[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[GhostsOf1994]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

The trade was a big risk.

 

Remembering we had not signed Ferland nor Myers.  We were not a slam dunk to make play off's. Still are not.

 

I did not like the trade when it happened.  I warmed up when JB made complimentary mobes, cough, Myers and Ferland. And I do appreciate he is trying to improve the team. 

 

I never questioned the actual value of the trade. Miller is worth the 1st round draft pick in the market. Never complained JB got bent over.

 

I just would have played the longer game of developing by draft.  

 

Now that its done? I admit I'm enjoying the better team. I'm also happy we moved Miller up to the first line. He was always a better talent than Ferland. Petey needs, and deserves puck skill. And as a fan, I'm going to support the team.    

Okay, I've broken the trade down a few times now.

As you said, we know what we got in miller, 4 more years in his prime for 5ish million.

 

The 1st round pick could be anywhere from #15 to 30ish, pick will defer to next years draft (2021) if the nucks miss the playoffs this year; 19/20.

 

So for humour lets look at it in depth.

 

What are the odds the player drafted by tampa develops into a nhler?

 

2020 or 2021 draft means that the player selected will likely take 1-4 years to develop.

 

So 2022 to 2024 is a safe bet for developing said draft pick into an nhl player.

 

How long before that player makes an impact at the NHL level?

 

What are the odds that said player will be as good or better then miller during his prime years in van?

 

What are the odds of the player tampa drafted even playing 100 nhl games?

 

Look at the depth the canucks have at forward? Pettersson Boeser Horvat Miller Ferland Pearson Baertschi are all signed for 2+ more seasons with podkolzin Hoglander Lind and karlsson( I think many sleep on him)

 

Lets look at D

 

Myers edler hughes benn are signed for 2+ years, add in Stecher, Tryamkin, Juolevi and Woo making pushes in the next 2 years

 

 

Goalies? Marky for one more year then Demko, Dipietro, Kielly, ARTURS!!

 

the Canucks had the opportunity to become better for 4 years at the cost of a draft pick  GMJB has already stated he will recoup.

 

How is this even close to anything but a win for the canucks and especially us, the fans?

[Yung1]

23 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Okay, I've broken the trade down a few times now.

As you said, we know what we got in miller, 4 more years in his prime for 5ish million.

 

The 1st round pick could be anywhere from #15 to 30ish, pick will defer to next years draft (2021) if the nucks miss the playoffs this year; 19/20.

 

So for humour lets look at it in depth.

 

What are the odds the player drafted by tampa develops into a nhler?

 

2020 or 2021 draft means that the player selected will likely take 1-4 years to develop.

 

So 2022 to 2024 is a safe bet for developing said draft pick into an nhl player.

 

How long before that player makes an impact at the NHL level?

 

What are the odds that said player will be as good or better then miller during his prime years in van?

 

What are the odds of the player tampa drafted even playing 100 nhl games?

 

Look at the depth the canucks have at forward? Pettersson Boeser Horvat Miller Ferland Pearson Baertschi are all signed for 2+ more seasons with podkolzin Hoglander Lind and karlsson( I think many sleep on him)

 

Lets look at D

 

Myers edler hughes benn are signed for 2+ years, add in Stecher, Tryamkin, Juolevi and Woo making pushes in the next 2 years

 

 

Goalies? Marky for one more year then Demko, Dipietro, Kielly, ARTURS!!

 

the Canucks had the opportunity to become better for 4 years at the cost of a draft pick  GMJB has already stated he will recoup.

 

How is this even close to anything but a win for the canucks and especially us, the fans?

this guy gets it

[189lb enforcers?]

6 hours ago, aGENT said:

Well.... technically he, prior to this season, had 435 regular season and 61 playoff NHL games played under his belt (and .055 and 0.43PPG respectively including early years where he was just entering the league), solid skating, solid 2 way play, good size/grit and can play all three F positions... with which to judge him. All before hitting the ice in a Canucks sweater and while also a bit buried on a deep Tampa team last year and part of the year before.

 

Hence why some of us were pretty excited when the trade happened. The last few games, just confirm what some of us already knew.

Tell this to all the whining faction which was busily posting about the lack of skill, etc. during that epic 2-game losing streak to start the season, not me. 

 

Miller is 189lb enforcers-approved hockey. That should be a given. 

 

I didn’t have any complaints when he was acquired, nor did I during his first two games.

 

It should come as no surprise to you or anyone else that I’d be a fan of his game and more importantly that I wasn’t snivelling in here or in other threads about the roster or his place within it. 

 

 

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Tell this to all the whining faction which was busily posting about the lack of skill, etc. during that epic 2-game losing streak to start the season, not me. 

 

Miller is 189lb enforcers-approved hockey. That should be a given. 

 

I didn’t have any complaints when he was acquired, nor did I during his first two games.

 

It should come as no surprise to you or anyone else that I’d be a fan of his game and more importantly that I wasn’t snivelling in here or in other threads about the roster or his place within it. 

 

 

They're no friends of mine either 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Okay, I've broken the trade down a few times now.

As you said, we know what we got in miller, 4 more years in his prime for 5ish million.

 

The 1st round pick could be anywhere from #15 to 30ish, pick will defer to next years draft (2021) if the nucks miss the playoffs this year; 19/20.

 

So for humour lets look at it in depth.

 

What are the odds the player drafted by tampa develops into a nhler?

 

2020 or 2021 draft means that the player selected will likely take 1-4 years to develop.

 

So 2022 to 2024 is a safe bet for developing said draft pick into an nhl player.

 

How long before that player makes an impact at the NHL level?

 

What are the odds that said player will be as good or better then miller during his prime years in van?

 

What are the odds of the player tampa drafted even playing 100 nhl games?

 

Look at the depth the canucks have at forward? Pettersson Boeser Horvat Miller Ferland Pearson Baertschi are all signed for 2+ more seasons with podkolzin Hoglander Lind and karlsson( I think many sleep on him)

 

Lets look at D

 

Myers edler hughes benn are signed for 2+ years, add in Stecher, Tryamkin, Juolevi and Woo making pushes in the next 2 years

 

 

Goalies? Marky for one more year then Demko, Dipietro, Kielly, ARTURS!!

 

the Canucks had the opportunity to become better for 4 years at the cost of a draft pick  GMJB has already stated he will recoup.

 

How is this even close to anything but a win for the canucks and especially us, the fans?

How is this close to anything but a win?

 

Its not any immediate loss. I already disclosed that Miller = fair market value for the picks.  It advances the rebuild. Which is a gain?  We will be better, short term, no doubt!

 

But we lose a 1st round pick & 3rd round pick.  We lose $5 mill in cap space.  We could have spent the $5 mill and still improved. Arguably not as much as having acquired Miller, but still the money would have been spent. That is what we do.

 

Where the loss will be felt is in 3/4 years when Millers contract is expiring.  And the draft picks would be arriving.  And the draft picks we pick up interim are not as high. I am a believer in building through the draft. 4 & 6 years from now we will have less young players on ELC's to continue fuelling any run we go on.

 

As to the odd's; the 1st round pick has about an 80% chance of being a 100 game player.  Probably half that to being as good as Miller. 

 

I can get behind it. But it is not something I would have done.

[zimmy]

8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

How is this close to anything but a win?

 

Its not any immediate loss. I already disclosed that Miller = fair market value for the picks.  It advances the rebuild. Which is a gain?  We will be better, short term, no doubt!

 

But we lose a 1st round pick & 3rd round pick.  We lose $5 mill in cap space.  We could have spent the $5 mill and still improved. Arguably not as much as having acquired Miller, but still the money would have been spent. That is what we do.

 

Where the loss will be felt is in 3/4 years when Millers contract is expiring.  And the draft picks would be arriving.  And the draft picks we pick up interim are not as high. I am a believer in building through the draft. 4 & 6 years from now we will have less young players on ELC's to continue fuelling any run we go on.

 

As to the odd's; the 1st round pick has about an 80% chance of being a 100 game player.  Probably half that to being as good as Miller. 

 

I can get behind it. But it is not something I would have done.

We can always "build through the draft" but would you agree that its high time we "win with the draft"? In other words  have confidence in the good job done over the past several drafts and allow this encouraging core to win now rather than wilt on the vine waiting for draft picks that won't arrive for two, three, four,  five years in the future? 

[GhostsOf1994]

15 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

How is this close to anything but a win?

 

Its not any immediate loss. I already disclosed that Miller = fair market value for the picks.  It advances the rebuild. Which is a gain?  We will be better, short term, no doubt!

 

But we lose a 1st round pick & 3rd round pick.  We lose $5 mill in cap space.  We could have spent the $5 mill and still improved. Arguably not as much as having acquired Miller, but still the money would have been spent. That is what we do.

 

Where the loss will be felt is in 3/4 years when Millers contract is expiring.  And the draft picks would be arriving.  And the draft picks we pick up interim are not as high. I am a believer in building through the draft. 4 & 6 years from now we will have less young players on ELC's to continue fuelling any run we go on.

 

As to the odd's; the 1st round pick has about an 80% chance of being a 100 game player.  Probably half that to being as good as Miller. 

 

I can get behind it. But it is not something I would have done.

Fair enough, thankfully we aren't in GMJB"s shoes.

[189lb enforcers?]

3 hours ago, aGENT said:

They're no friends of mine either 

What a year it should be, friend. 

Great hockey. 

[Boudrias]

Another aspect of the Miller deal is how much he will improve the development of the emerging stars, EP, BB and QH. How much does  a younger established vet influence his teammates? Benning has gone from having very few high quality young vets to a much higher level in 4 seasons. Comparing the pros and cons of Miller now versus a 1st rdr maybe making an impact in 4 years is valid but impacts will be felt through the roster. 

[Me_]

The amount of hate that day when Benning traded a 1st.

 

Its gonna be fun.

 

Real fun.

[Rush17]

Just now, Me_ said:

The amount of hate that day when Benning traded a 1st.

 

Its gonna be fun.

 

Real fun.

Jim also said they are going to try and add a first at this years draft too. Maybe if we are a good team tho he won't fiddle with the mix.  I thought they meant moving Tanev but if he's a healthy and stable partner for Hughes I'd rather keep him.

[Me_]

2 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Jim also said they are going to try and add a first at this years draft too. Maybe if we are a good team tho he won't fiddle with the mix.  I thought they meant moving Tanev but if he's a healthy and stable partner for Hughes I'd rather keep him.

Add Tryamkin

 

and Podkolzin 

 

This is gonna hurt other team real bad.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I liked the trade, early-on for a few reasons.

 

- I called it, with an April proposal to obtain JT Miller( love when Prop-guesses strike iron! )

- Felt we'd obtained 5 1st rounders over these past 2 drafts. Our stellar scouts bought us aggressive gambling clout, with their recent performance.

- As some have mentioned, adds to the depth, thereby enhancing the talent our youth can work with(esp Bo, EP, & AG)

 

Lastly RFA's have recently been acting a little uppity, in terms of $ demands. As JB pointed out, the past few Cup winners have underscored the necessity of having many capable vets. Too many costly UFA's & overpriced RFA's is a risky gambling endeavour a certain popular eastern team is engaging in. You need lots of guys in the 'mid-range' in terms of age & experience, with locked-in deals at reasonable rates. This lends itself to a balanced, efficient roster.

[VanIsleNuckFan]

2 hours ago, Me_ said:

Add Tryamkin

 

and Podkolzin 

 

This is gonna hurt other team real bad.

If that happens Ill wear a damn russia flag to a game, over my Tryamkin jersey of course...

 

Oh man, this Tryamkin talk...  ...he is playing well over there this year too.......

Edited October 12, 2019 by VanIsleNuckFan

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, zimmy said:

We can always "build through the draft" but would you agree that its high time we "win with the draft"? In other words  have confidence in the good job done over the past several drafts and allow this encouraging core to win now rather than wilt on the vine waiting for draft picks that won't arrive for two, three, four,  five years in the future? 

I'm not going to stop cheering for the Canucks. Nor am I going to avoid cheering for Miller.  He's here, he's a Canuck, my pom pom's are out!

 

But its not a deal I would have made.

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

- Felt we'd obtained 5 1st rounders over these past 2 drafts. Our stellar scouts bought us aggressive gambling clout, with their recent performance.

What 5 Nux?

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Fair enough, thankfully we aren't in GMJB"s shoes.

I cheer for JB as well. Believe he does a very good job. No hate whatsoever...

 

You never agree with all moves.  Generally the GM outperforms me as a critic. Which I accept. I liked Juolevi.  We were both wrong.  Tkachuk was a miss. I like Pettersson, drafted him in fantasy leagues. We were both right? I wanted to draft Nylander. No comment  

 

I never did think Jake was a bad pick though. 

 

The Canucks are improving. Its a great time to be a Canuck fan!

[Nuxfanabroad]

18 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

What 5 Nux?

QH, Woo, Madden

Podkolzin & Mr Elbows.

 

There are a number of experts who've said these guys were in their first rd rankings, or (even better) have climbed into that realm, imagining there were a 2018 re-draft.

[Canuck Surfer]

51 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

QH, Woo, Madden

Podkolzin & Mr Elbows.

 

There are a number of experts who've said these guys were in their first rd rankings, or (even better) have climbed into that realm, imagining there were a 2018 re-draft.

Hoglander has the elite athleticism. Upside in his skills. Un-guardable speed & strength. I'll buy that.

 

Woo and Madden are displaying fantastic compete levels. Good results. Can make plays. Good prospects. Coaches will still have plenty of match ups to deploy against them who can handle them physically. Its not the same.. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hoglander has the elite athleticism. Upside in his skills. Un-guardable speed & strength. I'll buy that.

 

Woo and Madden are displaying fantastic compete levels. Good results. Can make plays. Good prospects. Coaches will still have plenty of match ups to deploy against them who can handle them physically. Its not the same.. 

If there were a redraft today(2018 class) are you saying none of the 31 teams would select Woo or Madden 1st round? Admittedly I only watch NHL play over here..but from what I've heard, either of them have been upgraded(based on last season) as worthy late-1st picks.