Nils Hoglander | #21 | LW

[AK_19]

I'd prefer he avoid Utica and stay in the SHL until he's ripe for the NHL. The past year hasn't provided me a lot of confidence in our forward development in Utica. Obviously my opinion would change if Lind/Gadjovich/Jasek/Palmu significant steps forward there this year.

[D.B Cooper]

8 hours ago, dpn1 said:

Don't get me wrong, as I really like this kid but I would rather him in Utica for a year instead of in Vancouver playing 3rd or 4th line minutes.  He is not Pete and I think we have been spoiled with some guys stepping right in and having an impact (Brock, Bo, Pete, and even Stecher).  Its the same with how everyone wanted to see our guys make the NHL but not all do.  The draft is not a sure thing.  After the first round things seem like more of a crap shoot.  Petrus Palmu is an excellent example.  He was a steal because he put up a lot of points in Jr.  Built like a brick wall but only 5'7".  We need more realism when it comes to Prospects.

Please explain to me how a tiny kid with a bad attitude who will probably never play in the league is a steal.....

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

Please explain to me how a tiny kid with a bad attitude who will probably never play in the league is a steal.....

I think he means Hoglander (5’9” 180 lbs) was a steal.  Palmu is a punk.  

[JM_]

why all the hate for Palmu all of the sudden? kids right where he should be, he wasn't ready for Utica yet. 

[Alflives]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

why all the hate for Palmu all of the sudden? kids right where he should be, he wasn't ready for Utica yet. 

He went home so he can illegally kill fish.  He’s a fish killer.  

[JM_]

Just now, Alflives said:

He went home so he can illegally kill fish.  He’s a fish killer.  

careful he could be part Sami and be allowed to do that. Dunno, seemed like a decent kid to me, just got overwhelmed with the situation. Sounds like he might be back for the Utica playoffs. 

 

He might be a great energy line addition in a few years. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

careful he could be part Sami and be allowed to do that. Dunno, seemed like a decent kid to me, just got overwhelmed with the situation. Sounds like he might be back for the Utica playoffs. 

 

He might be a great energy line addition in a few years. 

He has a lot of skill, that’s for sure. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, AK_19 said:

I'd prefer he avoid Utica and stay in the SHL until he's ripe for the NHL. The past year hasn't provided me a lot of confidence in our forward development in Utica. Obviously my opinion would change if Lind/Gadjovich/Jasek/Palmu significant steps forward there this year.

Considering most of their top prospects were/are either in the NHL, college or Europe, it shouldn't be surprising the prospects in Utica aren't setting the world on fire in Utica.

[AK_19]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

Considering most of their top prospects were/are either in the NHL, college or Europe, it shouldn't be surprising the prospects in Utica aren't setting the world on fire in Utica.

I don't buy this "the prospects were garbage to begin with" attitude.  Lind and Gadjovich were 2nd round picks, just like Hoglander. They both performed very well in the CHL the season before going to the AHL. 

[dpn1]

2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

Please explain to me how a tiny kid with a bad attitude who will probably never play in the league is a steal.....

Go take a look at the first few pages of his thread and you will see what I am talking about.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, AK_19 said:

I don't buy this "the prospects were garbage to begin with" attitude.  Lind and Gadjovich were 2nd round picks, just like Hoglander. They both performed very well in the CHL the season before going to the AHL. 

2nd round picks have a slightly m chance of ever playing an NHL game.......most become solid AHL pros.

[Pure961089]

The Problem with Utica is their fan base doesn’t care about “player development” they want wins.  And there’s pressure on Cull to dress a winning lineup.  I’m surprised they let Kero go to be honest.  Developing Canuck prospects in Utica is secondary.  But as long as the team sells out and makes money, winning will always be Culls #1 priority. 

[Phat Fingers]

10 hours ago, AK_19 said:

I don't buy this "the prospects were garbage to begin with" attitude.  Lind and Gadjovich were 2nd round picks, just like Hoglander. They both performed very well in the CHL the season before going to the AHL. 

Having rookies struggle to adjust to Pro hockey is normal.  Hogslander is already playing pro hockey.  

 

CHL is amateur and against players the same age.  It's a huge jump, especially for those that relied more on strength and size vs skill and speed.  

 

Folks on this board focus way too much on first year pro players failings.  Failing is part of development and this year will show whether Gads and Lind learned from their shortcomings.  

 

If Hogslander was to play in Utica, he would be a key influence by adding skill to the lineup.  Something we hoped Dahlen would do last year.  Hogslander's fitness and work ethic are on a whole other level.  Don't think we would have nearly the same issues. 

 

[WeneedLumme]

4 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

Having rookies struggle to adjust to Pro hockey is normal.  Hogslander is already playing pro hockey.  

 

CHL is amateur and against players the same age.  It's a huge jump, especially for those that relied more on strength and size vs skill and speed.  

 

Folks on this board focus way too much on first year pro players failings.  Failing is part of development and this year will show whether Gads and Lind learned from their shortcomings.  

 

If Hogslander was to play in Utica, he would be a key influence by adding skill to the lineup.  Something we hoped Dahlen would do last year.  Hogslander's fitness and work ethic are on a whole other level.  Don't think we would have nearly the same issues. 

 

Absolutely. It is ridiculous to whine because players take some time to adjust to the huge difference between playing against amateur children and playing against professional men.

[higgyfan]

18 hours ago, AK_19 said:

I don't buy this "the prospects were garbage to begin with" attitude.  Lind and Gadjovich were 2nd round picks, just like Hoglander. They both performed very well in the CHL the season before going to the AHL. 

My sense is that the CHL doesn't prepare these kids for pro hockey they way the Euro/college leagues do.  It appears to be such a huge jump from Jrs to the AHL and many of the young guys struggle mightily.  It's such a competitive and grinding league with much bigger and better players.

 

In he article about Lind/Gadj (in the Lind section), the players talk about the struggles they faced, as well as the injuries that affected their development.  They came off the season with a lot of learning and understanding what they need to do to become better pro players. 

 

I anticipate a much better season for both these players.

[Ihatetomatoes]

2 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

My sense is that the CHL doesn't prepare these kids for pro hockey they way the Euro/college leagues do.  It appears to be such a huge jump from Jrs to the AHL and many of the young guys struggle mightily.  It's such a competitive and grinding league with much bigger and better players.

 

In he article about Lind/Gadj (in the Lind section), the players talk about the struggles they faced, as well as the injuries that affected their development.  They came off the season with a lot of learning and understanding what they need to do to become better pro players. 

 

I anticipate a much better season for both these players.

I don't really agree as if you look at almost every player that went the route route from the CHL throught the AHL and eventually became an NHL regular they didn't struggle that much to make the jump to the AHL.  It's quite rare to see a guy that scored less than .4ppg in his first year go on to a successful NHL career.

[theo5789]

53 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

My sense is that the CHL doesn't prepare these kids for pro hockey they way the Euro/college leagues do.  It appears to be such a huge jump from Jrs to the AHL and many of the young guys struggle mightily.  It's such a competitive and grinding league with much bigger and better players.

 

In he article about Lind/Gadj (in the Lind section), the players talk about the struggles they faced, as well as the injuries that affected their development.  They came off the season with a lot of learning and understanding what they need to do to become better pro players. 

 

I anticipate a much better season for both these players.

In college, you get to mature a few more years before even attempting the NHL (around age 21-22). There are lesser games, so more time for the gym. In CHL, they're playing a bunch of games and some are focusing of school work in their off time and they turn "pro" at 19-20 years old.

 

In Europe, there seems to be more freedom for the players. The best young players can jump up a league and play against tougher competition. But this competition while the best in their countries are not at the NHL level. So they would be getting somewhat "AHL" seasoned playing against men, so making the jump isn't as big of a surprise, but there are struggles in culture and different style of play from differing leagues.

 

The CHL is flawed because some good players don't have the opportunity to play against a higher level due to the rules bound to them. So they get caught in this bubble where they could develop but either have to jump to the NHL or stay in juniors. The CHL is a money making business (to support the operations of running the team, not necessarily a money grab), so I get why they want to try and hang onto their talents, but it shouldn't be a surprise that these players may have a tougher challenge to make the jump immediately.

[cyoung]

7 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

In college, you get to mature a few more years before even attempting the NHL (around age 21-22). There are lesser games, so more time for the gym. In CHL, they're playing a bunch of games and some are focusing of school work in their off time and they turn "pro" at 19-20 years old.

 

In Europe, there seems to be more freedom for the players. The best young players can jump up a league and play against tougher competition. But this competition while the best in their countries are not at the NHL level. So they would be getting somewhat "AHL" seasoned playing against men, so making the jump isn't as big of a surprise, but there are struggles in culture and different style of play from differing leagues.

 

The CHL is flawed because some good players don't have the opportunity to play against a higher level due to the rules bound to them. So they get caught in this bubble where they could develop but either have to jump to the NHL or stay in juniors. The CHL is a money making business (to support the operations of running the team, not necessarily a money grab), so I get why they want to try and hang onto their talents, but it shouldn't be a surprise that these players may have a tougher challenge to make the jump immediately.

On point. 

 

It's a huge culture and lifestyle shock. All of a sudden you are in charge of your own food, groceries, training... You have to hold yourself accountable. We are too hard on these kids, give them a few years to adjust to being an adult... Virtanen is a great example.

[theo5789]

9 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

The Problem with Utica is their fan base doesn’t care about “player development” they want wins.  And there’s pressure on Cull to dress a winning lineup.  I’m surprised they let Kero go to be honest.  Developing Canuck prospects in Utica is secondary.  But as long as the team sells out and makes money, winning will always be Culls #1 priority. 

Why can't it be both? When you're trying to win, you're playing your best players in the best positions to accomplish this. You're setting a standard for the team. If your prospects cannot play better than these players and contribute towards the winning, how does playing more minutes in a losing environment beneficial? They are creating competition just like at the NHL level, so being consistent throughout the system is the best way for transitioning players. If a young player gets used to being handle big minutes, then the NHL is where you have to earn your minutes, you're going to get a lot of frustrated players not realizing the work that needs to be put in to take it to the next level.

 

Kero perhaps wanted a different opportunity. We are only allowed a certain number of vets. We likely are projecting Gaudette to start in Utica and he is projected to be in the top 6 there. We have other players to support him at center. Kero wasn't a need for us.

[Ray_Cathode]

21 hours ago, Alflives said:

He went home so he can illegally kill fish.  He’s a fish killer.  

I like slaying fish myself.  Then I take them apart and cook the flesh and eat them.  I have yet to hear a fish invoke any individual rights, nor have I seen a single picket line of parading fish.