[Trade] Lightning trade J.T. Miller to Canucks for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd-round pick, 2020 conditional 1st-round pick

[shazzam]

5 minutes ago, Me_ said:

Umm.....

 

The Canucks finished 9th last and only 9pts out of a playoff spot.

 

5 more wins and we’re in the playoffs.

and 5 more losses and we're at the bottom

[Wanless]

32 minutes ago, mpt said:

Not making the comparison as a player.  I’m saying just because you are on a 2nd line doesn’t mean you are a bonafide 2nd liner.  Lots of $&!#ty players played consistently on a 2nd line, doesn’t mean they should or that they are 2nd liners

What makes a second liner a second liner to you?

[surtur]

I dont see the problem with this trade.

That 1st is most likely 4-6 years away from being an impact in the NHL and I dont think fits the timeline JB has for the club to be a contender. In the meantime we get 4 years of a quality NHL player to play with our decent young guys now.  

I think if Ep40 wasn't as good as he turned out to be this trade wouldn't have happened at least not with the first involved. 

Just my take.

[goblix]

5 minutes ago, Specz said:

??? What? Half the things you just mentioned are not even facts they're assumptions.

1) There were talks about bringing Podkolzin a year sooner by buying out his last contract year in the KHL

 2) How are you so sure about Hoglander's development? We JUST drafted these 2 guys and you already have their entire NHL trajectory planned out?

 3) So your plan is to just assume that they WON'T perform and assume for the worst and not worry about cap space at all? If that's the case let's just spend to the cap NOW. Surely Demko won't be good, Juolevi will never amount to anything, Woo won't come in anytime later season and impress.

4) People said cap was going to go up THIS YEAR. But here we are and news is that Cap is probably not going up by much at all. Nowhere near what it was estimated to be. You don't even know this as a fact. "it's silly to think that this 5.5m hampers any contract re-signings" Do you think it's silly for the Oilers to think Lucic's 6m contract is hampering their cap? The truth is, every contract counts when you are spending close to the cap like the Canucks will.

5) And the final nail in the coffin... you said that there was "so much wrong" in my post, yet you have given nothing but assumptions and opinions, all of which could just be AS WRONG at the end of the day.

 

My concern simply is that upon spending to keep everyone together, we will still NOT BE good enough. Should that be the case, moves will have to be made to make us competitive, with the likelihood that core pieces will have to be moved. That is ALL I'm saying. You can think that isn't likely, but you can't be certain that it's wrong.

i apologize for being pretty rash in saying you were wrong. I do understand you're stand point and I'm gonna try to make this a more friendly rebuttal

 

the main problems I had with was the Podkolzin and Hoglander points, their ELC will indeed put them out of the range of JT Miller's contract and these are not assumptions:

Podkolzin said he was going to play out the verbal agreement he has. Even if he gets out of the last year and signs his 3 year ELC that puts his contract AFTER Miller's

Hoglander, I am super excited for him but he's 5' 8" and is likely not going to be in the NHL next year. If he ends up playing a year in the SHL then I'm pretty sure his contract slides and it's 4 years and he's in the same boat of Podkolzin.

 

 

I like having cap flexibility as much as any other guy but as we move forward the line contracts do run out. 

In 1 year contracts expiring: Tanev, Schaller, Spooner, Markstrom -- 13m

in 2 years contracts expiring: Edler, Pearson, Sutter, Baertschi -- 17.4m

in 3 years contracts expiring: Erickson, Roussel, Beagle -- 12m

 

The above shows that we have a ton of cap clearing out throughout the 1-4 years. Now we may be signing Markstrom / Pearson to another contract but overall there is cap here to regain, like 3.1m in spooner, and edler in 6m (perhaps retiring at that time or sign cheaper)

 

We have flexibility in terms of contracts out to fit any of our guys. Also in terms of Juolevi and Demko they are likely to be resigned to a bridge deal 2-3 years considering their current trajectory in the NHL. (Demko hasn't had enough starts, and Juolevi too injured to put down big money down on now). Most importantly if there is a player worth while then the Canucks will find a way to fit them in.

[-AJ-]

Just now, shazzam said:

and 5 more losses and we're at the bottom

Sure, but why should we fall? We've been moving upwards in both the last two seasons and have a full season of Hughes next year. Our best players are all still very young and are likely to continue improving. I don't see a good case (outside of guessing at worse injuries than the last two years), that we'll be worse next year.

[Roberts]

the Canucks can still trade down for a first whichever year the trade takes place in. they got a good player, im not worried.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

And that's with injuries to Petey, Beagle, Sutter, Edler, Markstrom, and Tanev. 

No excuses. The team should have still been able to make it in without those guys.  Pffttttt!!!!!

[ilduce39]

6 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

By that brilliant logic we should trade all our picks away every year. 

It’s not a bad strategy if money isn’t an issue.  A big bonus of draft picks is having ELCs / RFAs to fill out your roster and help manage the cap.  

 

If we’re talking the average late 1st pick, Miller probably adds more to the team.

 

You do need to keep that pipeline intact though.

[aqua59]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Colin Miller from Vegas would have been cheaper for Clarkson's contract maybe?

 

Come on use that cap space

 

JT Miller is signed through 2022/2023 with a $5.25 million contract and plays center.

 

Will Sutter go???

I've wanted Sutter gone for a while. Another guy that was injured too much.

 

[Comeback_Kings]

9 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Miller trade is 100% about Benning trying to get his team in the playoffs after missing for 4 years.

 

I don't know any GM that wouldn't be trying to do that.

Miller was a 15th overall first round pick out of the USND program.  A lot of people wanted Boldy with our fist pick this year. Will Boldy ever be as good a pro as JT  Miller?  Will he ever bring the kind of tenacity Miller brings to the ice?  We get the player now.  Canucks have a decent amount of futures and with this trade we also get to live and win in the now.   

[CanadianRugby]

7 minutes ago, logic said:

You’re right your logic is better, don’t make any trades to improve the team at all, let’s only ice players that have been drafted by the Canucks 

When did I say I didn't want any trades at all?  

 

Please explain how the Canucks could have gotten Horvat, Boeser & Petey if they had traded their 1st round picks away.  

[bad alice french]

17 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Do people really think teams are just going to give away 50 point players with term on a good contract?

 

The problem people have on here is that they make up these ridiculous values for players and then are disappointed when they cost more.

 

Miller would easily fetch a 1st and a prospect at the trade deadline, difference is we'll be getting him for the whole year.

 

The plan should be to make the playoffs by 2021 so that first round pick should be around the 20th. A pick like that can always be recouped later.

 

I'm excited our top 6 is finally shaping up:

 

Panarin - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson Horvat Miller

 

If we can dump Eriksson and go all in on Panarin, that 1st pick will likely be a late one.

Thank you. I was getting angry. 

[DeNiro]

8 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

This player and salary cap is not the issue.

 

The more important need on defence has not been addressed. Given what was delivered on the P.K. Subban trade, that is what the focus ought to have been. 

 

The Canucks blew their first on a top 6 winger. That would have been fine if we didn’t have this disaster on defence.

 

Don’t rely on July 1. There will be no top end defencemen available and all those average ones will be way over paid.

I'm still expecting a trade for a defenseman.

 

The Barrie deal could still happen, but if fans didn't like giving up a 1st, I'm guessing they're not gonna like giving up guys like Virtanen, Gaudette, DiPietro, and Woo. A deal involving Stecher, Sutter, a top prospect, and a 2nd could still happen. 

[mpt]

1 minute ago, Wanless said:

What makes a second liner a second liner to you?

Horvat, if Miller plays as well as Horvat, its worth the trade.

 

I like the player, don’t like the trade.  If he plays as good as Horvat, I’ll change my opinion

[canuck73_3]

Just now, CanadianRugby said:

When did I say I didn't want any trades at all?  

 

Please explain how the Canucks could have gotten Horvat, Boeser & Petey if they had traded their 1st round picks away.  

They didn't so that is irrelevant 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, mpt said:

Horvat, if Miller plays as well as Horvat, its worth the trade.

 

I like the player, don’t like the trade.  If he plays as good as Horvat, I’ll change my opinion

Horvat .33 points per minute

Miller .30 points per minute.

[CanadianRugby]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

They didn't so that is irrelevant 

You've lost your way.  This isn't the Bruins forum bud. 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, CanadianRugby said:

You've lost your way.  This isn't the Bruins forum bud. 

[mpt]

Just now, canuck73_3 said:

Horvat .33 points per minute

Miller .30 points per minute.

Players are more than points

[Generational.EP40]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

false equivalency between Miller and Zucker 

 

Was not interested in Zucker (or the other comparables) and made it very clear why. My targets would be quite different - the difference between Miller and the Skinner, Zucker types would be a good indication of the difference between the guys you name and the type of player I would pursue.

 

Spending one 1st on Miller implicates no one in a scheme to lose your mind and spend all the future 1sts on whatever random target emerges in the rumour mill.

Nope, I’m talking about impact players such as Miller who can make us better now.

 

Ok if not literally Zucker, I mean other similar impact players such as Zucker and Barrie. Just has to be an impact player like Miller is my point.

 

So spending future 1sts for similar players in your own words is “losing your mind” but this trade isn’t? Seems a bit hypocritical if you ask me or anyone. And they’re not random targets, we’ve been linked to them as we were to Miller.