What the Miller trade tells us about our playoff future

[dm_ranger]

48 minutes ago, Tystick said:

Exactly.

If we don't make the playoffs next year, guess what? We keep the pick.

Pretty damn good move if you ask me.

I guess the people that don't like the trade would have preferred giving up prospects?

Right.  I don't like the price, but it isn't as bad as it could be.  

 

If we just miss the playoffs, we keep the lottery pick -- Will Benning be around to make the pick?  Maybe/maybe not -- but it is a high pick for him or the next GM.

If we don't make the playoffs the next two year -- well then we are looking like the Oilers and we might as well start rebuilding the rebuild and it is no longer JB issue anyway.

If we make the playoffs -- Benning probably keeps his job.

[GB5]

The positive is that Benning is trying to surround the young players with guys that can support them and help them to be better......This is something that teams like Edmonton has failed to grasp.

[Silver Ghost]

59 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think Benning was (is) under pressure to make the Canucks a playoff team next year. This trade, to me, has ownership written all over it. A "do what it takes to get him" directive. I don't understand why Benning would trade a 1st and an important 3rd this year for a player who scored 13 goals last year on a stacked TB team and never scoring more than 22. I do like the player but the cost was too high IMO. I hope Miller is a difference maker, Benning traded the future for him. 

Maybe Benning is under pressure from ownership to make the playoffs this year. But even if that is true, is it necessarily a bad thing?

 

This trade is probably the easiest to understand why Benning did it out of any trade he has made. Miller is exactly what our top 6 needs. 

 

He scored 13 goals and had 47 points in75 games. Largely in a bottom 6 , secondary scoring role. Can he improve those numbers playing with EP and BB? Pretty safe bet to say yes on that. Plus he provides a physical, 200 foot game and excellent work along the boards and below the hash marks to retrieve pucks. Add in solid passing ability and you can reasonably expect he can help keep oppoments from ignoring him to defensively smother EP and BB. Miller is dangerous too. And provides versatility to play center and on a pp unit.

 

Lets just admit that hating a conditional 1st included (i think its reasonable tbh) does not make this a hard to understand trade.

 

The Canucks owners and mabagement SHOULD be demanding playoffs in the next few years. Or we could be Edmonton and Buffalo who are happy to lose.

[Monteeun]

This may be worth a watch...just another perspective

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Monteeun

[Tystick]

25 minutes ago, dm_ranger said:

Right.  I don't like the price, but it isn't as bad as it could be.  

 

If we just miss the playoffs, we keep the lottery pick -- Will Benning be around to make the pick?  Maybe/maybe not -- but it is a high pick for him or the next GM.

If we don't make the playoffs the next two year -- well then we are looking like the Oilers and we might as well start rebuilding the rebuild and it is no longer JB issue anyway.

If we make the playoffs -- Benning probably keeps his job.

Benning keeps his job either way IMO.

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Typically, teams giving away first rounders in trades are considered to be legitimate contending teams looking for that one piece that will put them over the top to beat the other juggernauts of their division/conference/league - not teams who are struggling to get a wild-card spot just to go 0-4 in the first round then out.  What struck me as odd, is that JB has preached from day one here, with Linden by his side at that time, that in his model you build through the draft.  That your picks are a team's #1 commodity and they are the base-value of currency in the NHL today.  Yet there he was, trading that valuable commodity and somewhat departing from what he's said here from day one - build through the draft and acquire more picks, don't give them away.   The other thing that struck me as odd, is that also from day one, JB has stated over and over that in his model you build through the draft in goal, defence, center - in that order.  Then he goes out and gets absolutely ZERO defencemen this year? 

 

Apologies if this sounds somewhat negative, but I was on a roller-coaster this weekend watching the draft and being so pumped about our first pick then learning JB had given away the first to TB.  It was just such a departure from what JB has said all along here - which makes me wonder if that was his plan all along and he didn't allude to it for 5 years, or if in fact what people speculate is true that he's on the 'hot-seat' this year to get Aquaman some results or his contract is in jeopardy which led to making this out of character move? 

Not all first round picks are created equal and this is certainly a gamble but some perspective is important.  Tampa gave up TWO 1st round picks (1 conditional), Namestinikov, and Howden for Miller & McDonagh not even 2 yrs ago? Miller had 40 points in 63 games prior to that trade.    He is not a consistent 50+ point producer and an incredibly versatile player.  If a Top 6 50+ point versatile NHL forward in his prime is not worth a non-lottery 1st, then not sure who is.    The only risk from this move is the Canucks are lottery team again in two years.   THAT is the risk.   That would mean that entire young core simply isn't good enough - not just the results from one trade.    

 

Given Miller's game, his contract (AAV and term) and the role he can play within the top six, there is no question there is risk with this move but I personally like this sort of risk over taking on many other sorts of risk.

 

When you say he gets absolutely ZERO defencemen you seemingly are forgetting about Edler and fact Hughes will have a full-season next year....plus good chance OJ is up and ready by not later than Christmas (if not sooner).   Further, there is the FA route and other trades remain possible (they don't stop trading just because the draft is over).   I am surprised they didn't grab a Dman in the draft but then again I think they drafted very well again this year and now have some great offensive talent throughout the pipeline in a league that is struggling in general to score goals.

 

I think no matter what moves the Canucks make there will be a need to judge by their results over next couple of years but this is one deal that while risky for sure (and not my preferred approach), I understand and assuming playoffs are made - the return is more than reasonable for the pick slot....Miller himself being a first round pick who has exceeded his draft slot. 

[smithers joe]

from my perch up in the gallery, i look at building a playoff contender you need certain elements on your roster. last year JB realized we were too easy to play against and needed help up front. he got beagle, roussel and pearson.  petey’s line needed a play driving, gritty winger, enter J.T. miller. we might be alright up front for now. with edler back for 2 years and hughes and stecher ready to play, he needs a puck moving, play driver on the rd. we can get by with that until juolevi and woo are ready. if they don’t make the playoffs, they should be close if the injury bug stays away. 

[koregen]

11 minutes ago, Monteeun said:

This may be worth a watch...just another perspective

 

 

 

He has very good and valid points that I completely agree with, however the video is very long winded and unlikely to get much attention. Forward to 11:00 to get to the meat that is relevant to this post.

[Alflives]

22 minutes ago, Monteeun said:

This may be worth a watch...just another perspective

 

 

 

That guy’s cat is nice and fat.  I like fat cats. 

[koregen]

4 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

from my perch up in the gallery, i look at building a playoff contender you need certain elements on your roster. last year JB realized we were too easy to play against and needed help up front. he got beagle, roussel and pearson.  petey’s line needed a play driving, gritty winger, enter J.T. miller. we might be alright up front for now. with edler back for 2 years and hughes and stecher ready to play, he needs a puck moving, play driver on the rd. we can get by with that until juolevi and woo are ready. if they don’t make the playoffs, they should be close if the injury bug stays away. 

I'm liking the decisions management is making. Obviously the Eriksson and Gudbranson contracts turned out bad, but JB managed to somehow pawn off Gudbranson for Pearson to completely salvage the initial deal. JB acquired this team in a really bad state, Tortorella confirmed it. Gillis left the team with a massive amount of bad contracts that were going to take their time to expire, he also did nothing in the draft aside from the Schneider -> 1st round pick trade that landed us Horvat. You don't recover from the mess that Gillis left us with in 2-3 years, it's more like 5-6 years which is where we are getting to now. I think we have recovered very nicely thanks to JB and managements good draft picks.

 

There has been a bit of luck involved with players falling lower then expected but JB has recognized those opportunities and jumped on them while other teams have let them slip. I feel like our top 2 picks this draft were once again classic JB steals.

[smithers joe]

it is really hard for bengy to make deals because teams are not that enthusiastic about the players we could trade. getting better without any chips to move makes his job almost impossible.  fans want progress but only from moving the players they want moved only for players they want. the owners want back in the playoffs. jim has to fast track the rebuild. he’ll probably have to sign a f.a. d-man which will cost too much. does he go with the same d, or bite the bullet. either way, some fans will be calling for his head.  i guess it goes with the territory. 

[koregen]

6 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

it is really hard for bengy to make deals because teams are not that enthusiastic about the players we could trade. getting better without any chips to move makes his job almost impossible.  fans want progress but only from moving the players they want moved only for players they want. the owners want back in the playoffs. jim has to fast track the rebuild. he’ll probably have to sign a f.a. d-man which will cost too much. does he go with the same d, or bite the bullet. either way, some fans will be calling for his head.  i guess it goes with the territory. 

That's just it, trades have to be of perceptive equal value for both teams. The guys sitting on opposite sides of the trades are not idiots, this isn't fantasy hockey. JB has clearly stated he is not trading our future young core and I love him for it. I imagine other teams are hunting for our core players in trade negotiations and when JB won't budge are playing hardball because of their obvious disappointment.

Edited June 23, 2019 by koregen

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I think Benning was (is) under pressure to make the Canucks a playoff team next year. This trade, to me, has ownership written all over it. A "do what it takes to get him" directive. I don't understand why Benning would trade a 1st and an important 3rd this year for a player who scored 13 goals last year on a stacked TB team and never scoring more than 22. I do like the player but the cost was too high IMO. I hope Miller is a difference maker, Benning traded the future for him. 

He's not primarily a goal scorer but rather a playmaker, which is why he fits so nicely with Petey and Brock - and, as you mention, can score 20+. He plays heavy and can retrieve pucks and make plays. He also does well in front of the net and down low on the pp. Patience, my fellower cdc'er, because time will show. 

[smithers joe]

F.A. said, the dark period is over.  imo, that is pressure on J.B. to make the playoffs this season. good luck to him.

[CanadianRugby]

2 hours ago, koregen said:

Fast forward 1 year, Tyramkin finishes his KHL contract and re-joins the Canucks. Podkolzin proves himself to be a stud and NHL ready after a full season in the KHL. Management does some wrangling and manages to buy out the remaining year of the Podkolzins contract and he joins the Canucks as well. We manage to acquire another top 4 defenseman without pressure to pull the trigger on a bad deal.

 

Nils Hoglander, who by the way looks absolutely amazing with his speed and stick handling is ready for the NHL as well.

 

You sound like you work for the Canucks. 

[koregen]

7 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

You sound like you work for the Canucks. 

Haha thanks, but I don't. I'm definitely open to any opportunities though haha. If a media outlet was interested in my opinions that would also be a lot of fun. Following news of the Canucks is my equivalent of others following celebrities or watching soap opera's is the best that I can describe it.

Edited June 23, 2019 by koregen

[CanadianRugby]

1 hour ago, GarthButcher5 said:

The positive is that Benning is trying to surround the young players with guys that can support them and help them to be better......This is something that teams like Edmonton has failed to grasp.

I think you fail to grasp the problems in Edmonton.  You don't think every NHL team is constantly trying to improve their roster?  

Lucic

Maroon

Cammalleri

Letestu

Sekera

Jokinen

Russell

Chiasson

Kassian

All vets brought in to surround young players.  No defensemen, not enough quality depth overall and questionable goaltending were/are their undoing.  

[CanadianRugby]

4 minutes ago, koregen said:

Haha thanks, but I don't. I'm definitely open to any opportunities though haha. If a media outlet was interested in my opinions that would also be a lot of fun. Following news of the Canucks is my equivalent of others following celebrities or watching soap opera's is the best that I can describe it.

Well if you want to get into it seriously then maybe a more balanced opinion is needed, not assuming best case scenario for each player and situation is in the cards.  

[koregen]

1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said:

I think you fail to grasp the problems in Edmonton.  You don't think every NHL team is constantly trying to improve their roster?  

Lucic

Maroon

Cammalleri

Letestu

Sekera

Jokinen

Russell

Chiasson

Kassian

All vets brought in to surround young players.  No defensemen, not enough quality depth overall and questionable goaltending were/are their undoing.  

I think you fail to grasp the difficulties involved in accomplishing this goal.

[koregen]

9 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Well if you want to get into it seriously then maybe a more balanced opinion is needed, not assuming best case scenario for each player and situation is in the cards.  

Balanced opinion is boring to me, it's just regurgitating the obvious that the masses easily agree with. My favourite weekly news/entertainment was the Patcast, it was absolutely amazing and so entertaining, always made me laugh. RIP, you left us way too early

 

A lot that was said in the Podcast kind of went against a lot of media minds, but it's stuff that I 100% agreed with. I absolutely loved them for it, even when Canucks news was down and ugly you could count on the Patcast to put things into perspective and put a smile on your face.

Edited June 24, 2019 by koregen