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Nils Hoglander | #21 | LW


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24 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Marchand is an effective player. He throws players/teams off their game. Who says the Canucks won’t be a hard team to play against when/if Hoglander makes it here? 

Marchand's also one slew foot away from a 20-game suspension. His offense is incredibly good, but I don't think the level of his agitation is worth the suspensions and how much he also distracts his own team. It's clear that sometimes even his teammates get frustrated with his antics.

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29 minutes ago, Pickly said:

Marchand is an effective player. He throws players/teams off their game. Who says the Canucks won’t be a hard team to play against when/if Hoglander makes it here? 

way waaaay more so as a scorer than a pest though. He’s found that level of walking the line now where he can be effective where as before his coaches were telling him to tone it down. Hog isn’t at that level and I don’t want to see him at the level where the coaches are telling him to stop. 
 

To the level of the Bruins? We would need to make the finals at least once with this group and have a whole lot of playoff success before we’re even close to the level that the Bruins are now.

Edited by Junkyard Dog
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22 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Marchand's also one slew foot away from a 20-game suspension. His offense is incredibly good, but I don't think the level of his agitation is worth the suspensions and how much he also distracts his own team. It's clear that sometimes even his teammates get frustrated with his antics.

True. Fortunately Hogs doesn't seem to be anything like Marchand. Throwing up your elbow a couple of times to protect yourself when you are being hit doesn't come anywhere close to Marchand's level.

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1 hour ago, Junkyard Dog said:

way waaaay more so as a scorer than a pest though. He’s found that level of walking the line now where he can be effective where as before his coaches were telling him to tone it down. Hog isn’t at that level and I don’t want to see him at the level where the coaches are telling him to stop. 
 

To the level of the Bruins? We would need to make the finals at least once with this group and have a whole lot of playoff success before we’re even close to the level that the Bruins are now.

It took him 9 years as a pro(1.5 in ahl) before he scored more than a point a game. He was definitely not known as a prolific scorer until the last couple of years.

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Hoglander was an absolute revelation in this tournament and he's been a blast to watch. So much skill. I'm hoping he will be in Utica on a PTO at the end of this season and potentially makes the big club opening day in September next year, or the subsequent one. I like his feisty nature but there is no doubt the hit today wasn't a clean play. I think we should all admit to ourselves that although we love this player, he made a dumb play that cost his team today. He'll be great in the future for the club but if we can't admit that there was no need for this play, and that it was not merely Hogz defending himself then we are making bad faith arguments; defending a player just because he's one of ours. Let's also avoid terms like snowflakes and making huge generalizations about millennials on this board. That stuff is just not part of this discussion, Let's just argue about hockey and not be petulant towards others opinions. The poster earlier who wanted a 'safe work environment' completely has a point, players need to have respect for each other and it isn't endangering the physical nature of the game despite what the Rock em sock em crowd argues. 

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4 hours ago, 112 said:

okay so if a safe work environment isn't important, why do goalies wear masks? just because every one since jacques plante has been a marvel superhero with a double-secret identity of playing ice hockey? they go into the dressing room, sneak out the back dressed up like bums, and have their PR guy come out to handle the media and pretend he was in net while looking nothing like them? for what purpose? like what do the superheroes get from it? or are they villains?

I agree Hoglander shouldn’t be a cheap shot artist... nor should he target the head or play with any intent to injure.  Ethics and honour aside,  nothing about that helps us win. 
 

I do think a high skill guy who plays with an edge is a valuable commodity, though.  He won’t be afraid when things get tough and some feistiness can drag his teammates into the fight.  The key here is that Hog is a high skill kid - he’s not looking to win the game with a hit.  He can do that with his skill... but it doesn’t look like he’ll get squeamish in the playoffs.

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10 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am going to sound like a homer for a second......

 

But, I was looking at the TSN U20 video of the Hoglander hit on Denisenko…..I re-ran it multiple times

 

A lot of things happened there, just prior to the hit and during the hit

 

#1. Denisenko had just jumped on the ice when Hoglander came across center ice, after just going around a opposing player

#2. Denisenko made a direct line towards Hoglander, to initiate contact 

#3, Hoglander sees Denisenko and dumps the puck in, 10 ft on the Russian side of center ice,contact happened at 20 ft inside the Russian side

#4, Denisenko is still skating directly at Hoglander at that point

#5. You can see Hoglander with knees bent shift his body weight having decided to accept the contact which was immanent

#6. Denisenko was skating slower than Hoglander, and realized  that Hoglander had position on him, and speed

#7. Hoglander initiates contact with his elbow down and shoulder up

#8. Denisenko stays down, knees bent to brace for impact, with a lower center of gravity

#9. Denisenko was looking at Hoglander at all times (no blind side hit)

10. Hoglander contacts Denisenko's shoulder, then immediately after, contacts Denisenko's head

11. The initial contact was on the shoulder (Fact)

12. Elbow was down on initial contact and only moved during follow-through

13. Hoglander is 5'9" and Denisenko is 5'11"

14. The referee makes call immediately, without consultation with other refs

 

Old school thinking, is that Denisenko initiated the contact 

He choose to close the gap and he choose to stay low

And lost...………...too bad!

 

New school thinking is the player that won is at fault

and it is irrelevant what part of the body the initial contact was made on

 

Blow whistle immediately "IF" it "LOOKS" bad.

 

You will notice the time it took to make the right call on the Russian hit...much longer

and no knee jerk reaction....

 

OK...I feel better now! Thanks!

Why wouldn't Hoglander be the target on that play? He is the top scorer in the tourny! The Russian player was not trying to avoid the contact and Hogs did not move towards the Russian. It was a physical play that had a player go down. Last I checked hockey was still a physical game. 

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Here’s an interesting vintage Bure. The first bit shows what happens on smaller players.....and then shows how Bure stopped it from happening in the future.

 

Hog is saying does mess with him from the start.....so player won’t bully him.

 

yes Bure hit was super dirty....but players gave him instant respect after and never tried too bully him again.

 

so as Canucks we can expect nobody will bully our Hog. He has it controlled.

 

Edited by HockeyHarry
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