Tampa gets a mediocre first round pick. Excellent trade by JB!! Edited October 11, 2019 by Kanukfanatic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Wilbur said: Pretty much. If the Canucks give a pick up in the 20s, this trade is worth it. If the Canucks give up a lottery pick, not worth it. Simple as that. If you look st expected values for first round draft slots, we’d be doing very well to get a player as good as Miller from 10th onwards. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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