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Clock Tower Prison

Grading the 2019 Draft

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A yr ago most everyone was pretty hung up about that LW side.

 

Baer .. concussions; Goldy ..uncertain project; Granny..small & slow. We were all being HF-razzed over how lousy Roussel would be, for his RFA cost. Wondering if Jake might work on his off-wing. Would loui continue being a cap-disaster? That position was Miiiighty bleak

 

10 mos later?

Leivo

Pearson

Miller

Roussel (start on IR maybe, but he looked great)

 

Nice that we're getting options, where there appeared so few.

 

This draft wknd? I'll give it a B+

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Would we have been better off if our first two picks were;

 

Soderstrom + Puistola?

Boldy + Korczak? 

Krebs + Korczak? 

 

I think Podkolzin + Hoglander are better! I grade this years draft an A

 

Podkolzin will be a team we win the cup with! He will bleed for his teammates and they will respect him for it. The guy is a warrior and a beast. He is also a sniper with the puck... As his game and body continue to develop in the KHL he will become a very dangerous player. Also he is a guy all the Russians will rally behind. 

 

Keeping with the theme of speed, skill, tenacity, high motor. we picked Nils Hoglander. I admit I didn't look at him much because he is smaller but I think he has a high upside. If he pans out as a top 6 NHLer then we hit a home run! 

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8 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

What are the terms of the conditional 1st? If the Canucks make the playoffs over the next 2 years TB gets the 1st? 

It's lottery protected next year. We miss the playoffs next year and it gets pushed to 2021 and they get it regardless of where we finish that season. This is why I don't mind the trade at all. The odds are it will be a bottom half 1st rounder and they may have to wait two years to get it. Not a bad deal for a top six forward with grit that can play all three positions.

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6 hours ago, Clock Tower Prison said:

Sorry that comment about D prospects was poorly worded on my part. When I look at the Canucks defence corps that played and will likely play in the NHL in these next 2 years, I see a team that could be on the bubble of making the playoffs and definitely not a cup contender. I'm fond of Edler but he's not a #1 defenceman. Tanev is great when he's healthy but he hasn't played over 55 games in the last 3 seasons. Hutton and Stetcher are a pretty solid second pairing. Hoping they can find another gear and one of them can hit the 30+ point mark this year. Hughes and Joulevi are great but untested in the NHL.

 

I'm also glad Rafferty, Teves, Eliot, Chatfield and Brisebois are in the system. But their potential in the NHL are still pretty much question marks. I consider having a Jake Bean or Travis Sanheim (of one or two years ago) in the system as depth. A guy who has excelled at the next level and you're confident can step into the NHL and make a splash. Possibly allow you to tinker with your roster. 

 

Woo still needs a year in junior and likely some time in the AHL, Rathbone another 1-3 years in the NCAA.  

 

I understand the concept of BPA and it's why I support Podkolzin at 10. That's why I said I was only slightly disappointed that Martin Hugo Has isn't a Canuck. 

 

If things do trend in that direction at least we have the assets to demand a king's ransom to do a proper rebuild. Hate to say it but just imagine the return that Pettersson, Boeser, Horvat, Demko, Joulevi, Hughes and Podkolzin could get. 

 

From what I've read the first round pick is only protected in 2020. If the Canucks fail to make the playoffs the pick is moved to 2021 without any protection. So we could very well be giving the Lightning a lottery pick in 2021. Even if the Canucks do make the playoffs that year they could be giving away pick #15-31. Kinda worrying considering that good players can still be found in that range. 

 

A JT Miller like trade should have happened after Hughes and Joulevi played at least a season in the NHL. 

Not if they pick a “Lind type “ according to another poster... ha ha.  Bad joke.  

 

It’s debatable for sure whether that pick was a smart one, I fired a phew quick salvos of disappointment on here somewhere showing my disappointment as have been preaching patience and more drafting and development required etc for quite some time.   Then I spent some time looking at it and the value of the trade, and it was definitely a good value for us, and for them as a cash strapped team too.   The reality is we just traded either next years first or the following one for a former 15th overall (which is where we could predict we will likely be around depending which year they pick), for a underused 6’1” 218lb bulldog in his prime for a minimum of four years at a good cap hit who’s capable of scoring 60plus points on the first or second line, 40-50 on the third with some decent line mates.  

 

If we are a lottery team next year then no worries.  If we are somehow a lottery team again the next year the pick will be close to 16, and those guys don’t usually play for two or three years minimum.  That means whomever we lose in this deal won’t play until Horvat is close to 30, possibly already gone, and half-way through the rest of the cores second deals.   Benning (or his successor) could flip JT Miller for a first as a rental to a contender or playoff team in three-four years if he’s going to be too rich for the next deal or we don’t need him or we just want another pick etc.   

 

There is no way we were going to add a top six guy without using picks or overpayment for an older UFA....between the two and the cap that will be required to fill in the defense I can definitely see why this move was made.  No team is built on drafting alone, this was a ballsy move ... my bet is he will become a fan favourite, and it’s possible we make the playoffs next year.   Needs to shed some chaf somehow next and improve our defense ..

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8 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

First of all welcome to the forum and for making a thoughtful contribution to the discussion. You made some interesting points that I wanted to address. 

 

In regards to Poldkolzin, he was clearly one of the best players remaining with maybe one of the most attractive set of skills and NHL tools in the entire draft. There’s belief out there that if he wasn’t signed for the two years he would be moving to Vancouver right away.  

  

According to some reports (if true) he was rated at 8 and one of only three players that Vancouver would have stayed pat at 10 for. If he or two other players were NOT available at 10, Vancouver wanted to move down to the mid first round to garner an extra pick.

 

Obviously when a guy like Poldkozin, with  crazy high ceiling falls to you there’s no other choice but to take him.

 

 

I have to say I wasn’t  shocked when i heard of the JT Miller trade. The Mrazek and 3rd round pick were not a big deal. And in my view neither is the conditional 1st. 

 

JT Miller is a very good player. From the Us national development team he was picked in the first round of the 2011 draft at number 15 by the rangers. He’s only 26, and signed 4 more years to a very attractive  contract. He’s a solid top 6 to add to round out our forming core players. 

 

He is in his prime and going to get a chance to play with either Petey or Bo. His point totals are projected to increase

 

More of a play maker it seems but that’s certainly one of the things our team lacks heavily. 

 

I think this deal is a great one and it signals to our young core that they are being supported in their efforts. That can be a powerful message to these young players. The fact that our players are still developing is exactly the reason why this is a great move.

 

I love this deal. I really hope the players get the message and come back better and more ready to go.

 

And finally I’d rate our picks  as a B+.

Main disappointment was that Brink was taken ahead of our pick and  Mathew Robertson was available but we didn’t take him. Overall a solid draft.

 

02567214-6791-4FC0-9C44-D201C031E421.thumb.jpeg.425488e9f3b452481c27ddbb631e51db.jpeg

That's an awesome picture. Thanks for sharing. 

 

And thank you for the welcome. I'm glad I joined. I'm extremely homesick so following the Canucks and hockey in general a little closer has been the best thing for that. I'm in Toronto and it's just so ... I miss the beach, mountains and believe it or not commuting on the sky train, I'll leave it at that. 

 

I think Podkolzin is a polarizing pick mainly because of our draft position. And the fact that the only thing it costed to move up was a second round pick. 

 

But if Tampa had taken the second and third round pick for Miller, I think the possibility of moving up and grabbing Zegras would have been forgotten. We'd all be hailing Benning and demanding the Aquilini's extend him on the draft floor. 

 

I'm still lukewarm on the JT Miller trade. He's a good player but I think a Tyson Barrie type would have made a bigger impact on the team. Plus I'm still all for giving Virtanen a shot in the top 6. He's been taking baby steps towards being a power forward type player that can produce. His rise has been slow but steady. 

 

If the Canucks had taken on Pavel Datsyuk's contract back in 2016 and drafted Jakob Chychrun or Dante Fabbro at 16, the idea of playoffs in 2 years would have been believable. Edler and Hughes, Fabbro and Joulevi, Hutton and Stetcher. That says competitive to me. 

 

Philly trading up for Bobby Brink really shocked me. He was my second round pick as well. But that's a move they can make considering they have one of the best young defence cores in the league and have got Joel Farabee and Morgan Frost in the pipeline. 

Edited by Clock Tower Prison
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Quote

  ..... the flavour of the day

Blues Stanley Cup champions' roster of 26:

1st rounders - 10

2nd rounders - 7

3rd rounders - 5

Russians - 2

Swedes - 2

Canadians - 19

 

Quote

we just traded either next years first or the following one for a former 15th overall

A prime, NHL hardened, gritty 1st rounder into our immediate roster beats a mebbe NHLer some years from now, anyway you look at it.

 

At the draft:

Jimbo earns a B+

Sportsnet deserve an F-

These commentators will never make the NHL.

 

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5 hours ago, Baggins said:

It's lottery protected next year. We miss the playoffs next year and it gets pushed to 2021 and they get it regardless of where we finish that season. This is why I don't mind the trade at all. The odds are it will be a bottom half 1st rounder and they may have to wait two years to get it. Not a bad deal for a top six forward with grit that can play all three positions.

I totally agree JTM will make our top 6 better. JB has a whole year to get that pick back. But I think drafting a right D man in the second round would have been  better.

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14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Lind was a great pick.  The kid didn’t even know how to shop for food when he moved to Utica.  His body fat was way to high because of a terrible diet.  He wasn’t in professional shape.  He was a boy on his own for the first time.  He’s going to take a really big step this year.  Gadjovic is the guy I think is a bustaroo.

Thanks for the perspective background on this  I wasn't aware of this. I've also wondered about Gadjovic yet hold out some hope but I'm leaning to your judgement on this one too. 

 

I'm not disappointed about this draft as far as Vancouver goes. There's a bigger picture yet to complete itself. I reserve judgement until the first regular season game. Then we can see what this years team looks like. 

 

No one can really tell how this draft was for Vancouver because none of these players are slated to play, they are slated to develop. 

 

I think the one thing I've taken away from this draft is that every player Vancouver drafted has drive. That can'r be said for past drafts. Guy like Gadjovic have all this potential but drive seems limited. Every player have to want it bad regardless of size. 

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42 minutes ago, Mo Grit said:

Blues Stanley Cup champions' roster of 26:

1st rounders - 10

2nd rounders - 7

3rd rounders - 5

Russians - 2

Swedes - 2

Canadians - 19

 

A prime, NHL hardened, gritty 1st rounder into our immediate roster beats a mebbe NHLer some years from now, anyway you look at it.

 

At the draft:

Jimbo earns a B+

Sportsnet deserve an F-

These commentators will never make the NHL.

 

You just brought up a pont i totally missed and I 110% agree. Sportsnet gets an F-, lower than snail $hit. The hockey media on a whole is watered down. Few have hard stories just unfounded opinions. Even our beloved Jason Botchford was overly speculative. 

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1 minute ago, aqua59 said:

Thanks for the perspective background on this  I wasn't aware of this. I've also wondered about Gadjovic yet hold out some hope but I'm leaning to your judgement on this one too. 

 

I'm not disappointed about this draft as far as Vancouver goes. There's a bigger picture yet to complete itself. I reserve judgement until the first regular season game. Then we can see what this years team looks like. 

 

No one can really tell how this draft was for Vancouver because none of these players are slated to play, they are slated to develop. 

 

I think the one thing I've taken away from this draft is that every player Vancouver drafted has drive. That can'r be said for past drafts. Guy like Gadjovic have all this potential but drive seems limited. Every player have to want it bad regardless of size. 

I think that “drive” quality is why Kalayev (sp?) fell out of round one.  A guy can have lots of skill, but if he has no drive, he will not do well when things get tough.  

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I’d just like to point out that the Marleau trade has very little comparison to the Miller trade as it’s understood the Canes will buy him out. 

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5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not if they pick a “Lind type “ according to another poster... ha ha.  Bad joke.  

 

It’s debatable for sure whether that pick was a smart one, I fired a phew quick salvos of disappointment on here somewhere showing my disappointment as have been preaching patience and more drafting and development required etc for quite some time.   Then I spent some time looking at it and the value of the trade, and it was definitely a good value for us, and for them as a cash strapped team too.   The reality is we just traded either next years first or the following one for a former 15th overall (which is where we could predict we will likely be around depending which year they pick), for a underused 6’1” 218lb bulldog in his prime for a minimum of four years at a good cap hit who’s capable of scoring 60plus points on the first or second line, 40-50 on the third with some decent line mates.  

 

If we are a lottery team next year then no worries.  If we are somehow a lottery team again the next year the pick will be close to 16, and those guys don’t usually play for two or three years minimum.  That means whomever we lose in this deal won’t play until Horvat is close to 30, possibly already gone, and half-way through the rest of the cores second deals.   Benning (or his successor) could flip JT Miller for a first as a rental to a contender or playoff team in three-four years if he’s going to be too rich for the next deal or we don’t need him or we just want another pick etc.   

 

There is no way we were going to add a top six guy without using picks or overpayment for an older UFA....between the two and the cap that will be required to fill in the defense I can definitely see why this move was made.  No team is built on drafting alone, this was a ballsy move ... my bet is he will become a fan favourite, and it’s possible we make the playoffs next year.   Needs to shed some chaf somehow next and improve our defense ..

Exactly my thoughts. Teams need cap friendly role players to win. I believe in the young core and good to see that management does as well.

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8 hours ago, Strombone said:

Are you kidding? Ever since JB got here, all he's been talking about is building a team full of character guys in a winning environment. He obviously looks at what they bring on the ice, but more importantly he evaluates their attitude. Good character guys that love to win is our team's identity. Attitude goes a long way; look at the Sedins.

100% agree. Look at Buffalo. They traded a solid guy in Tyler Myers for basically an obnoxious man child in Evander Kane. I still can't believe they thought Kane was a missing piece for them. 

 

I give that draft a B+. A lot of good choices made but a little boring. I was hoping for some hometown fireworks like Puljujarvi being traded or moving up for Byram. 

Edited by OneSeventeen
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16 hours ago, Clock Tower Prison said:

Solid B. High compete level seems to have been the theme of this draft. 

 

Podkolzin was the right pick at 10. Absolutely no doubt that he was the BPA at 10. The modern NHL game is all about speed and puck control. He’s got that plus size and strength. Plus it seems like regardless of where he plays coaches are raving about his attitude. I said it once and I’ll say it again, if he was Swedish we’d all be stoked to have landed him at 10. For all the guys that are lukewarm on him, just imagine his name was Viktor Palsson and he was signed for 2 years in the SHL. 

 

I’m also disappointed that Cozens or Zegras didn’t fall to us. But if I had to guess, Benning likely didn’t want to sacrifice the 40th pick to see if it would have some trade value today. Too bad Tampa didn’t want it. Hoglander seems like a fitness beast. A small guy with filthy hands that already plays against men seems like a great pick at 40. 

 

As for the JT Miller trade, there’s just too much risk attached to this trade to be completely palatable. Especially when I look at the core of our team:

 

  1. Core players on our team are still developing. Pettersson, our #1C just finished his first year. Hughes, our #1D is just starting his first year. What will happen with Baertschi's health? How will Virtanen, Gaudette, Goldobin and Joulevi develop are question marks. 
  2. Edler, Tanev, Hughes, Hutton, Stetcher and Schenn. Doesn’t exactly say playoff contender. Tryamkin being added to that list doesn’t exactly inspire that much more confidence either. 

 

Pros: Miller is really smart, highly skilled and versatile. He can play anywhere and make a difference. A 40-50 point player signed at a reasonable cap of $5.25 mil. At just 26, he’ll likely be able to fetch a decent return in a few years, should the Canucks wish to move on. 

 

Cons: Hopefully Benning recovers a first round pick in either 2020 or 2021. The Canucks don’t have the prospect depth, especially at defence, to be giving away first round picks in either year. The Canucks need top 4 talent on defence. They need an alternative to Tanev since he just can't seem to stay healthy and someone to play with Hughes. 

 

The only minor disappointment for me was the Canucks going with an overage in Carson Focht at 133 instead of RHD Martin Hugo Has who was taken at 153. 

 

Super weird that Benning feels like untested players at the NHL level in Rafferty, Teves, Eliot, Chatfield and Brisebois counts as depth. 

CTP.  

 

 

Good assessment.  I differ in a few areas.  

 

Podz.... damn son, JB hit another 1st rounder out of the park.  

 

In 5 years, he is a top 5 in any legit re draft... his falling stock was mostly due to his contract status.  Signing that contract cost Podz a few million as he could be playing in NA as early as next season.  

 

Had Podz not signed that contract he would've doned another jersey on friday.  

 

The contract has nothing to do with his abilities or talents.  The nucks thought he would be long gone by the time they picked.  Like Hughes... we got lucky.  

 

IMO it was a foolish reason to pass on him.  Sooner of later in the 1st round a club was going to benefit from this externality.  

 

As JB said,  anyone we took at 10 was likely going to take at least 2 years to be a player for us, so the contract was a non issue.  

 

Is Zegras going to be a better player than Podz?  

 

Is Zegras going to be a full time NHLer before Podz?  

 

Take his contract status out of the equation and that is his true value.  He was considered better than Dach and Cousins for most of the year.  

 

Brackett was targeting Hogslander in the second as his player, even though he thought Nils would.be gone in the late first.  

 

This is a Gradin/Brackett pick.  Think about that.  

 

Already playing full time in the SHL.  At 17.  

 

He can juggle and ride a unicycle... 

 

Very exciting.  

 

Keppen...   damn son.  That guy is huge, 9th rated OHLer, fantastic primary production while carrying his own line, 17 years old and still growning.  Considered to be a Podz lite player for teams looking for a power forward.  

 

Costmar.  Could be a epic steal.  Malone... decent, Silvors.. love Latvian goalies.  They are giant killers.  

 

No defenceman, but winger depth is addressed.  

 

The picks along with the Miller deal, JB has nothing to do up front but deal some guys off the team to free up.spots.  no more space filling players.  

 

This indicates to me that JB must have more work laid out this offseason.  He has stated that he was making changes to the defence.  

 

Now that Edler is signed, this gives JB the room to add Myers or make a deal.   If a trade is needed, I would kick the tires on Zaitzev.  He could.be a bottom 6 PP specialist.  He would be super cheap and a nice player to help our Russian winger and wayward d man come.back.  

 

We have lots of chips and cap space to make a deal for a decent top 4 RHD and JB simply has to make improvements or he is done.  

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Clock Tower Prison said:

Solid B. High compete level seems to have been the theme of this draft. 

 

Podkolzin was the right pick at 10. Absolutely no doubt that he was the BPA at 10. The modern NHL game is all about speed and puck control. He’s got that plus size and strength. Plus it seems like regardless of where he plays coaches are raving about his attitude. I said it once and I’ll say it again, if he was Swedish we’d all be stoked to have landed him at 10. For all the guys that are lukewarm on him, just imagine his name was Viktor Palsson and he was signed for 2 years in the SHL. 

 

I’m also disappointed that Cozens or Zegras didn’t fall to us. But if I had to guess, Benning likely didn’t want to sacrifice the 40th pick to see if it would have some trade value today. Too bad Tampa didn’t want it. Hoglander seems like a fitness beast. A small guy with filthy hands that already plays against men seems like a great pick at 40. 

 

As for the JT Miller trade, there’s just too much risk attached to this trade to be completely palatable. Especially when I look at the core of our team:

 

  1. Core players on our team are still developing. Pettersson, our #1C just finished his first year. Hughes, our #1D is just starting his first year. What will happen with Baertschi's health? How will Virtanen, Gaudette, Goldobin and Joulevi develop are question marks. 
  2. Edler, Tanev, Hughes, Hutton, Stetcher and Schenn. Doesn’t exactly say playoff contender. Tryamkin being added to that list doesn’t exactly inspire that much more confidence either. 

 

Pros: Miller is really smart, highly skilled and versatile. He can play anywhere and make a difference. A 40-50 point player signed at a reasonable cap of $5.25 mil. At just 26, he’ll likely be able to fetch a decent return in a few years, should the Canucks wish to move on. 

 

Cons: Hopefully Benning recovers a first round pick in either 2020 or 2021. The Canucks don’t have the prospect depth, especially at defence, to be giving away first round picks in either year. The Canucks need top 4 talent on defence. They need an alternative to Tanev since he just can't seem to stay healthy and someone to play with Hughes. 

 

The only minor disappointment for me was the Canucks going with an overage in Carson Focht at 133 instead of RHD Martin Hugo Has who was taken at 153. 

 

Super weird that Benning feels like untested players at the NHL level in Rafferty, Teves, Eliot, Chatfield and Brisebois counts as depth. 

 

The only 'disappointment' for me is that the BPA did not line up with RHD, particularly at 10 and 40.  On the other hand, I did not expect Seider to be gone at 10, nor Podkolzin to be there, so it's impossible to be 'disappointed' with 10 - Podkolzin represents another principal need imo.   And at 40, again, I was thinking a Korczak or even Helleson might be nice if they were the bpa there, but Hoglander imo 'should' have gone in the mid 20s, so I consider him a steal at 40.

 

Miller - for me - is an ideal add - one that actually complements / enhances the conditions for two of your young core players - EP and Boeser - I consider that a reasonable cost on a well-crafted trade target - so we can agree to disagree on that.

 

But the reason I'm quoting your post as opposed to just responding to the thread in general - is the bolded part - where do you take this Benning feeling from (do you have a reference where he says that, or is it your perception?) - and what makes it so  super 'weird'?

 

Edited by oldnews
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I don't pretend to know a lot about these draft picks - and am only going by highlights and what those who know better than I are saying.

 

But imo, I think Benning did very well once again.  At least with the 1st 3 picks. All guys who have skill and play with tenacity and relative size. I would have liked to have seen a dman but they were clearly high on their picks.

 

I feel the Miller trade was a good pickup, though I wonder if we gave up a bit too much to a cap strapped team. I was always vying for Lee to come here for free - despite a higher cap hit. I would have opted not to lose the 1st if that was a possibility.

 

I rate our draft a B. I like the players we got, and we will see soon if Miller significantly adds what Benning got him for.

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21 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

I think the 1st is awarded 2019/20 if the Canucks are in the playoffs, if not it slides to 2020/21. I also heard it's top 5? Protected 

Lottery protected next year. Not protected at all if they get 2021.

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5 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

CTP.  

 

 

Good assessment.  I differ in a few areas.  

 

Podz.... damn son, JB hit another 1st rounder out of the park.  

 

In 5 years, he is a top 5 in any legit re draft... his falling stock was mostly due to his contract status.  Signing that contract cost Podz a few million as he could be playing in NA as early as next season.  

 

Had Podz not signed that contract he would've doned another jersey on friday.  

 

The contract has nothing to do with his abilities or talents.  The nucks thought he would be long gone by the time they picked.  Like Hughes... we got lucky.  

 

IMO it was a foolish reason to pass on him.  Sooner of later in the 1st round a club was going to benefit from this externality.  

 

As JB said,  anyone we took at 10 was likely going to take at least 2 years to be a player for us, so the contract was a non issue.  

 

Is Zegras going to be a better player than Podz?  

 

Is Zegras going to be a full time NHLer before Podz?  

 

Take his contract status out of the equation and that is his true value.  He was considered better than Dach and Cousins for most of the year.  

 

Brackett was targeting Hogslander in the second as his player, even though he thought Nils would.be gone in the late first.  

 

This is a Gradin/Brackett pick.  Think about that.  

 

Already playing full time in the SHL.  At 17.  

 

He can juggle and ride a unicycle... 

 

Very exciting.  

 

Keppen...   damn son.  That guy is huge, 9th rated OHLer, fantastic primary production while carrying his own line, 17 years old and still growning.  Considered to be a Podz lite player for teams looking for a power forward.  

 

Costmar.  Could be a epic steal.  Malone... decent, Silvors.. love Latvian goalies.  They are giant killers.  

 

No defenceman, but winger depth is addressed.  

 

The picks along with the Miller deal, JB has nothing to do up front but deal some guys off the team to free up.spots.  no more space filling players.  

 

This indicates to me that JB must have more work laid out this offseason.  He has stated that he was making changes to the defence.  

 

Now that Edler is signed, this gives JB the room to add Myers or make a deal.   If a trade is needed, I would kick the tires on Zaitzev.  He could.be a bottom 6 PP specialist.  He would be super cheap and a nice player to help our Russian winger and wayward d man come.back.  

 

We have lots of chips and cap space to make a deal for a decent top 4 RHD and JB simply has to make improvements or he is done.  

 

 

 

 

 

Oh thank god!!!!

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