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[Signing] Tyler Myers to Vancouver

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5 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Explain what you mean by that question.

That you're comparing Myers to 6th/7th Dmen. If your position is that those players are comparable (with Myers being marginally the best of the group), then he is theoretically worth marginally more than they are. So, I ask again, would you pay any of those guys close to 7x7? If not, then you shouldn't be fine with a contract of that nature to Myers. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

That you're comparing Myers to 6th/7th Dmen.

confirmed that you (and your sidekick) missed the point -  that others seem to get.

If you believe all his partners were 6/7 D men, then ask yourself how that effects his outcomes - an what you might 'expect' in a different context.

in any event, I already answered this in the edited response to your last post.

Edited by oldnews
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3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

confirmed that you (and your sidekick) missed the point -  that others seem to get.

If you believe all his partners were 6/7 D men, then ask yourself how that effects his outcomes - an what you might 'expect' in a different context.

in any event, I already answered this in the edited response to your last post.

It might be time to hang them up. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

Go turn your radio on and listen to the morons on 650 and 1040 acting as if a 7×7 has been offered to Myers. Then they get thr so called "insiders" to come on air and crap all over the canucks management as if this did happen. You then get all these "fire benning idiots" on the radio or on this message board craping over management when they have absolutely zero proof that any of this happened. 

Im more than happy to come on this board and discuss all things canucks related but to b#$ch and whine on things that we have no knowledge or proof of what was actually discussed or offered to myers is a fkn joke.

I’m not in Vancouver so I don’t listen to 650. But from this board I haven’t noticed any posters calling for Benning head for a signing that hasn’t happened yet. I do see a bunch of people here weary about locking our team into a potential long term deal though.

 

As for the talking media heads, most of them have a million times more credibility than anyone here.  Just because you might not agree with there opinion doesn't mean they are incorrect.  Botch (rip) called out the Dahlen trade a week before it happened and people lost minds "b#$ching and whining" about the claim ever making personal insults towards him, then a week later passes and Dahlen is traded, guess who looks like the "fkn joke" after that

 

Every fan base has those panic idiots and pitchfork, but just as bad they are they white knights are almost as bad.  Criticism is regarded as hate, discussion is regarded as whining, opposite opinions are washed off as uncredible. Both sides come across off as spoiled 12 year olds.  

Edited by ForsbergTheGreat
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54 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

I would be disappointed with this as well, but honestly I'd rather this than significantly overpaying for Myers. 

 

Also, with the improved top 6, and another year of development for all of the core stars, as well as a full year of Hughes, the team could theoretically improve enough to compete for a playoff spot, assuming the core guys stay relatively healthy. 

that's a strange claim.

 

you believe the team will compete for a playoff spot with this blueline:

 

Edler - Tanev

Hughes - Schenn

Hutton - Stecher

Teves

 

?

 

Ok "make the right move" - what is your "right move" for that blueline?

 

 

 

 

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 8:27 PM, oldnews said:

It's interesting that Friedman elects to say there are no teams  with the "want or will".   And he qualifies it with an  "I just don't know"....

 

If he'd said there's only one team in position to make this signing and serious, that would be one thing - but he does a little troll thing suggesting that there aren't any other teams that would have the want either - while just not knowing.

 

I find that borderline absurd - is he honestly tying to suggest that a Leafs team with a cap dump material Zaitsev and nothing else on their right side would not "want" Myers, even if they had the cap flexibility to fill a need of theirs - and in a deflated market with few serious suitors?   Hmmm.  That no other teams would want Myers if they were in a position to pursue him?   Well done if his point is to insult the player.   Poor Canucks fans - they only get the players that no one else wants - and of course, pay way too much for them, right.  Hmmm.  I'm just not sure this is Elliot's finest moment.

 

Almost makes me hope this deal happens and that Myers crushes it here.  Like I've said, he's not necessarily my first choice, but a large part of my hesitancy is due to the speculated terms - I should know better by now than place any signficance in the noise - and wait until we see what actually happens.

 

Anyhow - I guess the Canucks can send him a thank you note for undermining Myers' negotiating position - at least publiclly.  The reactionary element can send him a thank you as well, for helping substantiate their fears around a potential signing where Benning has leverage but doesn't use it, of course..  And Myers can send him a fk you for suggesting that no one else wants him.

 

Of course Myers' agent would know this - if it's in fact true.

 

Maybe there's an undercurrent here - of bitterness/envy - as his imploding Leafs are in no position to compete for anyone - want or not.

 

 

IF that is in fact the case, than the Myers camp has no leverage. There are no other teams to drive up the price.

 

He is a legitimate top 4 dman and plays the right side, so at the very least he checks those two boxes for us. I am warming up to the idea of signing Myers - just not at the terms being reported.

 

I would hope that Benning digs his feet in and offers a max 4 years 30 million dollar contract, maybe 5 year 36 million if there are other teams involved. I would be okay with a cap hit of up to 7.5 but term would have to be 5 years or less (takes him up to the age of 34) and hes off the books by the time Podk and Hoglander come off their ELC's.

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10 minutes ago, oldnews said:

that's a strange claim. Sure bud. 

 

you believe the team will compete for a playoff spot with this blueline:

 

Edler - Tanev

Hughes - Schenn

Hutton - Stecher

Teves

 

?

 

Ok "make the right move" - what is your "right move" for that blueline?

 

 

 

 

No I don't. But I certainly think that signing Stralman/equivalent and two 5th/6th level guys (Schenn & Hutton for example, or anyone else that fits the need at a reasonable hit) and not crippling the team for the next 7 years with $7M+ locked up in Myers is a much better position than having Myers as an anchor on the back end of 3/4 of a decade. 

 

Ideally, the Canucks can trade for a top 4 D, or sign someone like Stralman to a reasonable/shorter term deal. In a perfect world, Juolevi has a great development year, and Barrie comes home and the Canucks are left with a top 6 of Edler, Hughes, Barrie, Juolevi, Stecher, Tanev/Stralman/Etc. I realize this isn't exactly something that can be planned for, but it's a hell of a lot better to have the opportunity at something like that than it would be to cripple the team's ability to build a truly strong defense corps by signing Myers to a ridiculous deal. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

No I don't. But I certainly think that signing Stralman/equivalent and two 5th/6th level guys (Schenn & Hutton for example, or anyone else that fits the need at a reasonable hit) and not crippling the team for the next 7 years with $7M+ locked up in Myers is a much better position than having Myers as an anchor on the back end of 3/4 of a decade. 

 

Ideally, the Canucks can trade for a top 4 D, or sign someone like Stralman to a reasonable/shorter term deal. In a perfect world, Juolevi has a great development year, and Barrie comes home and the Canucks are left with a top 6 of Edler, Hughes, Barrie, Juolevi, Stecher, Tanev/Stralman/Etc. I realize this isn't exactly something that can be planned for, but it's a hell of a lot better to have the opportunity at something like that than it would be to cripple the team's ability to build a truly strong defense corps by signing Myers to a ridiculous deal. 

 

 

Ok let's say that Tampa, knowing they're getting Callahan cap relief (LTIR) - re-sign Stralman (as they did Coburn)?

So he's off the market (hypothetically).  I have no problem with signing Stralman btw - have advocated it for a while now, but that's somewhat beside the point).

Who's next?

 

What in your opinion is Myers worth?  You haven't really qualified what his value is - and you're merely making assumptions about signing him 'crippling' the team's ability to build a 'truly strong' defense core.  It's just a subtle shopping list with one name - but at what point does Myers become 'crippling'?   What do you base the evaluation on?   You mock the process of pointing out his outcomes relative to different guys he played with - what are you basing your 'crippling' assumptions on?

 

 

Edited by oldnews

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1 minute ago, oldnews said:

Ok let's say that Tampa, knowing they're getting Callahan cap relief (LTIR) - re-sign Stralman (as they did Coburn)?

So he's off the market (hypothetically).

Who's next?

 

What in your opinion is Myers worth?  You haven't really qualified what his value is - and you're merely making assumptions about signing him 'crippling' the team's ability to build a 'truly strong' defense core.  It's just a subtle shopping list with one name - but at what point does Myers become 'crippling'?   What do you base the evaluation on?   You mock the process of pointing out his outcomes relative to different guys he played with - what are you basing your 'crippling' assumptions on?

 

 

Stralman is just a mid-rage placeholder, the point is not signing a mediocre player to a massive contract, so pick anyone who could fill that role for a few years. 

 

I would be happy to pay Myers something similar to what Edler got. Max that I'd be comfortable with is something like $6x4. Myers is not a $7M+ defenseman. He's at best a top 4 guy for 2-3 years and then likely worse than that. You can overpay for him for a couple of years and live with it but to give him $7M for 7 years would certainly hinder this team's ability 3-4 years down the road, when the core will be in their absolute prime, to either keep all of them, or add necessary pieces at a deadline/draft to put the team over the top. 

 

I think very few people here would actually be comfortable signing Myers to a $7Mx7 contract and I'm afraid some team will pay him that, I just really hope it's not the Canucks. 

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I hate that 7x7 & 29 yrs # may be the only real credible option for the team.Seems we could not grab a star stud if the cows came home. And if we did it would implode an bust.

I don’t mind term but without upgrades on D the team will still not be playoff bound unless goalies steal 20-25 games . That may be wishful thinking .

for me the ? Is why has JB waited so long to upgrade the blue line aside from two D picks in draft with tons  of promise ,we seem a long ways off yet from contending .

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I think 6 million is an overpayment but that’s the number I’m ok with.  Definitely would not do beyond 5 years either.  Anything less than 6 million would be great, a dollar more I let him sign somewhere else.  Edler is better and only signed for 2 years and was also set to be a UFA, he obviously gave a discount but I still think you can’t pay a dollar more.  

 

Myers is one of the only options to give us a size-able boost but if the price isn’t right I continue to explore the trade market.

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1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I agree that he's worth adding - within limits - I don't know if he'll be overpaid, I guess we'll find out over term if it happens.

 

The bargain hunt though - imo is not that bad - and not merely a bunch of 6/7s out there - I think there are actually a fair number of 3/4/5 placeholders that could/should be reasonably priced and not require a lot of term, while improving the team.  I think that takes the pressure off the need to go to hard after a player like Myers - there are alternatives that you may not have for 6 years, but there are also advantages to lesser term and the ability to bring young players in or up from within in due course, or pursue subsequent opportunities (while having committed less cap).

 

thats probably true, but there are more suitors for those guys than for Myers too. My guess fwiw is Myers probably has 3 legit offers whereas a guy like Stralman might have 6 or 7 given his utility, 1/2 the price and 1/3 the term. 

 

If both the term and money come in under the number "7" I'll be fine with it. The pre-bitching about it is getting tiresome tho.  

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, bobbyg43 said:

I hate that 7x7 & 29 yrs # may be the only real credible option for the team.Seems we could not grab a star stud if the cows came home. And if we did it would implode an bust.

I don’t mind term but without upgrades on D the team will still not be playoff bound unless goalies steal 20-25 games . That may be wishful thinking .

for me the ? Is why has JB waited so long to upgrade the blue line aside from two D picks in draft with tons  of promise ,we seem a long ways off yet from contending .

That’s a good question.

Edited by PhillipBlunt
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26 minutes ago, oldnews said:

that's a strange claim.

 

you believe the team will compete for a playoff spot with this blueline:

 

Edler - Tanev

Hughes - Schenn

Hutton - Stecher

Teves

 

?

 

Ok "make the right move" - what is your "right move" for that blueline?

 

 

 

 

Well by the end of the year we were only 9 points out of a playoff spot and were top 5 I believe in man games lost to injury. Add to this that we lost over 30 1 goal games, also top 5 most in the league. If we can remain healthy, and squeeze out a few more points in those close games, I like our chances with or without Myers. Given that we've improved our top 6 with the addition of Miller, got rid of Pouliot (addition by subtraction), Hughes, Pettersson, Stetcher, Horvat, and Boeser have another year of development, I think we have a pretty decent shot.

 

Sprinkle in a full year of Markstrom (if he continues to play like the 2nd half of last season) and we're a playoff team.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

Stralman is just a mid-rage placeholder, the point is not signing a mediocre player to a massive contract, so pick anyone who could fill that role for a few years. 

 

I would be happy to pay Myers something similar to what Edler got. Max that I'd be comfortable with is something like $6x4. Myers is not a $7M+ defenseman. He's at best a top 4 guy for 2-3 years and then likely worse than that. You can overpay for him for a couple of years and live with it but to give him $7M for 7 years would certainly hinder this team's ability 3-4 years down the road, when the core will be in their absolute prime, to either keep all of them, or add necessary pieces at a deadline/draft to put the team over the top. 

 

I think very few people here would actually be comfortable signing Myers to a $7Mx7 contract and I'm afraid some team will pay him that, I just really hope it's not the Canucks. 

Hold on.

 

A "mediocre player?"

 

You're proposing he's worth the 6 million that Edler is getting - but you're referring to him as a "mediocre player"?  In the end you're merely splitting the difference between 6 and 7  - while your assessment of his value at 6 million smacks your "mediocre" commentary in the face.

 

Come on  - get real - you can't play it both ways. 

And you have not provided anything to substantiate - again - your assessment of the player.

 

You're contradicting yourself in the first place, you're doing nothing to substantively evaluate the player and you're trying to play everything you post off rumours of 7x7.

I see literally no point.  I don't think anyone wants to go any longer term than needed - but your entire premise falls apart when you call him mediocre and then offer him $6 million.

Edited by oldnews
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Just now, oldnews said:

Hold on.

 

A mediocre player?  to a massive contract?

 

You're proposing he's worth the 6 million that Edler is getting - but you're referring to him as a "mediocre player"?

 

Come on  - get real - you can't play it both ways. 

And you have not provided anything to substantiate - again - your assessment of the player.

While ironically offering him $6 million - before you default to this strange fixation on a fear of 7x7.

You're contradicting yourself in the first place, you're doing nothing to substantively evaluate the player and you're trying to play everything you post off rumours of 7x7.

I see literally no point.

You never refute a single thing that I say and add nothing at all of substance on your own. 

 

$7Mx7 for Tyler Myers is a massive contract absolutely. I believe he is a mediocre player, that's an opinion that can be refuted absolutely. 

 

$6M over 2-3 years is a lot different than $7M over 7. They could pay Stralman 6 for 2 years and I'd be fine even though it's a pretty substantial overpayment. It's the term that's the terrifying part. I'm fine if they sign Myers to $6M over 2-3, which is completely reasonable and a thought shared by many here. My "fixation" of $7Mx7 is derived from multiple reports stating that's what the consensus seems to be that he will get. Of course that could be wrong, reporters are wrong more than they breathe, but I'm providing insight on what has been discussed, and if the amount and term are less, great! 

 

I haven't contradicted myself whatsoever. Your posts are pointless and I'm getting tired of responding because I just have to keep regurgitating the same points that you can't seem to comprehend. Let it go old boy. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Maketherightmove said:

You never refute a single thing that I say and add nothing at all of substance on your own. 

not sure if serious

 

you don't offer a player you consider "mediocre"$6 million, regardless of the term.

You can't see the obvious contradiction in your position?

 

I've added lots of material here for people to consider - or not -= Myers' deployment, his partners, 'underlying' / 'possession' numbers / shot attempt differentials, grit numbers, scoring in the various situations (5 on 5, powerplay, short-handed), his on ice goal metrics,  his ice time and special teams ice-time, his partners relative numbers, etc.

 

Edited by oldnews

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