Nils Hoglander | #21 | LW

[Junkyard Dog]

8 hours ago, Googlie said:

AHL closed the 19/20 season,  not just a pause.  If and when it reopens will be in the fall/ winter for the 2020/21 season   My thought was that we might bring Hogz over just to soak up the NHL atmosphere, practice with the team, not necessarily to play a game, although he would be eligible for the taxi squad, no?

A bit of the Mac treatment? I am fine with giving him a little taste of what to expect. He shouldn't be a regular till Gaud/Jake round out their games. Could take another year or two which is okay, Hog should probably spend a little bit of time in the AHL.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Lazurus]

13 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

But he could have been and might be eligible for the playoffs.

[Bruce Boudreau]

On 5/28/2020 at 7:19 PM, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

Hoglander would be quite the wild card to add to a play in series with NHLers being rusty.

 

This would be a great time for him to get some experience for next year. Meet with the trainers and staff etc put him on a plan to be NHL ready in a few short months.

[Fred65]

16 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

Hoglander would be quite the wild card to add to a play in series with NHLers being rusty.

 

This would be a great time for him to get some experience for next year. Meet with the trainers and staff etc put him on a plan to be NHL ready in a few short months.

First he has to sit in isolation in a hotel on his own for 2 weeks. Actually you wonder if holding camp else ware might be the best move keeping in mind the team has so many needing isolation

[I.Am.Ironman]

One would think that we could just test all the international players and skip the whole isolation bit... Or aqua rents a mansion somewhere with a gym and they all isolate and train together

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Ray_Cathode]

Perhaps injecting a little realism here would be a good thing, because having unreasonable expectations of a player can harm their careers. A lot of CDC had great expectations of Gaudette, but fortunately the Canucks were more realistic and did not burden him with unrealistic expectations - not every player is Boeser, Hughes, or Pettersson that impress from day one, and when they are not they are not failures - Gaudette has shown great growth in his game and could still become a very, very valuable player. I’m not as sure as some people that Hoglander is ready to make the Canucks. Is he even twenty yet? Although he had some wonderful offensive forays, his results did not reflect a consistently effective player and were only marginally improved over his play in his prior year. Until he is strongly effective in a lesser league than the NHL, I don’t think he’s ready. Now, some players are more effective on the smaller ice, but I don’t see how that helps a player of Hoglander’s stature - willing as he is to engage. Another season in Sweden, or in the AHL would be very good for him.

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Perhaps injecting a little realism here would be a good thing, because having unreasonable expectations of a player can harm their careers. A lot of CDC had great expectations of Gaudette, but fortunately the Canucks were more realistic and did not burden him with unrealistic expectations - not every player is Boeser, Hughes, or Pettersson that impress from day one, and when they are not they are not failures - Gaudette has shown great growth in his game and could still become a very, very valuable player. I’m not as sure as some people that Hoglander is ready to make the Canucks. Is he even twenty yet? Although he had some wonderful offensive forays, his results did not reflect a consistently effective player and were only marginally improved over his play in his prior year. Until he is strongly effective in a lesser league than the NHL, I don’t think he’s ready. Now, some players are more effective on the smaller ice, but I don’t see how that helps a player of Hoglander’s stature - willing as he is to engage. Another season in Sweden, or in the AHL would be very good for him.

Are there that many people really expecting him to play on the Canucks next season?

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Perhaps injecting a little realism here would be a good thing, because having unreasonable expectations of a player can harm their careers. A lot of CDC had great expectations of Gaudette, but fortunately the Canucks were more realistic and did not burden him with unrealistic expectations - not every player is Boeser, Hughes, or Pettersson that impress from day one, and when they are not they are not failures - Gaudette has shown great growth in his game and could still become a very, very valuable player. I’m not as sure as some people that Hoglander is ready to make the Canucks. Is he even twenty yet? Although he had some wonderful offensive forays, his results did not reflect a consistently effective player and were only marginally improved over his play in his prior year. Until he is strongly effective in a lesser league than the NHL, I don’t think he’s ready. Now, some players are more effective on the smaller ice, but I don’t see how that helps a player of Hoglander’s stature - willing as he is to engage. Another season in Sweden, or in the AHL would be very good for him.

Tell that to someone like Brendan Gallagher.

 

I get your point though. We have a roster crunch on wing at the moment and I don't think many are actually expecting him to crack the team out of camp. Even if he does, he probably will have to spend some time in the AHL until we can make room for him (through trade or an injury) like how we did with Stecher, then it's up to him to keep his spot.

[Ray_Cathode]

On 6/9/2020 at 2:20 PM, theo5789 said:

Tell that to someone like Brendan Gallagher.

 

I get your point though. We have a roster crunch on wing at the moment and I don't think many are actually expecting him to crack the team out of camp. Even if he does, he probably will have to spend some time in the AHL until we can make room for him (through trade or an injury) like how we did with Stecher, then it's up to him to keep his spot.

But how effective could Gallagher have been on the larger ice? And yes, I do get your point, there are (or have been) players like Fleury, Gallagher, and Marchand. But mostly my point is that other than a few forays he hasn’t shown a lot in Sweden yet - against men - not like he stood out at the world junior.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Ray_Cathode said:

But how effective could Gallagher have been on the larger ice? And yes, I do get your point, there are (or have been) players like Fleury, Gallagher, and Marchand. But mostly my point is that other than a few forays he hasn’t shown a lot in Sweden yet - against men - not like he stood out at the world junior.

Well like you said, he's not ready now and I would agree with that, but he seems to have the battle and willingness to play above his weight which for his size will be a big attribute towards him getting to the NHL sooner than later. My point was his stature alone isn't what's going to hold him back from making the show, but he will have to take his game to another level of he expects to stick in the NHL.

 

Let's keep in mind that the names mentioned were all still in junior at the same age as Hoglander while this is Nils 2nd season in a men's league (even if it's around or below AHL level) where he only turned 19 in December. Define stood out in world juniors because he had 11 points in 7 games. He did get ejected in a crucial time for Sweden which is something he has to harness, but that also demonstrated the side that isn't going to shy away from things because of his size.

 

Still I do temper my expectations on his immediate impact, but there is reason for optimism.

[Bissurnette]

4 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Well like you said, he's not ready now and I would agree with that, but he seems to have the battle and willingness to play above his weight which for his size will be a big attribute towards him getting to the NHL sooner than later. My point was his stature alone isn't what's going to hold him back from making the show, but he will have to take his game to another level of he expects to stick in the NHL.

 

Let's keep in mind that the names mentioned were all still in junior at the same age as Hoglander while this is Nils 2nd season in a men's league (even if it's around or below AHL level) where he only turned 19 in December. Define stood out in world juniors because he had 11 points in 7 games. He did get ejected in a crucial time for Sweden which is something he has to harness, but that also demonstrated the side that isn't going to shy away from things because of his size.

 

Still I do temper my expectations on his immediate impact, but there is reason for optimism.

I agree with most of your post except the bolded part. He's fine. He doesn't need to harness anything. I want him to keep playing on the edge and it's fine if he crosses it every now and again. Marchand isn't an effective player just purely based on his skill. We don't need a team of neutered goody two-shoes, we need a team with bite and physicality and as a result they will cross some lines every now and again and that's ok. It's not the end of the world if they take penalties/suspensions every now and again.

 

EDIT: In the interest of honesty, I can't remember what he did in the WJC to get him booted out of the game for Sweden, nor do I really care. As long as he didn't swing his stick at someone's head, I'm fine with it.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Vanuckles

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

I agree with most of your post except the bolded part. He's fine. He doesn't need to harness anything. I want him to keep playing on the edge and it's fine if he crosses it every now and again. Marchand isn't an effective player just purely based on his skill. We don't need a team of neutered goody two-shoes, we need a team with bite and physicality and as a result they will cross some lines every now and again and that's ok. It's not the end of the world if they take penalties suspensions every now and again.

[theo5789]

20 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

I agree with most of your post except the bolded part. He's fine. He doesn't need to harness anything. I want him to keep playing on the edge and it's fine if he crosses it every now and again. Marchand isn't an effective player just purely based on his skill. We don't need a team of neutered goody two-shoes, we need a team with bite and physicality and as a result they will cross some lines every now and again and that's ok. It's not the end of the world if they take penalties/suspensions every now and again.

 

EDIT: In the interest of honesty, I can't remember what he did in the WJC to get him booted out of the game for Sweden, nor do I really care. As long as he didn't swing his stick at someone's head, I'm fine with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that he takes it out of his game. By harness, I mean at least knowing when to not cross that line because you're more important on the ice than off of it. Sweden was in a prime position to potentially win the WJC, but he took himself out and he was part of a dominant line on the team.

 

If you do care to see:

 

 

If a guy was charging at him, then I get it. But Denisenko didn't look to be doing so. He could've easily shoved him down rather than put his elbow up (and it had to be way up for his height). I'm fine with a bit of nasty, but like I said, once he was out, they were much easier of a team to neutralize. If it was the regular season, then it would be more of a statement to not mess with him which I would be much more okay with.

[Bissurnette]

3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that he takes it out of his game. By harness, I mean at least knowing when to not cross that line because you're more important on the ice than off of it. Sweden was in a prime position to potentially win the WJC, but he took himself out and he was part of a dominant line on the team.

 

If you do care to see:

 

 

If a guy was charging at him, then I get it. But Denisenko didn't look to be doing so. He could've easily shoved him down rather than put his elbow up (and it had to be way up for his height). I'm fine with a bit of nasty, but like I said, once he was out, they were much easier of a team to neutralize. If it was the regular season, then it would be more of a statement to not mess with him which I would be much more okay with.

Yeah that's fair, can't disagree with that when it's an elimination game, but outside of that I'm fine with some nastiness and physicality.

[Fred65]

22 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

Yeah that's fair, can't disagree with that when it's an elimination game, but outside of that I'm fine with some nastiness and physicality.

Well you wonder if the scenario was Hoglander taking out Marchaund in a Vcr Boston match up if the sentiments would be the same. But it was a crucial game for Sweden for sure. I'm thinking the Swedish coach would be upset

[theo5789]

6 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Well you wonder if the scenario was Hoglander taking out Marchaund in a Vcr Boston match up if the sentiments would be the same. But it was a crucial game for Sweden for sure. I'm thinking the Swedish coach would be upset

As I said, in a regular season game, to send a message, then fine. If it's the playoffs, if it gets him ejected, then you're hurting your own team in a crucial time. Denisenko returned in that game and with fire in his belly and now they were out one of their top players in the tournament over an unnecessary play.

 

If Hoglander didn't feel sick to his stomach not being out there to help his teammates try to win, then I would be questioning Hoglander's team mentality. I would hope Hoglander is more upset at himself than even the team or his coaches.

 

 

[Bissurnette]

16 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

Well you wonder if the scenario was Hoglander taking out Marchaund in a Vcr Boston match up if the sentiments would be the same. But it was a crucial game for Sweden for sure. I'm thinking the Swedish coach would be upset

It will all be situational of course, but to me it would have to be pretty extreme circumstances (like in an elimination game) for me to actually be upset at one of our players for crossing a line. Even then, it'll depend. That's just me personally though... All I know is, clean hockey doesn't win in the playoffs.

[Ray_Cathode]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:14 AM, theo5789 said:

Well like you said, he's not ready now and I would agree with that, but he seems to have the battle and willingness to play above his weight which for his size will be a big attribute towards him getting to the NHL sooner than later. My point was his stature alone isn't what's going to hold him back from making the show, but he will have to take his game to another level of he expects to stick in the NHL.

 

Let's keep in mind that the names mentioned were all still in junior at the same age as Hoglander while this is Nils 2nd season in a men's league (even if it's around or below AHL level) where he only turned 19 in December. Define stood out in world juniors because he had 11 points in 7 games. He did get ejected in a crucial time for Sweden which is something he has to harness, but that also demonstrated the side that isn't going to shy away from things because of his size.

 

Still I do temper my expectations on his immediate impact, but there is reason for optimism.

Oh, I’m thrilled with this pick, I think it is an unbelievable steal. But with the robust game that I expect this kid to play, I want him to have the best chance possible to succeed, Marchand and Gallagher both made the league as 20 year olds, Hoglander is 19, I think you agree that another year In Sweden would be great for this kid. The way this kid trains he will be faster, stronger, more ready to compete in the best league in the world.