J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W

[Baggins]

On 8/25/2019 at 10:11 AM, Pete M said:

Long read for comparing first rounders from 17 OA to 30 OA from 2003 to 2015 (13 years) to JT Miller, who was drafted in 2011 (15 OA)...I've include his stats for 2011 year.

As you can see...it's not a guarantee that a 1st round pick will turn-out; however, there are good players taken between 17 to 30 OA...but you still have to compare the good players to JT Miller...

...because it's not a guarantee and because JT Miller is a 15 OA pick with good stats, I believe JB did well in the trade...however, we still need to compare to the player Tampa picks with Vancouver's 1st round pick to determine how good this trade will be. Currently, its a good trade, but it could end up being a great trade. Also, notice who Vancouver picked between this range...not a very good drafting record to say the least for picking 1st rounders.

People tend to worry too much about "win/lose" with a trade. As long as Miller performs as he has it's a win for us as he's helping now and for the next four years. Tampa may wait two years to get the pick, another two years for that pick to even play, and possibly two more for the player to be effective. The real rub is not knowing who we would have picked. If Tampa picks a dud then it's "we wouldn't have taken him" if it's a star then it's "look what we gave up". All that really matters in this trade is that Miller performs as expected.

 

So really who Tampa selects is irrelevant. If Tampa gets a star and Miller performs it's a win/win. If Tampa drafts a bust and Miller doesn't perform it's a lose/lose. If only one side gets what they hoped it's a win/lose. To make my point people say we lost the trade Ballard + crap for a 1st, Grabner and Bernier. That makes it sound like Florida won the trade but it was a lose/lose. The 1st was a bust, Grabner was lost to waivers, and Bernier was a cap dump in the deal. It was lose/lose because niether side got what was hoped for.

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, Baggins said:

People tend to worry too much about "win/lose" with a trade. As long as Miller performs as he has it's a win for us as he's helping now and for the next four years. Tampa may wait two years to get the pick, another two years for that pick to even play, and possibly two more for the player to be effective. The real rub is not knowing who we would have picked. If Tampa picks a dud then it's "we wouldn't have taken him" if it's a star then it's "look what we gave up". All that really matters in this trade is that Miller performs as expected.

 

So really who Tampa selects is irrelevant. If Tampa gets a star and Miller performs it's a win/win. If Tampa drafts a bust and Miller doesn't perform it's a lose/lose. If only one side gets what they hoped it's a win/lose. To make my point people say we lost the trade Ballard + crap for a 1st, Grabner and Bernier. That makes it sound like Florida won the trade but it was a lose/lose. The 1st was a bust, Grabner was lost to waivers, and Bernier was a cap dump in the deal. It was lose/lose because niether side got what was hoped for.

Just FYI:

I do remember many bashing GMMG for giving the 1st and not using it to pick whatever player that was available around that time.  

I believe all those players are also busts.

 

Unfortunately though, Bernier was the type of player the Canucks needed against Boston.  He did play well when the game slowed down.  

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Just FYI:

I do remember many bashing GMMG for giving the 1st and not using it to pick whatever player that was available around that time.  

I believe all those players are also busts.

 

Unfortunately though, Bernier was the type of player the Canucks needed against Boston.  He did play well when the game slowed down.  

Seems to me we had plenty of Bernier in our bottom six for considerably less money. If he actually provided offense he may have been worth it. But for a contender cap space is too important.

[Lancaster]

12 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Seems to me we had plenty of Bernier in our bottom six for considerably less money. If he actually provided offense he may have been worth it. But for a contender cap space is too important.

Not really.... Bolduc, Glass, Oreskovich weren't really truculent players.  Just the first 2 played the role to stay in the NHL.  Bernier did have better hands than them.  

Bernier did play fairly decent in the series against the Blues and the one against the LA Kings.  Somehow the Raymond-Wellwood-Bernier line clicked.  When the game got much tighter, he was more noticeable.  Unfortunately, he was ineffective against Chicago, when he admitted he was unable to forecheck as they had a very mobile D.  He was also a decent player for the NJD during their finals (just he unfortunately took a very bad major penalty in the deciding game).

[Baggins]

21 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Not really.... Bolduc, Glass, Oreskovich weren't really truculent players.  Just the first 2 played the role to stay in the NHL.  Bernier did have better hands than them.  

Bernier did play fairly decent in the series against the Blues and the one against the LA Kings.  Somehow the Raymond-Wellwood-Bernier line clicked.  When the game got much tighter, he was more noticeable.  Unfortunately, he was ineffective against Chicago, when he admitted he was unable to forecheck as they had a very mobile D.  He was also a decent player for the NJD during their finals (just he unfortunately took a very bad major penalty in the deciding game).

Bernier had 3 fights in his two seasons here, while Glass had 25 in his two. According to hockey fights Bernier didn't have a playoff fight in his career, including junior and the AHL.

[Nucker 67]

^^^^

 

Miller comparable - Mason Raymond?

 

 

[messier's_elbow]

I really hope he does well here, cause if not I don't think ill be able to take the whining. 

[Glug Datt]

On 9/9/2019 at 11:45 AM, Baggins said:

People tend to worry too much about "win/lose" with a trade. As long as Miller performs as he has it's a win for us as he's helping now and for the next four years. Tampa may wait two years to get the pick, another two years for that pick to even play, and possibly two more for the player to be effective. The real rub is not knowing who we would have picked. If Tampa picks a dud then it's "we wouldn't have taken him" if it's a star then it's "look what we gave up". All that really matters in this trade is that Miller performs as expected.

 

So really who Tampa selects is irrelevant. If Tampa gets a star and Miller performs it's a win/win. If Tampa drafts a bust and Miller doesn't perform it's a lose/lose. If only one side gets what they hoped it's a win/lose. To make my point people say we lost the trade Ballard + crap for a 1st, Grabner and Bernier. That makes it sound like Florida won the trade but it was a lose/lose. The 1st was a bust, Grabner was lost to waivers, and Bernier was a cap dump in the deal. It was lose/lose because niether side got what was hoped for.

along these same lines, many people seem to expect that not only do we need to win every transaction, but the other team needs to lose. this isn't realistic. normally you get what you pay for. 

 

every other GM looks at each transaction the same way we do, except with way more info than we have. and of course they all want something for nothing, and to win while others lose, but obviously it can't happen... maybe once in a while. 

 

as long as we win, the other team can win too for all I care. who knows, might even make that GM more likely to deal kindly with JB next time. 

 

as noted, if Miller performs to his potential, this deal is a win, and therefore the price is fair. 

[Putgolzin]

10 minutes ago, Glug Datt said:

along these same lines, many people seem to expect that not only do we need to win every transaction, but the other team needs to lose. this isn't realistic. normally you get what you pay for. 

 

every other GM looks at each transaction the same way we do, except with way more info than we have. and of course they all want something for nothing, and to win while others lose, but obviously it can't happen... maybe once in a while. 

 

as long as we win, the other team can win too for all I care. who knows, might even make that GM more likely to deal kindly with JB next time. 

 

as noted, if Miller performs to his potential, this deal is a win, and therefore the price is fair. 

I always thought the “don’t trade within your division, the traded player will come up huge against us” was a silly thought.

 

Thats only a concern if you’re a crap GM and plan on losing the trade.

If you’re somewhat competent the player coming over should logically come up just as big against his former team

 

 

 

[thrago]

Miller looked damn good in his first game Horvat must be thrilled.

[-AJ-]

I really, really, liked Miller in his game tonight. Very excited to see him continue. It's obvious that he's not another run of the mill middle six forward--he's a bonafide top six guy.

[Ray_Cathode]

On 8/25/2019 at 11:27 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

good work, puts the deal in perspective. Its also a hedged bet. If we miss the playoffs again this year, we keep the pick anyway. If the team is looking at lotto picks 2 drafts from now then the wheels have come off the rebuild and the team has bigger problems.

 

It was pretty obvious that the top 6 needed more size and grit and guys that can score. For Benning to get both Miller and Ferland for the cost of a conditional 1st and just free agency cash is impressive, and why he got the extension imo. 

 

 

 

Yep, Miller could help turn Bo into a 35 goal 75 point guy. And if Pearson continues where he left off last year this could be a very interesting line.

[TheRussianRocket1994]

https://rogers.janrainsso.com/static/server.html?origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sportsnet.ca%2Fhockey%2Fnhl%2Fj-t-miller-embracing-journey-west-potential-coming-canucks%2F

 

VANCOUVER — They arrived two-by-two: two babies, two dogs, two cars. J.T. Millercould have used an ark. Might have come in handy, too, when the winter rains arrive on the West Coast.

“It’s been an absolutely crazy couple of months,” Miller said Thursday. “The cars and the dogs got shipped out, and we flew with the girls. They’re four months (old) and a year-and-a-half. I wouldn’t be able to do this without my wife and family. They’ve been super helpful and they’re just trying to make this transition easier for me.”

 

Great westerly moves across the North American continent have always had an epic quality to them. It’s the same way in the National Hockey League, where many players spend their entire careers in one conference. Not every player who traverses the logistical gulf that separates the Eastern Conference and far-flung Western side of the league can adapt as Miller is trying to do.

The Vancouver Canucksacquired him from the Tampa Bay Lightning in June, surrendering first- and third-round picks to get the power forward who has averaged 20 goals and 51 points over the last four seasons.

The 26-year-old has spent his life in the East, where he grew up on the Ohio-Pennsylvania border near Pittsburgh and played nearly six seasons for the New York Rangers before joining the Lightning 1 1/2 years ago.

The West is a new world to him. So are the Canucks, a team rebuilt around youth that finished 47 points behind the Lightning last season.

“I’m sure there’s a learning process here, especially with the western schedule,” Miller said before the Canucks flew to Edmonton for a pre-season game Thursday night against the Oilers. “I hear about how taxing it is over the course of an 82-game season.

“At first, you’re kind of in shock — you’re moving 2,500 miles from home. My wife and I are very home-oriented people. But we’ve had a few months to go over this and get ready for this. And now I’m so excited for this opportunity. Seeing what the Canucks gave up to get me means a lot. I want to make sure I start off on the right foot.”

 

For the record, Miller’s wife is Natalie, their daughters are Scotlyn and Scarlett, the dogs are labs — one yellow, one red — and J.T. has yet to encounter gridlock trying to commute to Rogers Arena across the Lions Gate Bridge.

Miller’s dad and stepmom flew out to help with the move, and Canucks centre Bo Horvat is helping with the transition on the ice.

 

Horvat and Miller have been linemates since training camp opened in Victoria last week.

“We’re trying to learn each other’s tendencies,” Miller said. “It’s harder in the offensive zone. Defensive zone, it’s very similar around the league. I was under the impression camp was going to be really hard, and it was. Terminology is different here, the drills are different, (and) obviously I’m playing with completely new people. I’m just trying to pick up things as quickly as possible.”

For the Canucks to make the playoffs this season, general manager Jim Benning needs to have hit on his acquisitions of Miller and another big winger, Micheal Ferland, who was signed as a free agent and has been skating with top centre Elias Pettersson.

It’s hard for the Canucks to win the Miller trade without making the playoffs. The 2020 first-round pick that Benning surrendered is lottery-protected for one year.

Miller’s goal production last season dropped to 13 from 23, and his goals-per-game were the lowest since his sophomore NHL season in 2013-14. But his average ice time was also down 3 1/2 minutes from the previous year on a record-breaking Lightning team.

His 1.44 shots per game were the fewest in Miller’s career. Coupled with a 12-per-cent shooting percentage that was 4.5 points below his scoring rate over the previous three years, it was easy to see how the 220-pound power forward managed only 13 goals.

It’s equally easy to envision that goal total potentially doubling this season if Miller plays with Horvat or Pettersson and is part of an improved power play.

“I’ve got to get my shot volume up because I think I have a shot that can beat goaltenders,” Miller said. “I think I can score more goals. But I don’t want to put more pressure on myself to score. I think I’m capable — the goals will come.”

 

Miller brings more to the Canucks than scoring potential.

“He’s a player you notice when you play against him,” Canucks veteran Jay Beagle, who spent 10 seasons back east with the Washington Capitals, said of his new teammate. “He has skill and a great shot, and sees the game so well. But his grit, that’s the thing. For me, it’s always easy to play against players who have skill but don’t want to go into hard areas. He’s a guy you don’t want to go into hard areas with. I thought it was a great trade.”

There’s lots of time to find out. Part of Miller’s allure was cost certainty: a contract that runs for four more seasons at $5.25 million.

“Everybody wants big minutes with great opportunity,” he said. “But I think as professionals, we understand there are roles to fill. Once you’re committed to that role, you have to be a good teammate and go with it — whether it’s first line, fourth line, penalty kill, power play. Whatever it is, you’ve got to bring it to the table because that’s what makes teams.

“I understand the potential this team has. From the veteran core to the young talent, we have some really good players. You don’t want to put too much pressure on how a team will shake out, but I do think we have a good chance to be a really good hockey team.”

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by IRR

[RakuRaku]

Really?? I gotta pay $30 to get JT's autograph?? and the webpage didn't mention charities.. so I'm assuming proceeds will be split between the store owner and possibly JT himself.. "JT has the right to refuse to sign any itme."  - Oh great!! So, there's a chance I might be going in having paid $30 just to get a sniff literally!

 

I'd rather wait 2 hours to see Robbie Alomar and other Blue Jays for free autographs!!

 

[kenhodgejr]

I wonder if JT Miller is the first NHL hockey player from Palestine? 

[Mrwipeout]

I had big expectations on Miller and he definetly has delivered. Hes been great all preseason and inded the best player of the night. Thank to his addition Bo might get a career year. Other teams will have to cover 2 lines and petey is bound to get the heaviest attention of those lines. I expect 60+ points from miller. 

[Mrwipeout]

4 points against the Kings....this guy will have the most points of the team at the end of the season if he keeps playing this good.....

[DownUndaCanuck]

Smart game by Miller tonight, relatively safe which is what Pettersson and Boeser need. While the latter two play primarily a puck possession and passing game, Miller was happy to chip and chase which seems counter-intuitive but he was very good at it against the Kings and dump ins directly lead to a couple of goals.

 

I think this will really keep defences on their toes because they won't know what to expect from this line.

 

Considering the 1st round pick we gave up is top-15 protected, this is a late 1st round pick for a stud 60-80 point player, worth it every time.

[aGENT]

*Waits patiently for someone to bump some gems from the Miller trade thread*

 

[Tre Mac]

4 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Smart game by Miller tonight, relatively safe which is what Pettersson and Boeser need. While the latter two play primarily a puck possession and passing game, Miller was happy to chip and chase which seems counter-intuitive but he was very good at it against the Kings and dump ins directly lead to a couple of goals.

 

I think this will really keep defences on their toes because they won't know what to expect from this line.

 

Considering the 1st round pick we gave up is top-15 protected, this is a late 1st round pick for a stud 60-80 point player, worth it every time.

Quote

A draft devotee, Benning sent to the Lightning a third-round pick on Saturday plus a conditional first-round pick in one of the next two years. If the Canucks miss the playoffs in 2020, during their 50th anniversary in the NHL, the first-rounder is moved to 2021.

If the Canucks miss the playoffs both years, the trade may not look very good. But Benning won’t have to worry about optics because he probably won’t still be GM unless Vancouver makes it back into the Stanley Cup tournament.

 

That's not what I remember, it's a non protected pick but the Canucks can conditionally decide what year 2020 or 2021, meaning if they decide to give up the 2021 pick and they miss the playoffs that could be a lotto pick.  CDC get's too high and low at times, yes Miller has been great for the first three games but there is a 'possible' serious downside to this trade, let's not pretend that doesn't exist.