By sea and land Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I am not saying he can't, I just don't get all the hate. He has done more good than bad by far imho. So true. I like Jimbo a lot. He’s actually my favourite Canuck GM going back to the BIG Irishman. Jimbo tries things. I think he’s won way more than he’s lost when it comes to Canuck trades. The clear losing one was the first Guddy trade but I admit that I was wrong also. I thought we were getting a big strapping mean Dman with edge, nastiness and leadership. Almost like a right shooting Pronger but without the offence. I was wrong. Not only do I like where this team is headed, I also like Jimbo the man. Honest, humble, knowledgeable, and if anyone in here has ever heard a better laugh than Jimbo’s, I need to hear it pronto. As a long living true Canuck fan, loyal always and never waver, personalities matter to me. Yes it’s a business and put your feelings to the side because winning is all that matters. I agree, unless our players and coaches/management are bad dudes. I can’t cheer for bad dudes. Just look who we have; Bo, Brock, Pettersson, Hughes. These are good kids and our future is bright. Not only do I like what Benning is doing direction wise for the team, but I also really like him, the person. PS - We won the JT Miller trade also. Miller IS (never mind was) a first round player. He’ll be north of 20+ goals per year, bang, create ice, improve line mates numbers, skate with speed, protect pucks and lead. Go back from 2012-2018 and look at the players drafted 16-24th overall. Yes you’ll find some nice players but you’ll also find a lot of misses. JT won’t be an All Star but he is a guarantee. We know what he is. He is production and results. He’s proven. AND we don’t have to wait on our asset. Even if we miss the playoffs next year, Bolts have to wait 2 years to draft a kid and then 2-3 more years (most likely) for the kid to crack the lineup and make a contribution. Our asset makes a contribution once camp opens in a few months. Also, we have time. We can recoup that pick within 2-4 years in my opinion. 26 years old, cost certainty, and our players like Bo and Petey are liking this addition a lot. Good pick up Jimbo. We won the trade. Go Canucks! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, By sea and land said: So true. I like Jimbo a lot. He’s actually my favourite Canuck GM going back to the BIG Irishman. Jimbo tries things. I think he’s won way more than he’s lost when it comes to Canuck trades. The clear losing one was the first Guddy trade but I admit that I was wrong also. I thought we were getting a big strapping mean Dman with edge, nastiness and leadership. Almost like a right shooting Pronger but without the offence. I was wrong. Not only do I like where this team is headed, I also like Jimbo the man. Honest, humble, knowledgeable, and if anyone in here has ever heard a better laugh than Jimbo’s, I need to hear it pronto. As a long living true Canuck fan, loyal always and never waver, personalities matter to me. Yes it’s a business and put your feelings to the side because winning is all that matters. I agree, unless our players and coaches/management are bad dudes. I can’t cheer for bad dudes. Just look who we have; Bo, Brock, Pettersson, Hughes. These are good kids and our future is bright. Not only do I like what Benning is doing direction wise for the team, but I also really like him, the person. PS - We won the JT Miller trade also. Miller IS (never mind was) a first round player. He’ll be north of 20+ goals per year, bang, create ice, improve line mates numbers, skate with speed, protect pucks and lead. Go back from 2012-2018 and look at the players drafted 16-24th overall. Yes you’ll find some nice players but you’ll also find a lot of misses. JT won’t be an All Star but he is a guarantee. We know what he is. He is production and results. He’s proven. AND we don’t have to wait on our asset. Even if we miss the playoffs next year, Bolts have to wait 2 years to draft a kid and then 2-3 more years (most likely) for the kid to crack the lineup and make a contribution. Our asset makes a contribution once camp opens in a few months. Also, we have time. We can recoup that pick within 2-4 years in my opinion. 26 years old, cost certainty, and our players like Bo and Petey are liking this addition a lot. Good pick up Jimbo. We won the trade. Go Canucks! like Jimbo a lot. He’s actually my favourite Canuck GM going back to the BIG Irishman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Miller needs to work on his shot. 13 goals last year, he will get more chances with EP. The 1st we traded is worth more because JB is great at drafting. I don't think we are a playoff team yet. And if we do squeak into the post season I don't think we have a strong chemistry/mix of players for the battle of the NHL playoffs. When we are at the bottom looking up that 1st round pick could be another Brock/EP/Byram type of player we need. Miller is great but I just think the timing is a bit premature. All in all JB can recoup the differences if he takes care of our extra bodies and turns some magic with our cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Moose Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 5 hours ago, VegasCanuck said: Most of the negative is about the one trade. Here's my take on the trade: If Miller was a RFA, and we signed him to a offer sheet for 5.25 million, the compensation would be, oddly enough, a 1st and a 3rd. This is as per Capfriendly: https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator So, we got a guy that we value, who is under contract at a reasonable rate for the next 4 years, with cap certainty, for pretty much EXACTLY what it would have cost us to Offer sheet him. I believe putting a goalie in was to make contracts match and to give us more room to work through to free agency, in case additional opportunities arise. So, I would say that this trade, regardless of all the bellyaching, at the end of the day, is fair, established value, and considering the low cap, its the type of player and cost certainty, that other teams at the draft would have also been looking for. I've yet to hear ONE person who would be qualified to ACTUALLY run an NHL team, give him negative feedback on the move. All the negative press has been from guys who get paid if they can get more people reading their stories, and bad press gets them more of that! People are now losing their minds over Hutton possibly walking. Hutton at 4.5m is disgusting. Can't &^@#ing win with these people 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 6 hours ago, hammertime said: if we go back to JBs biggest blunder the Eriksson signing The Eriksson signing is just a small part of a big blunder, which was the path he chose at the start. When he was hired he had assets to use for a rebuild of this team. Instead, he "went for it" signing expensive free agents and letting those assets walk for nothing or age and lose value. Instead of bringing in draft picks, he traded them away to compete. Instead of competing, we had the worst team in the league over that 3 year period. A waste of assets to accomplish an epic fail. Eriksson is just a part of that mess. Luckily, that epic fail led to high draft picks so we have Petey & Hughes to build around. Benning's biggest win, is installing a great scouting staff. So if you're looking at players that could pan out and ignore how we got here, you can definately look at things from a positive angle. But it's just silly for people to say they don't understand why he gets hate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I’m sure Jim has had his eyes on JT Miller for years. With the Boston Bruins Jim probably scouted, interviewed JT and watched tons of his games that draft year. I trust JB. I’m differently liking the what’s happening with this team. A playoff team is assembling. Jake V in the playoffs will also show you why Jim drafted him so high. This team has winning Character EP40 and now Podkolzin both have winning intensity, Bo also. all the media will say Canucks won’t make the playoffs before the season starts. But Canucks will make the playoffs next season. The Forward line up is solid all four lines aren’t bad , goaltending is solid, the D is a ? Which UFA do we get and also there’s a ? with 20mins of Quinn Hughes difference per game. i Do think outside of Canuckland people will be surprised at how good this team is. Toronto will never say it tho. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: Over the past few days I have been shocked at the local and national media and the fans for the negative pile-on of Jim Benning. He has made some bad moves, yes. He has made some bad trades, yes. Name 1 GM who hasn't. He inherited a team that had Brendan Gaunce as it's only possible prospect who may ever make the NHL. The drafting of the 10 years before him was the worst in the league. He had aging superstars that he was not allowed to trade. The owner stepped in when he did try to clear out some FA's for picks(Hamhuis). Thanks to the stupid NHL lottery system he has fallen backwards in every draft he has picked in. He had Bo Horvat and a bunch of old guys with NMC's. Under him we have done the following: Brought along Horvat, Boeser, and Peterson into an enviable young core. Developed Markstrom into a number 1 and Demko to the point of challenging and Dipietro looking like a great future option. Picked up Baertschi, Granlund, Leivo, Stecher, Goldobin to attempt to fill in the missing generation of Canuck draft picks. WE have a great prospect pool quickly moving to nhl readiness Defence with realistice chance at NHL Hughes(Top 2 D) this year Juolevi(Top 3 D) later this year Sautner (4-6 D) ready Brisebois(4-6 D) ready Woo (Top 4) 1-2 years Tryamkin (Top 4) 1 year Rafferty (4-6 D) close Rathbone(2nd pair) 2 years Utunen (5-7th D) 2-3 years Forwards with realistic chance at NHL Gaudette (top 9) now Podkolzin (top 6) 2 years Lind (2-3 Line) 1-2 years Hoglander (2nd line) 1-2 years Madden (2-3 line) 2 years Gadjovich (3-4th line) 2 years Lockwood (depth forward) 2 years Goaltenders with a realistic chance at the NHL Dipietro (Starter) 4 years Kielly (backup) 2 years He has now added JT Miller who fits perfectly in our top 6. So we have great long term depth in quality goaltenders. We have 4-5 our our long term top 6 forwards. We have some excellent bottom 6 forwards. We have some quality Defensemen and are shopping for FA's. From where he started and with the restrictions he has had, I think he deserves much better coverage. Chiarelli started with McDavid, RNH and Draisatl and destroyed the team. Shanaplan is now falling apart despite having much better luck in the lottery and having the top FA centre available for years fall in their laps. They have terrible defence and are losing 2 of the ones they have. They have 6 million in space to improve their blueline and signe 10mil+ Marner after losing out in the 1st round. They are about to have 35$million committed to 3 forwards for the next 7 years. Anyway, I know I will probably get skewered. No I am not Jim Benning's biggest fan. I think he has made some bad trades. I just don't get the overwhelming $h!tstorm that the media and fans seem to want to inflict on him. Post of the Summer if not the year... Incredible is had to said but thank you @Dixon Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Maketherightmove said: He's a big boy he can take it. Maybe so....but the rest of us can't. Dixon is right. Its totally unwarranted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeneedLumme Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 9 hours ago, Sbriggs said: Thank you I was hoping someone would set this guy straight, glad it wasn't me I wouldn't have been so kind I was thinking the same. I would have said similar things, but my post would have been liberally sprinkled with words like: troll, simpleton, brain dead, willfully, blatantly dishonest, etc, leaving me at risk of getting my knuckles rapped by the mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The only moves Benning can be criticized for are Eriksson and Guddy; however, imho the onus is on Eriksson and Guddy. Those two shat the bed hard and never lived up to their ability and contracts. The players simply did not come as advertised, and I, for one, believe the players should be blamed in those situations. At least Guddy admitted it was his own fault in play whereas LE is playing the blame game. All one has to do is ask themselves how long a GM would be out of a job, if they got fired, to know how good they are. Benning would have another job in a heartbeat, which is why I believe he's not even close to being on the hot seat. How long before Gillis was re-hired? Benning absolutely does not get enough love. I mean, look at our team and prospect pool. He's revamped them in less than a handful of years, all while staying competitive and progressing. We have a championship core in the oven that is so easy to see, yet I'm left smh countless times on CDC reading so many posts and the vitriol spewed saying otherwise - I feel like I'm in some sort of Seinfeld bizzaro land on here most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vannuck59 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: I am not saying he can't, I just don't get all the hate. He has done more good than bad by far imho. Yes Has he done enough thats the question , Do the fans think he has done enough or could he have done more. We shall see. I for one think his rebuild should have been just that gut it and start over, the lack of second round picks and the lack of Defense is what concerns me. I give him a solid B rating could he do more yes I think so . Do I like where we are at yes , Do I think JB will bring us a cup ? Nope Its been 50 years and still waiting cheering on the future young stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aqua59 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: Over the past few days I have been shocked at the local and national media and the fans for the negative pile-on of Jim Benning. He has made some bad moves, yes. He has made some bad trades, yes. Name 1 GM who hasn't. He inherited a team that had Brendan Gaunce as it's only possible prospect who may ever make the NHL. The drafting of the 10 years before him was the worst in the league. He had aging superstars that he was not allowed to trade. The owner stepped in when he did try to clear out some FA's for picks(Hamhuis). Thanks to the stupid NHL lottery system he has fallen backwards in every draft he has picked in. He had Bo Horvat and a bunch of old guys with NMC's. Under him we have done the following: Brought along Horvat, Boeser, and Peterson into an enviable young core. Developed Markstrom into a number 1 and Demko to the point of challenging and Dipietro looking like a great future option. Picked up Baertschi, Granlund, Leivo, Stecher, Goldobin to attempt to fill in the missing generation of Canuck draft picks. WE have a great prospect pool quickly moving to nhl readiness Defence with realistice chance at NHL Hughes(Top 2 D) this year Juolevi(Top 3 D) later this year Sautner (4-6 D) ready Brisebois(4-6 D) ready Woo (Top 4) 1-2 years Tryamkin (Top 4) 1 year Rafferty (4-6 D) close Rathbone(2nd pair) 2 years Utunen (5-7th D) 2-3 years Forwards with realistic chance at NHL Gaudette (top 9) now Podkolzin (top 6) 2 years Lind (2-3 Line) 1-2 years Hoglander (2nd line) 1-2 years Madden (2-3 line) 2 years Gadjovich (3-4th line) 2 years Lockwood (depth forward) 2 years Goaltenders with a realistic chance at the NHL Dipietro (Starter) 4 years Kielly (backup) 2 years He has now added JT Miller who fits perfectly in our top 6. So we have great long term depth in quality goaltenders. We have 4-5 our our long term top 6 forwards. We have some excellent bottom 6 forwards. We have some quality Defensemen and are shopping for FA's. From where he started and with the restrictions he has had, I think he deserves much better coverage. Chiarelli started with McDavid, RNH and Draisatl and destroyed the team. Shanaplan is now falling apart despite having much better luck in the lottery and having the top FA centre available for years fall in their laps. They have terrible defence and are losing 2 of the ones they have. They have 6 million in space to improve their blueline and signe 10mil+ Marner after losing out in the 1st round. They are about to have 35$million committed to 3 forwards for the next 7 years. Anyway, I know I will probably get skewered. No I am not Jim Benning's biggest fan. I think he has made some bad trades. I just don't get the overwhelming $h!tstorm that the media and fans seem to want to inflict on him. Great post. Just remember most fans have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vannuck59 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, aqua59 said: Great post. Just remember most fans have no clue. Remember its the fans that pay the bills wanting more and winning is what the fans want . All the fans have an opinion and have the right to express them. Fans live and die by their team . If JB brings a Cup to Vancouver the fans would revere him. But for now they will criticize him ,its their right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 13 hours ago, Dixon Ward said: Over the past few days I have been shocked at the local and national media and the fans for the negative pile-on of Jim Benning. He has made some bad moves, yes. He has made some bad trades, yes. Name 1 GM who hasn't. He inherited a team that had Brendan Gaunce as it's only possible prospect who may ever make the NHL. The drafting of the 10 years before him was the worst in the league. He had aging superstars that he was not allowed to trade. The owner stepped in when he did try to clear out some FA's for picks(Hamhuis). Thanks to the stupid NHL lottery system he has fallen backwards in every draft he has picked in. He had Bo Horvat and a bunch of old guys with NMC's. Under him we have done the following: Brought along Horvat, Boeser, and Peterson into an enviable young core. Developed Markstrom into a number 1 and Demko to the point of challenging and Dipietro looking like a great future option. Picked up Baertschi, Granlund, Leivo, Stecher, Goldobin to attempt to fill in the missing generation of Canuck draft picks. WE have a great prospect pool quickly moving to nhl readiness Defence with realistice chance at NHL Hughes(Top 2 D) this year Juolevi(Top 3 D) later this year Sautner (4-6 D) ready Brisebois(4-6 D) ready Woo (Top 4) 1-2 years Tryamkin (Top 4) 1 year Rafferty (4-6 D) close Rathbone(2nd pair) 2 years Utunen (5-7th D) 2-3 years Forwards with realistic chance at NHL Gaudette (top 9) now Podkolzin (top 6) 2 years Lind (2-3 Line) 1-2 years Hoglander (2nd line) 1-2 years Madden (2-3 line) 2 years Gadjovich (3-4th line) 2 years Lockwood (depth forward) 2 years Goaltenders with a realistic chance at the NHL Dipietro (Starter) 4 years Kielly (backup) 2 years He has now added JT Miller who fits perfectly in our top 6. So we have great long term depth in quality goaltenders. We have 4-5 our our long term top 6 forwards. We have some excellent bottom 6 forwards. We have some quality Defensemen and are shopping for FA's. From where he started and with the restrictions he has had, I think he deserves much better coverage. Chiarelli started with McDavid, RNH and Draisatl and destroyed the team. Shanaplan is now falling apart despite having much better luck in the lottery and having the top FA centre available for years fall in their laps. They have terrible defence and are losing 2 of the ones they have. They have 6 million in space to improve their blueline and signe 10mil+ Marner after losing out in the 1st round. They are about to have 35$million committed to 3 forwards for the next 7 years. Anyway, I know I will probably get skewered. No I am not Jim Benning's biggest fan. I think he has made some bad trades. I just don't get the overwhelming $h!tstorm that the media and fans seem to want to inflict on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 hours ago, KeslerWho? said: People are now losing their minds over Hutton possibly walking. Hutton at 4.5m is disgusting. Can't &^@#ing win with these people I know, right! I could be wrong, but I think Hutton will be back. I think they will talk to a few teams, gauge his value, find out its around 3 million, and choose to resign in Vancouver. Can't see teams spending too much more than that this year with the cap so tight. Especially when the word is, it will only go up by about 2 million again next summer. GMs have to make smart decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, vannuck59 said: Remember its the fans that pay the bills wanting more and winning is what the fans want . All the fans have an opinion and have the right to express them. Fans live and die by their team . If JB brings a Cup to Vancouver the fans would revere him. But for now they will criticize him ,its their right. I don't think anyone is arguing fans don't have the right, but rather than they're flat out ignorant with their often baseless (or at minimum misguided/skewed) opinions. There seems to be two consistent narratives among Canucks fans: 1) One that sees things in a realistic way and will praise or critique as necessary; and 2) One that incessantly sees things negatively. I agree that if JB brings a cup to Vancouver everyone will revere him, but what's sad is that the latter mentioned will b & m until he does, all while missing all the positives along the way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18W-40C-6W Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, CreamCheese said: Look forward to your rebuttal A. We won’t have cap issues I think you need to work on your math. B. You clearly don’t watch HOW Ehlers and Nylander play in the playoffs and understand why the way they play translates into weak production / contribution. They play permitter hockey with talented players. That works in the reg season. JV has improved every year as a pro in ALL facets of the game. If you watch playoff hockey, you’d know that a kid with his skill set contributes a lot more to a TEAM than 2 players who disappear, and he can play in his own end, and he’s payed 1.5 mil vs $8 to disappear. C. McCann breakout! Much like Grabner he’s been traded twice now. And he’s on Pittsburgh. Maybe consider the team he’s playing on. Funny how McCann is ready for a breakout but of course JV isn’t when they’ve put up close to similar numbers! D. Some say OJ won’t become a top 4? Who? Sami Salo who coached him in Finland and agrees with me? Or internet trolls on this site and hockey forums? I tend to put more stock in the evaluation of pros. E. Again, you whine about money - are you paying? Do we have cap issues, did we miss out signing anyone because of it? No, No and No. it has no bearing on anything how much they were paid. You’re looking to complain about JB and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. F. We will have cap issues? Uhh. No we won’t, I guess you don’t understand how players age out and we don’t re-sign them or trade them? And as a result, contracts come off the books, and are replaced with young guys on ELCs and cheaper contracts. I’d happily see your mathematical analysis of this future cap crunch you’re talking about lol!!! Easy to say things, much harder to prove them isn’t it? G. Again, lottery pick? Hmm so this team is going to not miss the playoffs this year, and miss it next? Odd concern if you look at the way the team is constructed. I’d think the year after next, given Bo, Petey, Boeser, Hughes, OJ, Tryamkin, Jake, Miller, have a year more experience under their belts, we should be more than ready for a playoff spot. But then again, maybe I think teams are here to win not tank to keep acquiring picks! Looking forward to seeing the mathematical analysis of the cap crunch you’re talking about! Edited June 25, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18W-40C-6W Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said: I am not going to reply to all of them because most of it is just poor excuses, but number 8 takes the cake. This is the most ridiculous justification I ever seen. Lol Somehow losing a lottery pick is okay if we have bigger issues?! What?! If we have bigger issues in 2021, the last thing we would need is to lose a lottery pick. What lottery pick? Can you see the future? If so what’s tomorrow’s 6-49 numbers bro! JB haters keep saying lottery pick like somehow we are going to make the playoffs this year and then not the following and it will be a lottery pick. Meanwhile, reasonable and knowledgeable hockey fans can look at our roster, what’s coming (likely UFA RD, Tryamkin in March and maybe Podkolzin early, OJ), and recognize that the way the team is constructed, it’s actually more likely that if they miss the playoffs, it would this coming season and not the following. Moreover, with Petey, Bo, Boeser, Hughes 2 yrs older, thinking those guys will miss is a bit odd. But that would take a rational, objective, knowledgeable hockey fan. Edited June 25, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptKirk888 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 9 hours ago, JamesB said: Most fan boards have a strong home bias and that is particularly true of CDC. I am not sure why, but I feel compelled to argue against some of the points that have been raised even though my view will be a "contrarian" (i.e. unpopular) view as far as CDC is concerned. Hi James, I wanted to let you know before I respond that I consider your posts to be most unbiased (if a bit long) and very succinct. Your answers are always well thought out and your analysis is quite often on the mark. 1. I don't believe there is any particular media bias or fan bias against Vancouver. Most fans and most media personalities favor their home teams but I would say that, on average, people (fans and media and players) in other cities are more positive about Vancouver than they are about most cities or most teams. When I have travelled around I find that most people are very positive about Vancouver as a city and are pretty generous in their assessments of the Canucks. Certainly people go out of their way to say nice things about EP, about the Sedins, and about Boeser. The reason we don't see more positive things about the Canucks in the media is that the Canucks have not provided enough to be positive about. Generally, I would agree their is no fan bias from other markets. Of course if you go to other hockey boards, you will find negative comments re the Canucks and Vancouver but that is to be expected as there are 'trolls' everywhere. Media bias? Maybe not, in so much in that the media responds negatively to the team and city, but on the other hand, they typically exalt other teams (Toronto) and ignore us. Your second point, we have not done enough, while true these past 4 years, not true of the Team's history. Although we have not won a cup (yet) the team has had very competitive years and has been a top team in the league many times. I bring the past into play, because when a team is respected or revered by people/fans outside of the city in which they play, those people usually take into account the team's history and prior success. The Canadiens for example have not been a great team the past decade (hot and cold) but are still considered great based on the history. (In no way am I comparing the Canucks to the Canadiens). 2. Further to point 2, the Canuck cumulative performance has been very poor in the past 4 years. They rank second to last in the NHL in winning percentage, which is not good, but many people think that goal differential is actually a better measure of performance. I just checked CORISCA. Over the last four years the Canucks have the worst goal differential in the NHL -- dead last. True, and true. But a result of an old tired team with a few new pieces. See #3. 3. Benning supporters will say that he is "doing fine", that "everyone makes mistakes", "rebuilding takes time" etc. And people can defend particular moves. But, overall, the Canucks have a terrible record during the Benning regime. And recent Stanley Cup winners (St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, etc.) did not go through as bad a stretch as the Canucks have recently. Yes, the cupboard was quite bare when Benning took over (but Horvat was in it, as were Markstrom, Edler and Tanev). The Canucks had a weak pipeline, but not the worst pipeline in the league. Even taking into account where the team was when Benning took over, the team has under-performed since then. The best year was Benning's first, when the team was mostly an inherited team. Since then, Benning has made many moves but, aside from the three excellent draft picks (Boeser, EP, Hughes) the team consists mainly of "complementary" players or "role" players rather than guys who would be core players on a good team. Yes, he has made mistakes, yes all managers make mistakes. Yes the team has a terrible record during the Benning regime (He managed to get one decent season out of them after the Torts fiasco, but they were not getting any younger). The team that Benning took over was on the downturn, old core, no young prospects (damn close to being the worst pipeline in the league) . He has since improved our pipeline substantially with astute drafting and those "role" players that every team needs to back up the stars on the team. I don't think anyone on this forum will say Pat Quinn was a terrible GM, but he would be roasted here today because during his first 4 years as GM (beginning 88-89 taking over a tired team with an aging core from the 82 cup run) the Canucks had, in order, these abysmal seasons - 59 pts, 74 pts, 65 pts and 64 pts. It took until 1991-92 (his 5th year) for the 'new' canucks to emerge with a 96 point year (which by the way, was good enough for 1st overall in the Smythe Division - would barely make the playoffs in this era). 4. The reason Benning is taking a lot of criticism over the Miller trade is that it looks like a bad trade. From Tampa's point of view they traded away a guy who is a pretty good player but dropped to their 4th line by the end of the season. He was being paid too much for bottom 6 foward and Tampa needed to clear some cap space. They succeeded in clearing cap space and trading a guy who, from their point of view, was a bottom 6 winger, and they got a first round pick and a high third round pick in return. That must look good from Tampa's point of view. It looks like a fair trade in most people's eyes, and not just the 'biased homers' here. You do realize the top tier talent that was above Miller in Tampa, right? They won the Presidents trophy and tied a win record. That's why their 4th line can have players of Miller's quality. In a mostly defensive role on that 4th line he scored enough that he would have been 4th best for points on the Canucks this year. I have had many people mention (on this forum, biased and unbiased posters) that a forward that scores 50-60 pnts is a 2nd line, bordering on 1st line. Yet, Miller has done this and you (or Tampa) qualify him as a third/fourth liner? Ridiculous, Tampa just has amazing depth. Yes they needed to shed cap, but the player they traded should not be devalued because of that. The Canucks paid fair price for a good player, look at comparables around the league. 5.. One more thing about giving up first round picks. About 90% of the optimism regarding the Canucks comes from four recent first round picks: Horvat, Boeser, EP, and Hughes (and now maybe Podkolzin). You don't hit on every first round pick but you need elite players to contend for a Cup. Your best chance of getting elite players is with first round picks, especially high first round picks. Yes, Miller is as good as the average first round pick but he is not an elite player and probably not even a core player on a good team. And the Canucks have given up a decent chance of getting an elite player in future by giving up the pick. Especially high first round picks, you nailed it there. But I would argue that the Canucks make the playoffs by 2021 and that pick becomes a lower first. We were lucky to get Boeser at 23, but EP, Horvat, Hughes (and Podkolzin) all in the top 10. Before the retractors jump on this, yes many teams have found gems in the late first, 2nd round and beyond, but that is rare and just plain luck. Before you compile that list of 20 or 30 players, remember that in the time frame, thousands of players were drafted. I would agree Miller is not elite (but potential to be better, if not very good). I disagree with your 'core' assessment tho. I think he would be a core piece on many teams and his skill was not relied on or utilized effectively in Tampa due, again, to their depth. The chance that a bottom first round pick becomes elite is low. That pick may be part of an NHL roster, but of no impact. Read this excerpt: Early 2013, Jim Parcels, a former Peterborough Petes trainer and Ken Campbell, a writer for The Hockey News, co-authored Selling the Dream: How Hockey Parents and Their Kids Are Paying the Price for Our National Obsession. In the book, Parcels breaks down the odds of a kid from Ontario making the NHL. Out of the select 30,000 players they studied, 48 were drafted by an NHL team, and 39 of those 48 actually signed contracts with an NHL team. Of that 39, only 32 actually played in the NHL, and only 15 of those players played more than one full season. And finally, of that 15, only six played the minimum 400 games to qualify for the NHL Player Pension. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-hard-is-it-to-make-it_b_5803634 Good post though James. My answers are just like yours, opinion sprinkled with facts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, 18W-40C-6W said: What lottery pick? Can you see the future? If so what’s tomorrow’s 6-49 numbers bro! Cream puff’s go to guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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