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J.T. Miller | #9 | C/W

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Grape said:

Well I think you're just being immature now with these responses lol

 

Let's say we had the first overall pick in the 2018 draft, and picked Quinn Hughes. I would've loved the pick due to my personal allegiance and my strong belief that Hughes was a top 2 player in the draft. However, if people were to make a point today, that we could've perhaps traded back a few spots and then picked Hughes, I wouldn't say they're wrong either, even though I was right in my unpopular original opinion

Thanks for the back up last night. I started to question my memory of the events and started a Reddit post attempting to gain clarity since there was no discussion happening around here. Thought maybe I was misremembering the event since I was at work when the trade happened and my initial reaction was shock that we traded a first round pick on draft day after finishing bottom 5.

 

 

 

So far can't find anyone else that doesn't agree that we we did indeed pay the current market price for Miller at the time.

Edited by shayster007

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20 hours ago, shayster007 said:

So far can't find anyone else that doesn't agree that we we did indeed pay the current market price for Miller at the time.

 

On 3/4/2020 at 9:25 PM, aGENT said:

Yes. It was.

I said as much at the time of the trade.

 

Many people holding the same poor opinion doesn't make them correct.

 

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

 

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

And just because your stubborn doesn't make you right. I think your wrong, as does the general consensus. Have a good day bud, I like you as a poster but you are acting beyond ridiculous.

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40 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

 

And just because your stubborn doesn't make you right. I think your wrong, as does the general consensus. Have a good day bud, I like you as a poster but you are acting beyond ridiculous.

Nope. Reality makes me right :lol:

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3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nope. Reality makes me right :lol:

If you can provide me with one expert, a person who covers hockey for a living, who at the time of the JT Miller trade declared it as "a steal" or "below market price" we can end this conversation once for and for all.

 

I tried to do some research to see if I could, but I would like to know why you are so sure of yourself with your evaluation.

 

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-trade-for-j-t-miller-from-the-tampa-bay-lightning-1.23864437

"The Canucks didn’t get a discount for providing that cap relief, however, as a first and a third seems a significant price for Miller. Perhaps that’s the price you pay to acquire a top-six winger and Miller could well be worth it for years to come."

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/lightning-mcdonagh-miller-trade-revisit/

 

"At the draft, Miller was sent to the Vancouver Canucks, returning a 2020 first-round selection and a 2019 third-rounder. All in all, this was a fantastic move by both parties, as the Lightning cleared needed cap space while getting a premium return while the Canucks got a great player who has helped the franchise push for a 2020 playoff berth."

 

 

So here it is aGent. If you can provide me with at least a single expert who believed at the time the price we payed was under market value for JT Miller, I will at least admit that there could be a second evaluation augment. With my very limited research skills where I could find the actual value of the trade addressed, the general consensus at the time across media, and fans, and the current fan base when looking back at the trade, think we payed the market value ( I agree with) or even a premium for the player. I just want one valid argument to say other wise that can convince me otherwise. Just a single person against all the opinions that agree with me.

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15 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

If you can provide me with one expert, a person who covers hockey for a living, who at the time of the JT Miller trade declared it as "a steal" or "below market price" we can end this conversation once for and for all.

 

I tried to do some research to see if I could, but I would like to know why you are so sure of yourself with your evaluation.

 

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-trade-for-j-t-miller-from-the-tampa-bay-lightning-1.23864437

"The Canucks didn’t get a discount for providing that cap relief, however, as a first and a third seems a significant price for Miller. Perhaps that’s the price you pay to acquire a top-six winger and Miller could well be worth it for years to come."

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/lightning-mcdonagh-miller-trade-revisit/

 

"At the draft, Miller was sent to the Vancouver Canucks, returning a 2020 first-round selection and a 2019 third-rounder. All in all, this was a fantastic move by both parties, as the Lightning cleared needed cap space while getting a premium return while the Canucks got a great player who has helped the franchise push for a 2020 playoff berth."

 

 

So here it is aGent. If you can provide me with at least a single expert who believed at the time the price we payed was under market value for JT Miller, I will at least admit that there could be a second evaluation augment. With my very limited research skills where I could find the actual value of the trade addressed, the general consensus at the time across media, and fans, and the current fan base when looking back at the trade, think we payed the market value ( I agree with) or even a premium for the player. I just want one valid argument to say other wise that can convince me otherwise. Just a single person against all the opinions that agree with me.

I think you’re getting a silly meme back. 

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3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think you’re getting a silly meme back. 

I don't think so, and I sincerely hope not. I would expect much more out of one of the highest posting members on the forum. We already have one silly high posting member around here, Alfy :P

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

If you can provide me with one expert, a person who covers hockey for a living, who at the time of the JT Miller trade declared it as "a steal" or "below market price" we can end this conversation once for and for all.

 

I tried to do some research to see if I could, but I would like to know why you are so sure of yourself with your evaluation.

 

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-trade-for-j-t-miller-from-the-tampa-bay-lightning-1.23864437

"The Canucks didn’t get a discount for providing that cap relief, however, as a first and a third seems a significant price for Miller. Perhaps that’s the price you pay to acquire a top-six winger and Miller could well be worth it for years to come."

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/lightning-mcdonagh-miller-trade-revisit/

 

"At the draft, Miller was sent to the Vancouver Canucks, returning a 2020 first-round selection and a 2019 third-rounder. All in all, this was a fantastic move by both parties, as the Lightning cleared needed cap space while getting a premium return while the Canucks got a great player who has helped the franchise push for a 2020 playoff berth."

 

 

So here it is aGent. If you can provide me with at least a single expert who believed at the time the price we payed was under market value for JT Miller, I will at least admit that there could be a second evaluation augment. With my very limited research skills where I could find the actual value of the trade addressed, the general consensus at the time across media, and fans, and the current fan base when looking back at the trade, think we payed the market value ( I agree with) or even a premium for the player. I just want one valid argument to say other wise that can convince me otherwise. Just a single person against all the opinions that agree with me.

Those 'experts' (pundits) opinions aren't worth a lot most of the time FWIW (most are less knowledgeable than a lot of fans and simply have press creds). But I do seem to recall there was a couple being very approving, who had some understanding of the quality of player we were getting and what they'd normally be traded for (more than we paid). Can't remember who exactly off the top of my head. There's probably a tweet or two if you want to dig through the trade thread. Or perhaps someone else remembers.

 

Most, particularly in our local garbage media, were laughingly not approving. Just further evidence to take most of their opinions with a large grain of salt. Particularly the usual suspects (I think JD Burke is still trying to claim it was a bad move :lol: ).

 

You want a 'valid argument' for his trade worth, look at what a player like Pageau got at the TDL as a potential rental (not a guy with term on a VERY good value contract...though they did re-sign him). Look at comparables. Consider how much you'd want back for Horvat if we were to trade him (probably our next closest comparable). I mean we have a bit of a cap crunch this summer, would you move Horvat at the discount rate we paid for Miller? A conditional, likely mid-late 1st some time in the next two years, a 3rd and a throwaway goalie? Come on...

 

Their valuation was wrong then and it's been subsequently proven wrong by the reality of Miller's play. That they were ignorant of his player value and/or the trade value to acquire a player like that is on them. I don't 'blame' you for listening to them, they are 'experts' after all :rolleyes:. But to continue to claim that we somehow 'overpaid' is patently false. THAT is on you. Whether almost everyone else agreed with you that the world was flat at the time, doesn't particularly matter ;)

 

 

 

 

Edited by aGENT

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5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Those 'experts' (pundits) opinions aren't worth a lot most of the time FWIW (most are less knowledgeable than a lot of fans and simply have press creds). But I do seem to recall there was a couple being very approving, who had some understanding of the quality of player we were getting and what they'd normally be traded for (more than we paid). Can't remember who exactly off the top of my head. There's probably a tweet or two if you want to dig through the trade thread. Or perhaps someone else remembers.

 

Most, particularly in our local garbage media, were laughingly not approving. Just further evidence to take most of their opinions with a large grain of salt. Particularly the usual suspects (I think JD Burke is still trying to claim it was a bad move :lol: ).

 

You want a 'valid argument' for his trade worth, look at what a player like Pageau got at the TDL as a potential rental (not a guy with term on a VERY good value contract...though they did re-sign him). Look at comparables. Consider how much you'd want back for Horvat if we were to trade him (probably our next closest comparable). I mean we have a bit of a cap crunch this summer, would you move Horvat at the discount rate we paid for Miller? A conditional, likely mid-late 1st some time in the next two years, a 3rd and a throwaway goalie? Come on...

 

Their valuation was wrong then and it's been subsequently proven wrong by the reality of Miller's play. That they were ignorant of his player value and/or the trade value to acquire a player like that is on them. I don't 'blame' you for listening to them, they are 'experts' after all :rolleyes:. But to continue to claim that we somehow 'overpaid' is patently false. THAT is on you. Whether almost everyone else agreed with you that the world was flat at the time, doesn't particularly matter ;)

 

 

 

 

Ok, so you can't.

 

Thank you aGENT, this conversation has reached it's natural conclusion.

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1 minute ago, shayster007 said:

Ok, so you can't.

 

Thank you aGENT, this conversation has reached it's natural conclusion.

Sure. Earth's still not flat though ;)

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sure. Earth's still not flat though ;)

Sure it is, and it will keep on spinning itself on its y axis for as long as your stubborn and incorrect. Have a good day.

Edited by shayster007
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10 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Sure it is, and it will keep on spinning itself on its y axis for as long as your stubborn and incorrect. Have a good day.

Where have I been incorrect exactly...?

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On 3/4/2020 at 9:28 PM, aGENT said:

You guys are the ones who keep posting how he was traded for 'fair market blah, blah'. I'm correcting you, not seeking validation.

Exactly this.  They went from raging and hating on the "overpayment" to realizing they were wrong, but still can't admit how wrong so they now try the halfway house of "well, it was fair market value I guess."  Big lesson learned regarding making declarations on players one has no idea about.

 

It was a good trade then and in hindsight has become an excellent trade.  Quit trying to salvage pride and just admit it.  At least you'll be ahead of JD Burke.

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Not only became our leading scorer and first-line play driver, but has also been a major factor in the making Jake into an impact player.  Starting to look like we effectively got two top-six players out of the trade.  The gift that keeps on giving.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Gaudette Celly said:

Exactly this.  They went from raging and hating on the "overpayment" to realizing they were wrong, but still can't admit how wrong so they now try the halfway house of "well, it was fair market value I guess."  Big lesson learned regarding making declarations on players one has no idea about.

 

It was a good trade then and in hindsight has become an excellent trade.  Quit trying to salvage pride and just admit it.  At least you'll be ahead of JD Burke.

Yup. I'm sorry but I'm just not going to let people get away with:

 

"The world was flat at the time of the trade. Almost everyone agreed it was flat. It only subsequently became round later this season."

 

Own it and quit letting your ego trick you that world has been changing shape on you. The mental gymnastics, I tell you...:lol: And worst of all, quit posting it here as fact that the world changed shape. It either was flat and remains so, or it was actually round all along.

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3 hours ago, shayster007 said:

If you can provide me with one expert, a person who covers hockey for a living, who at the time of the JT Miller trade declared it as "a steal" or "below market price" we can end this conversation once for and for all.

 

I tried to do some research to see if I could, but I would like to know why you are so sure of yourself with your evaluation.

 

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/canucks-trade-for-j-t-miller-from-the-tampa-bay-lightning-1.23864437

"The Canucks didn’t get a discount for providing that cap relief, however, as a first and a third seems a significant price for Miller. Perhaps that’s the price you pay to acquire a top-six winger and Miller could well be worth it for years to come."

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/lightning-mcdonagh-miller-trade-revisit/

 

"At the draft, Miller was sent to the Vancouver Canucks, returning a 2020 first-round selection and a 2019 third-rounder. All in all, this was a fantastic move by both parties, as the Lightning cleared needed cap space while getting a premium return while the Canucks got a great player who has helped the franchise push for a 2020 playoff berth."

 

 

So here it is aGent. If you can provide me with at least a single expert who believed at the time the price we payed was under market value for JT Miller, I will at least admit that there could be a second evaluation augment. With my very limited research skills where I could find the actual value of the trade addressed, the general consensus at the time across media, and fans, and the current fan base when looking back at the trade, think we payed the market value ( I agree with) or even a premium for the player. I just want one valid argument to say other wise that can convince me otherwise. Just a single person against all the opinions that agree with me.

Pretty sure Burke liked the trade.  But who cares, it was a good trade...end of story.  

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19 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Pretty sure Burke liked the trade.  But who cares, it was a good trade...end of story.  

Great trade. And that's good to know! I actually really like Burke and respect his opinion a lot. He's a crazy old man, I love crazy old men, my pops a crazy old man.

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Posted (edited)

Baffled by the last couple of pages.  Does anyone think it wasn't a worthwhile trade now?  No?  So what's the problem here?  If GMJB played real hardball the third could've been a fourth?  Maybe we toss in a mid-level prospect like Brisebois instead of a pick?  Because the trade deadline has shown that you're not getting a top six power forward in their prime, on a good contract, without dealing out a first or a blue chip prospect.  So the only real variable is that third rounder.  When TSN updated its draft pick analysis in 2018, picks in the #63 - #72 range (Canucks gave up #71) had a 8.8% chance of becoming a top 6 F, top 4 D or #1 G.  Hardly the most valuable of assets.

Edited by GoldenAlien
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6 hours ago, aGENT said:

Those 'experts' (pundits) opinions aren't worth a lot most of the time FWIW (most are less knowledgeable than a lot of fans and simply have press creds). But I do seem to recall there was a couple being very approving, who had some understanding of the quality of player we were getting and what they'd normally be traded for (more than we paid). Can't remember who exactly off the top of my head. There's probably a tweet or two if you want to dig through the trade thread. Or perhaps someone else remembers.

 

Most, particularly in our local garbage media, were laughingly not approving. Just further evidence to take most of their opinions with a large grain of salt. Particularly the usual suspects (I think JD Burke is still trying to claim it was a bad move :lol: ).

 

You want a 'valid argument' for his trade worth, look at what a player like Pageau got at the TDL as a potential rental (not a guy with term on a VERY good value contract...though they did re-sign him). Look at comparables. Consider how much you'd want back for Horvat if we were to trade him (probably our next closest comparable). I mean we have a bit of a cap crunch this summer, would you move Horvat at the discount rate we paid for Miller? A conditional, likely mid-late 1st some time in the next two years, a 3rd and a throwaway goalie? Come on...

 

Their valuation was wrong then and it's been subsequently proven wrong by the reality of Miller's play. That they were ignorant of his player value and/or the trade value to acquire a player like that is on them. I don't 'blame' you for listening to them, they are 'experts' after all :rolleyes:. But to continue to claim that we somehow 'overpaid' is patently false. THAT is on you. Whether almost everyone else agreed with you that the world was flat at the time, doesn't particularly matter ;)

 

 

 

 

Who exactly are you talking about? I thought everyone thought it was a good trade other than a few cdc people.  Even JD Burke was for it!

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16 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

Who exactly are you talking about? I thought everyone thought it was a good trade other than a few cdc people.  Even JD Burke was for it!

No, he most decidedly wasn't.

 

Most of our local media  likewise, was doing their usual myopic, tabloid grade, sensationalistic shrieking as well.

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