Nils Hoglander | #21 | LW

[Pure961089]

50 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Why can't it be both? When you're trying to win, you're playing your best players in the best positions to accomplish this. You're setting a standard for the team. If your prospects cannot play better than these players and contribute towards the winning, how does playing more minutes in a losing environment beneficial? They are creating competition just like at the NHL level, so being consistent throughout the system is the best way for transitioning players. If a young player gets used to being handle big minutes, then the NHL is where you have to earn your minutes, you're going to get a lot of frustrated players not realizing the work that needs to be put in to take it to the next level.

 

Kero perhaps wanted a different opportunity. We are only allowed a certain number of vets. We likely are projecting Gaudette to start in Utica and he is projected to be in the top 6 there. We have other players to support him at center. Kero wasn't a need for us.

You have to pick one or the other, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  With development you’re going to go through struggles, but once they’ve gone fought through those trials and come out the other side as better players the winning will come.  But winning at all cost by giving Kero and Boucher the lions share of the icetime and PP isn’t helping develop our prospects.  Lind, Gaudette and Gadjovich need to be thrown into the top 6.  Being Forged Through Fire often yield the best results.  

[Putgolzin]

1 hour ago, Pure961089 said:

You have to pick one or the other, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Why not?

What's the point of having cake if you don't get to eat it?

And if you eat cake, you've got to expect to get punched by the dude who had the cake?

[stawns]

12 hours ago, Pure961089 said:

The Problem with Utica is their fan base doesn’t care about “player development” they want wins.  And there’s pressure on Cull to dress a winning lineup.  I’m surprised they let Kero go to be honest.  Developing Canuck prospects in Utica is secondary.  But as long as the team sells out and makes money, winning will always be Culls #1 priority. 

I think that's part of it, for sure, but you can't fault them for that either.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Pure961089 said:

You have to pick one or the other, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.  With development you’re going to go through struggles, but once they’ve gone fought through those trials and come out the other side as better players the winning will come.  But winning at all cost by giving Kero and Boucher the lions share of the icetime and PP isn’t helping develop our prospects.  Lind, Gaudette and Gadjovich need to be thrown into the top 6.  Being Forged Through Fire often yield the best results.  

You don't have to win, but you put your best team forward because that's the benchmark. If your prospects cannot work and outplay the top 6 available, then why do they deserve it? They need to learn and understand that it's not easy to make it to the NHL (and it shouldn't be). There needs to be a standard as to who gets the prime development time and that's determined when the cream rises to the top. The goal for any team is to win and if the prospects contribute to that winning, then they will be played in the prime roles. Until then, the vets are placeholders and competition to challenge the prospects (much like how the NHL club has run the show). That IMO is the best way to develop the player in a meaningful way that will get them to stick in the NHL should they be able to achieve it. If they can't breakthrough this, then perhaps they won't make it when the challenges get even tougher at the highest level anyway. The players seem to understand this from their interviews and the ones that don't like it complain and are sent off (where is Dahlen now?).

 

Let's not forget that Lind and Gadjovich had injury set backs as well which may have slowed down their progress just like Juolevi.

[48MPHSlapShot]

On 9/8/2019 at 3:11 PM, AK_19 said:

I'd prefer he avoid Utica and stay in the SHL until he's ripe for the NHL. The past year hasn't provided me a lot of confidence in our forward development in Utica. Obviously my opinion would change if Lind/Gadjovich/Jasek/Palmu significant steps forward there this year.

I still have hopes for some of our these guys, but until we see someone that wasn't NHL-ready on arrival outside of goaltenders step in from Utica and make an impact, there are always going to be question marks surrounding our development. 

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I think that's part of it, for sure, but you can't fault them for that either.

One reason why the Canucks should have their AHL team in the lower mainland.  

I wouldn't mind driving out a bit to watch the new prospects for like $15-25 per ticket.  

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

One reason why the Canucks should have their AHL team in the lower mainland.  

I wouldn't mind driving out a bit to watch the new prospects for like $15-25 per ticket.  

the argument against that has been, and will likely continue to be, that there's too much travel out west in the AHL.  The Comets have very little travel and that means significantly more developement time.

[Lancaster]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

the argument against that has been, and will likely continue to be, that there's too much travel out west in the AHL.  The Comets have very little travel and that means significantly more developement time.

Probably back when the Heat was around.  But with a lot of teams down in California, Arizona and Texas, it's not really that big of a deal anymore.  

[stawns]

27 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Probably back when the Heat was around.  But with a lot of teams down in California, Arizona and Texas, it's not really that big of a deal anymore.  

of course it is, most of the Comets games are within a few hours of home, in BC, they would be long, extended road trips..........California, Texas and Arizona are a long way away.

 

Bakersfield Cali is 1900 kms

Tuscon is 2700 kms

Cedar Park Texas is 3600 kms

 

to compare

Van to Winnipeg is 2300 kms

Van to Thunder Bay is 3000 kms

Van to Sault St Marie is 3600 kms

Edited September 10, 2019 by stawns

[Lancaster]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

of course it is, most of the Comets games are within a few hours of home, in BC, they would be long, extended road trips..........California, Texas and Arizona are a long way away.

Not really different from what the Canucks do.  Vancouver to LA is like a 3 hour flight.  

With a lot of Utica's travel being by bus, maybe it's more relaxing to sit in a plane.  With more road trips, it will (hopefully) lead to more combined home games too.  

 

But regardless, having the team in Abbotsford, at the PNE, or another GVRD city would allow players to focus on developing rather than having the team juggling with winning.  Preferably both of course, but I think most Canucks fans wouldn't care as much for losing if the prospects are playing well and developing.  

The last thing I want the Canucks to have is a situation similar to with the Chicago Wolves and how they were more concerned by competitiveness rather than prospect development.  

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Not really different from what the Canucks do.  Vancouver to LA is like a 3 hour flight.  

With a lot of Utica's travel being by bus, maybe it's more relaxing to sit in a plane.  With more road trips, it will (hopefully) lead to more combined home games too.  

 

But regardless, having the team in Abbotsford, at the PNE, or another GVRD city would allow players to focus on developing rather than having the team juggling with winning.  Preferably both of course, but I think most Canucks fans wouldn't care as much for losing if the prospects are playing well and developing.  

The last thing I want the Canucks to have is a situation similar to with the Chicago Wolves and how they were more concerned by competitiveness rather than prospect development.  

The point is that they would have very long, extended road trips, which hurts, not helps development.  In Utica they are home most nights and get extra practice/gym and recovery time.  That's a huge advantage.

 

They had an affiliation with the Wolves, they own the Comets

Edited September 10, 2019 by stawns

[Phat Fingers]

19 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

I don't really agree as if you look at almost every player that went the route route from the CHL throught the AHL and eventually became an NHL regular they didn't struggle that much to make the jump to the AHL.  It's quite rare to see a guy that scored less than .4ppg in his first year go on to a successful NHL career.

Nope, not even close.  

[RetroCanuck]

14 hours ago, stawns said:

the argument against that has been, and will likely continue to be, that there's too much travel out west in the AHL.  The Comets have very little travel and that means significantly more developement time.

Not to mention the increased pressure from a Canucks audience. Look at how most of this board reacts and then put them in the stands.

[Ihatetomatoes]

1 hour ago, Phat Fingers said:

Nope, not even close.  

Prove it

[Phat Fingers]

7 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said:

Prove it

You are the one making the claim, so you need to "prove it".  That's how it works.  

 

Asking me to 'prove' a negative is disingenuous.  

 

Just to make it easy for you, look at players this team developed and you could make the journey short.  

 

Also if you mean no 'star players' vs players it could make it easier.  Maybe differ between top line, second line etc... 

[Dixon Ward]

Looks like Hoglander assisted on the OT winner in today's game vs. Vaxjo.  E. Petersson also got a couple of points for Vaxjo!  (Emil)

[Ihatetomatoes]

12 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

You are the one making the claim, so you need to "prove it".  That's how it works.  

 

Asking me to 'prove' a negative is disingenuous.  

 

Just to make it easy for you, look at players this team developed and you could make the journey short.  

 

Also if you mean no 'star players' vs players it could make it easier.  Maybe differ between top line, second line etc... 

Past or present players on this team  that went through the CHL to the AHL to the Canucks in their 1st years in the AHL. (More than 15 games)

 

Jannick Hansen 34pts 72 games .47ppg

Cody Hodgson 30pts 52 games .57ppg

Michael Grabner 44pts in 74 games .59ppg

Sven Baertchi 26pts in 32 games .81ppg

Jay Beagle 36pts in 64 games .56 ppg

Michael Ferland 18pts in 25 games .72ppg

Tanner Pearson 47pts in 64 games .73ppg

Brandon Sutter 12pts in 22 games .54ppg

 

Like I said it's rare to find a player that scored less than .4ppg in their 1st year in the AHL go on to NHL success whether they are 4th liners or 1st liners.  Please show me these guys you are hinting to on our team

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:02 PM, stawns said:

the argument against that has been, and will likely continue to be, that there's too much travel out west in the AHL.  The Comets have very little travel and that means significantly more developement time.

Doesn’t do much good if you’re not playing them. If a team in Abby was Canucks owned and developing prospects for the Canucks, they wouldn’t have much trouble filling the rink. When the Flames farm team played the Canucks farm team in Abbotsford, the rink was filled - less than half full the rest of the time.  When you are a Canucks’ fan it’s hard to get up for ‘Lames farm team game. As for practice time, plenty of ice available in Abby, away from home, practice time is all about planning and scheduling ice - it is a management problem.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Doesn’t do much good if you’re not playing them. If a team in Abby was Canucks owned and developing prospects for the Canucks, they wouldn’t have much trouble filling the rink. When the Flames farm team played the Canucks farm team in Abbotsford, the rink was filled - less than half full the rest of the time.  When you are a Canucks’ fan it’s hard to get up for ‘Lames farm team game. As for practice time, plenty of ice available in Abby, away from home, practice time is all about planning and scheduling ice - it is a management problem.

Heard a player agent on 650 this morning saying that it’s not the best having our farm team in Utica.  It’s just too far.  He said many teams are getting their top farm team close to home.  Utica is a really good hockey town, but our developing players should be way closer to home.  Abbotsford would be great. 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 9/9/2019 at 5:44 PM, Lancaster said:

Not really different from what the Canucks do.  Vancouver to LA is like a 3 hour flight.  

With a lot of Utica's travel being by bus, maybe it's more relaxing to sit in a plane.  With more road trips, it will (hopefully) lead to more combined home games too.  

 

But regardless, having the team in Abbotsford, at the PNE, or another GVRD city would allow players to focus on developing rather than having the team juggling with winning.  Preferably both of course, but I think most Canucks fans wouldn't care as much for losing if the prospects are playing well and developing.  

The last thing I want the Canucks to have is a situation similar to with the Chicago Wolves and how they were more concerned by competitiveness rather than prospect development.  

I agree.  I have had enough of years where our prospects went east for their progress to end. The best we had for developing prospects was in Winnipeg - Edler, Bieksa, Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, Raymond, Schneider, Tanev, Connauton, Bourdon, Grabner, and Rypien come to mind.