Smashian Kassian Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Hutton Wink said: We get almost $3mil in cap space. We get almost $3mil in cap space. Your going way overboard here HW. First of all, he wasn't signed as MTRM said, its not like we just traded away a 3 million dollar contract. The loss is that I think Hutton was a solid player, who stepped up for us big time last year and did a pretty decent job. I never said we couldn't sign someone else to replace him. Quote Right, so keeping the same D from last year is the solution? Edler, Tanev, Stecher, are all still here as well. Because that's exactly what I've said, right? That's exactly what I've been saying, right? Again your trying to mis-characterize my post. Your arguing against yourself. Quote If he had value, then why couldn't we get anything for him, despite over a year of shopping him? And what team doesn't let players walk away, including far better ones? Where do UFAs come from? Are they all worth absolutely nothing, that's the only reason? I literally said, right before the part you bolded, (if you wanna actually go read it), that I don't blame management. We couldn't get anything because they tanked his value last year, then this year they relied upon him so heavily that his arbitration case is strong enough to get him a bigger deal than he's worth. Which is why teams weren't going to bite last minute. I don't think they were trying to trade him this season when they we're relying on him in a top 4 role. Again your arguing with yourself, I said I don't blame management for how they've handled Hutton this year. When I say Hutton had value, I meant at one point in time he had good value to us & around the league, that's why he was signed to that bridge deal & they traded for Guddy to play with him. Its unfortunate the way things have turned out, as we all know most people we're hoping he'd be a chip for us to play. But that just hasn't worked out under the circumstances, WHICH. IS. WHAT. I. SAID. Quote Reality of the cap world is that cap space IS an asset, just as much as players. The irony of this coming from a Jim Benning fan..... I'm well aware, I've brought up weaponizing cap space plenty of times. And if I was too critical in making my point on that, it's usually you or the like coming at me over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BertaNuck Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Filthy McNasty said: Well, at over 22 minutes a game last season, he is the TOI/GP leader of the remaining UFA class. That means he’s the best Dman available, right? (Only half kidding here. The fact he could eat those minutes on not completely crap the bed last season probably puts him ahead of most of this year’s Dman UFA class.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Knew this would happen once Edler got overpaid. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Knew this would happen once Edler got overpaid. So how much do other 20-23 minute a game d, that lead the d in scoring get paid anyway? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckGAME Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said: Knew this would happen once Edler got overpaid. Lol what contract do you think a guy like Edler deserves? Overpaid. Uhuh. Ok. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Filthy McNasty said: If he signs for 3 million or less with another team, then I guess he just wanted out of here. If he signs for more, he can be their mistake then. I don't blame him if he wants to walk though as the writing is on the wall that he's likely out once Juolevi is ready anyway so might as well choose where he wants to go rather than be traded wherever when the time comes. Would be nice if he took a one or two year deal with us at around 3 million a season though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thundernuts Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Filthy McNasty said: Not surprising. Hopefully, he is able to land a big pay day somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 31 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: He's a capable, young defenceman who has proven he can play 20 mins a night. He's no all-star but he can handle himself. Just awful asset management once again. You need to foresee these types of things and act accordingly, he easily could of been moved for something Yeah? Cause there was reports at the trade deadline that they had asked around and no one wanted him. Almost like the might have known about the situation, shopped the player, and no one bit. To bad they didn't just easily trade him instead. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: He's a capable, young defenceman who has proven he can play 20 mins a night. He's no all-star but he can handle himself. Just awful asset management once again. You need to foresee these types of things and act accordingly, he easily could of been moved for something So we should have qualified him at 4.2mil? Also, this doesn't mean we don't re-sign him... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Maru Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: So we should have qualified him at 4.2mil? Also, this doesn't mean we don't re-sign him... Definitely not at 4.2m. At 2m Hutton has value, and 3m he has neutral value and at 4m he has negative value. If we get him from 1.75-2.5m I think it would make sense to bring him back. People need to remember that we are trying to build a team where the players total value is more than their cost. Adding negative value doesn’t help the cause. Connor McDavid at 13m has value but at 18m would have negative value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Filthy McNasty said: No surprise, teams aren't interested in giving up assets more often than not But most teams are interested in players they can acquire with money alone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: @canuck73_3Hell no we shouldn't, nor can we afford to. I'm saying instead of letting yet another asset turn in to nothing, we need to be proactive and get something that has a chance to help us in the future. And yeah I know this is all hypothetical, he could still sign with us or we could trade his rights How does an NHL defenceman, 26 years old playing 20mins a night have no value? This year these marginal/borderline/fringe defenceman + a goalie were moved at or around the deadline for mid to late round picks. But Hutton is completely worthless? - Del Zotto making 3 million got moved for a pick - Kincaid 1.25 mil got moved for something and wasn't used once by his new team. Only throwing this one in because he literally didn't Play a game for his new team and made 1.25 mil - Oscar Fantenberg the 3 points in 43 games defenceman was moved for a pick - Here's a good one. Nathan Beaulieu, same age, similar cap hit, similar point production as Hutton was sold for a pick. - The year before - Joe Morrow making 1 mil - Mike Reilly - Ian Cole with a gross 4.25 contract - Jakub Jerabek 1 mil contract, an AHL d-man was moved and only played one game after being moved Is anyone here better than Hutton? Cole probably but not at 4.25, Mike Reilly? Can anyone actually explain how he didn't have value but these guys did? Is there an excuse other than "well Benning didn't move him so obviously he didn't have value". Yeah well Benning hasn't moved a lot of players, including Hamhuis. Did he not have value either? We gave Pedan and a 4th for Pouliot...and we gave a 3rd for Pedan prior to that deal..soooo Did they know Hutton was available for arbitration, did they know he wasn't in there future plans? If so, why wasn't he moved? @DeNiro we discussed this a bit yesterday Ok Hutton was shopped and no one bit. Benning was being proactive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 4:06 PM, combover said: So a player that the gm apparently can’t trade and has no value won’t qualify because he’s so crappy that in arbitration will award him 4mill...... Arbitration usually equals market value And short term. Far less risk than a 30 year old ufa vet sign for 6 years at 6 mill cough eriksdone. If Jim says so the cdc must defend and agree. Well that remains to be seen, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 27 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: @canuck73_3Hell no we shouldn't, nor can we afford to. I'm saying instead of letting yet another asset turn in to nothing, we need to be proactive and get something that has a chance to help us in the future. And yeah I know this is all hypothetical, he could still sign with us or we could trade his rights Can anyone actually explain how he didn't have value but these guys did? Is there an excuse other than "well Benning didn't move him so obviously he didn't have value". Yeah well Benning hasn't moved a lot of players, including Hamhuis. Did he not have value either? We gave Pedan and a 4th for Pouliot...and we gave a 3rd for Pedan prior to that deal..soooo Did they know Hutton was available for arbitration, did they know he wasn't in there future plans? If so, why wasn't he moved? @DeNiro we discussed this a bit yesterday I think I have seen you mention the Hamhuis thing before... Hamhuis blocked a trade to the Caps so I don't see why this is continuously held over Benning's head. I also think it is reasonable to say that teams weren't willing to trade for Hutton figuring they would have a chance at him as UFA. I also think it is possible that JB figures he can re-sign Hutton or at least was willing to take his chances resigning Hutton instead of gaining a relatively worthless 4th or 5th round pick. The chance of getting Hutton on a 2-3M AAV may have more value than what he would have gathered in a trade, especially as a RFA in line to get a raise to 4M via arbitration. I wouldn't give up much/anything for that if I were another NHL team. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: @canuck73_3Hell no we shouldn't, nor can we afford to. I'm saying instead of letting yet another asset turn in to nothing, we need to be proactive and get something that has a chance to help us in the future. And yeah I know this is all hypothetical, he could still sign with us or we could trade his rights How does an NHL defenceman, 26 years old playing 20mins a night have no value? This year these marginal/borderline/fringe defenceman + a goalie were moved at or around the deadline for mid to late round picks. But Hutton is completely worthless? - Del Zotto making 3 million got moved for a pick - Kincaid 1.25 mil got moved for something and wasn't used once by his new team. Only throwing this one in because he literally didn't Play a game for his new team and made 1.25 mil - Oscar Fantenberg the 3 points in 43 games defenceman was moved for a pick - Here's a good one. Nathan Beaulieu, same age, similar cap hit, similar point production as Hutton was sold for a pick. - The year before - Joe Morrow making 1 mil - Mike Reilly - Ian Cole with a gross 4.25 contract - Jakub Jerabek 1 mil contract, an AHL d-man was moved and only played one game after being moved Is anyone here better than Hutton? Cole probably but not at 4.25, Mike Reilly? Can anyone actually explain how he didn't have value but these guys did? Is there an excuse other than "well Benning didn't move him so obviously he didn't have value". Yeah well Benning hasn't moved a lot of players, including Hamhuis. Did he not have value either? We gave Pedan and a 4th for Pouliot...and we gave a 3rd for Pedan prior to that deal..soooo Did they know Hutton was available for arbitration, did they know he wasn't in there future plans? If so, why wasn't he moved? @DeNiro we discussed this a bit yesterday Canucks were still hoping to make the playoffs at the TDL. Anaheim, NJD and LA were already out. They might have tried negotiating a contract and were far apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 6 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said: First of all, he wasn't signed as MTRM said, its not like we just traded away a 3 million dollar contract. We got capspace. As I said, capspace is an asset, one we can spend on someone else. Someone else better or more suitable Quote Because that's exactly what I've said, right? That's exactly what I've been saying, right? Again your trying to mis-characterize my post. Your arguing against yourself. Again -- Edler, Hughes, Stecher, Tanev, all still here and you want Hutton back as well. Do you want to improve the D or not? If so, how do you improve it by bringing back the same players? Someone(s) HAVE to go. Quote I literally said, right before the part you bolded, (if you wanna actually go read it), that I don't blame management. We couldn't get anything because they tanked his value last year, then this year they relied upon him so heavily that his arbitration case is strong enough to get him a bigger deal than he's worth. Which is why teams weren't going to bite last minute. I don't think they were trying to trade him this season when they we're relying on him in a top 4 role. Soooo, you don't blame management, but they tanked his value and wore him out. But you don't blame them. Which one is it? Fact -- Hutton tanked his own value. If he was worth in the range of $4million he'd still be here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: 1. Hamhuis waived for Dallas 2. Teams would trade for him as a rental, and if they were interested in his UFA status then they would gladly take his rights. 3. Well they thought wrong about his contract status, if Benning "thought" he could get a deal done and he doesn't, it's bad asset management. Not to mention, Hutton has been proposed in trades on this forum more than a few times and they always have him garnering more in a trade than just a 4th/5th. I could probably look it up and find the same posters here defending the loss of Hutton saying he's worthless yet at one point had him in one of their proposals garnering a decent return. Who the hell cares what people on here proposes in a trade for Hutton, or any player? What a stupid argument. You sure seem to be stuck on this idea that we can force a trade with other teams. It doesn't mater what value we place on him, what matters is the value actual GMs put on players like Hutton. Deal with it. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Canucks Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Just now, The 5th Line said: Mhm. Hutton had absolutely zero value during the season. Gotcha So, you know what other GMs are thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: 1. Hamhuis waived for Dallas 2. Teams would trade for him as a rental, and if they were interested in his UFA status then they would gladly take his rights. 3. Well they thought wrong about his contract status, if Benning "thought" he could get a deal done and he doesn't, it's bad asset management. Not to mention, Hutton has been proposed in trades on this forum more than a few times and they always have him garnering more in a trade than just a 4th/5th. I could probably look it up and find the same posters here defending the loss of Hutton saying he's worthless yet at one point had him in one of their proposals garnering a decent return. 1 Hamhuis blocked the Washington deal, by the time he waived to Dallas they acquired Russell. Not everything is Benning’s fault. 2. If teams would take Hutton as a rental and he was very actively shopped why was he not moved then? 3. Hutton has arbitration rights and to qualify him would be a $4mil deal. Our defence needs a change and I fail to see how bringing back 5 of our top 6 is an improvement. And if losing Hutton for nothing is a product of that so be it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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