Luongo vs Bure

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, Boeserker said:

Luongo doesn't make it into the HoF without the Stellar Canuck teams he played on. McClean remains equally legendary and arguably more so when you factor in the underdog teams he played on and the 1994 run had MacClean as a Hero, the whole way through. 7uongo on, the other hand, is a Legend as well but was always a Legend in his own mind and never won anything to back it up.

 

Edge goes to McClean.

 

None of the Canucks should have their jersey's retired but now that Naslund is up there, the door is wide open I suppose.

 

As far as actual hockey player goes, Bure is head and shoulders above every Canuck who has ever worn one of the dozens of jersey variations in Vancouver. If you want to advance stat with Smiliness, Likability, Ability to speak English, Hair-do points and Twitter scores, then ya, Luongo is your man.

Honestly, I argue that Smyl set the bar... the bar was set too low.  Yes, he was a great heart and soul player as a captain of the Canucks, but the moment his jersey went up into the rafters, every long-term captain got their jersey retired as well.  Give it another 50 years, and we'll have another 5 to 8 jerseys in the rafters. 

 

It's kinda sad when you look at the jerseys retired in other arenas compared to ours.  True legends of the game vs the 'warm fuzzy' feelin' captains of our franchise.

 

There really should only be 3 jerseys in the rafters by the end of next season (10, 33, 22).

[Kevin Biestra]

12 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Just my opinion: Bure, Smyl, Naslund and Luongo should all be in the Ring of Honour. The only jersey numbers that should be hanging in Rogers Arena are Linden, Daniel and Henrik. 

 

I can entertain arguments against everyone you listed but Smyl.  Guy was the original Linden.

[-AJ-]

25 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said:

Lose that disrespect about Luongo. McLean isn't even in the same league as Lu. Lu is a top 5 goalie of all time. His stats were amazing on the bad Florida teams and before we were a good team.

 

I agree there are players up there that don't deserve it.

 

Luongo deserves it as one of the best goaltenders of all time, the best goalie in Canucks history and very well could be the best goalie we ever have.

I love Lu and agree that he's one of the all-time greats, but I wouldn't put him in the top five. 

[MrCanuck94]

9 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I love Lu and agree that he's one of the all-time greats, but I wouldn't put him in the top five. 

2nd in all time games played (longevity says a lot about a goalies ability), 3rd all time in wins and 11th in all time save % (which would be higher if you take out goalies that have played less than 500 games).

 

Imagine his numbers if he actually had a good team for most of his career.

[Kevin Biestra]

40 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Honestly, I argue that Smyl set the bar... the bar was set too low.  Yes, he was a great heart and soul player as a captain of the Canucks, but the moment his jersey went up into the rafters, every long-term captain got their jersey retired as well.  Give it another 50 years, and we'll have another 5 to 8 jerseys in the rafters. 

 

It's kinda sad when you look at the jerseys retired in other arenas compared to ours.  True legends of the game vs the 'warm fuzzy' feelin' captains of our franchise.

 

There really should only be 3 jerseys in the rafters by the end of next season (10, 33, 22).

Smyl retired as the Canucks career leader in literally everything.  In addition to captaining their only Cup run in their first 20+ years.

[Alflives]

Loui was our goalie (by far the best we ever had) during the best seasons of our team.  I think his number gets put up with the twins, but not as quickly.  It will be several years, much like how it was with Pavel. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

36 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I can entertain arguments against everyone you listed but Smyl.  Guy was the original Linden.

In terms of heart....yes.  Linden actually had above average skills.  This isn't a slight against Smyl (who as like Trev, gave it his all every shift).  Linden played wing with all his minor league career.  He was shifted to center at the NHL level and still played reasonably well as a center.  Linden was the new improved model of Smyl who could play all forward positions

 

Might be my bias showing but I thought he was among the better forwards for Team Canada in Nagano 

Edited June 27, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Kevin Biestra]

22 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

In terms of heart....yes.  Linden actually had above average skills.  This isn't a slight against Smyl (who as like Trev, gave it his all every shift).  Linden played wing with all his minor league career.  He was shifted to center at the NHL level and still played reasonably well as a center.  Linden was the new improved model of Smyl who could play all forward positions

 

Might be my bias showing but I thought he was among the better forwards for Team Canada in Nagano 

 

Linden was the only player who gave a crap in the final game in Nagano.  Best Canadian on the ice.

 

As for Smyl, he was "above average" as well.  Guy had 88 points one season, better than Linden's top year of 80.  His 38 goals was also better than Trevor's best of 33.

[HKSR]

26 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Smyl retired as the Canucks career leader in literally everything.  In addition to captaining their only Cup run in their first 20+ years.

That shouldn't be the justification when the franchise was less than 20 years old when his career was winding down.  He also only had a career total of 673 points through playing in the highest scoring era in the history of the NHL (the 1980s).  Do I value Smyl as a heart and soul player in Canucks history?  Of course!  Do I think his number should have been retired?  No.

 

Like I said, the bar was set quite low when Smyl had his jersey retired.  He should be in the Ring of Honour.  I'd argue the same about Linden and Naslund as well.

 

The way I see it, other than in Vancouver, the NHL rarely ever brings up the names of Smyl, Linden or Naslund anymore.  Bure on the other hand is still a name that surfaces because he's one of the greatest goal scorers to ever play the game.  Hence his HHOF induction. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Linden was the only player who gave a crap in the final game in Nagano.  Best Canadian on the ice.

 

As for Smyl, he was "above average" as well.  Guy had 88 points one season, better than Linden's top year of 80.  His 38 goals was also better than Trevor's best of 33.

Trev had more responsibilities on the ice being the center of the line for a good chunk of his career.  In any event, we could’ve used EITHER guy back in 2011.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That shouldn't be the justification when the franchise was less than 20 years old when his career was winding down.  He also only had a career total of 673 points through playing in the highest scoring era in the history of the NHL (the 1980s).  Do I value Smyl as a heart and soul player in Canucks history?  Of course!  Do I think his number should have been retired?  No.

 

Like I said, the bar was set quite low when Smyl had his jersey retired.  He should be in the Ring of Honour.  I'd argue the same about Linden and Naslund as well.

 

The way I see it, other than in Vancouver, the NHL rarely ever brings up the names of Smyl, Linden or Naslund anymore.  Bure on the other hand is still a name that surfaces because he's one of the greatest goal scorers to ever play the game.  Hence his HHOF induction. 

Nazzy was for a couple seasons arguably THE most lethal sniper in the entire league.  Easily elite level at his peak.

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Nazzy was for a couple seasons arguably THE most lethal sniper in the entire league.  Easily elite level at his peak.

Not discrediting Naslund either, but really, who outside of Vancouver even mentions his name anymore?  There have been many great players that have played the game... but there are only a select number that make a lasting impression across the league.  Those are the guys that deserve to have their numbers retired.  The rest deserve to have their team recognize what they brought to the franchise. 

 

Bure deserves it.  I can also assure you that the Sedins will be talked about 20-30 years down the road simply because they were twins that won Art Ross trophies and Hart trophies.

Edited June 27, 2019 by HKSR

[NewbieCanuckFan]

13 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Not discrediting Naslund either, but really, who outside of Vancouver even mentions his name anymore?  There have been many great players that have played the game... but there are only a select number that make a lasting impression across the league.  Those are the guys that deserve to have their numbers retired.  The rest deserve to have their team recognize what they brought to the franchise. 

 

Bure deserves it.  I can also assure you that the Sedins will be talked about 20-30 years down the road simply because they were twins that won Art Ross trophies and Hart trophies.

Can’t say I disagree with completely though I do want to add...

 

Bure had Capt. Kirk

Sedins (at their peak) had Bobby Lou

Nazzy (at his peak) had TrashCanDan.

[HKSR]

18 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Can’t say I disagree with completely though I do want to add...

 

Bure had Capt. Kirk

Sedins (at their peak) had Bobby Lou

Nazzy (at his peak) had TrashCanDan.

OUCH... Poor Dan...

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Luongo is one of the best goalies of all time & most of his best years were here in Vancouver.

 

Hes one of the greatest Canucks of all time. His acquisition changed everything for this franchise.

 

I voted yes. Should absolutely be retired IMO.

This ^^^^^

 

His acquisition put an end to the goalie graveyard. 

[Krzysl]

Canucks are the easiest team in the nhl to get your number retired. It’s quite pathetic actually. The only real retire numbers we should have is , Stan , linden and the sedin. Even that is far fetched. Sedins I would argue are the two most deserving. If we retire Lou number then we might aswell retire Edler number too.

[IBatch]

12 hours ago, Krzysl said:

Canucks are the easiest team in the nhl to get your number retired. It’s quite pathetic actually. The only real retire numbers we should have is , Stan , linden and the sedin. Even that is far fetched. Sedins I would argue are the two most deserving. If we retire Lou number then we might aswell retire Edler number too.

OTT might be easier...or just as easy.   It’s funny the see Stanley Cup banners in their rafters, taking credit for their namesakes accomplishments almost 100 years ago.  And some of those players too.

 

Then go watch a game in MTL...which is something everyone should do if they get the chance, just to see the legends statues outside, and the fire hazard hanging from their rafters...a lot of numbers retired and deservingly so, pretty sure all or almost all in the HHOF....along with 23 cup banners, not even sure if they bother with division champions but it’s hard to see them all even when your in the nosebleeds because you get blocked by what’s in front of you..

 

I get that your barn should put someone up there, and it’s not like we’ve gone overboard...as far as Näslund he was the best LW and a top two or three player in the league for a few years...Bure and the Sedins makes sense....but so does Linden for sure rLuongo?  Maybe too.  Definitely the best we’ve ever had and without him no presidents trophies.  

 

Luongo is not a top five goalie all-time...top twenty yes.   Take away the shoot-out wins and make them ties for a proper comparison to guys whom played before him same with so losses.  Think you will find what Sawchuk did, Roy, Broduer, Hasek, Plante, Parent, Dryden etc a lot more impressive...he will get the HHOF call I have no doubt,  but isn’t really any better or worse then Lundqvist is, or Price for that matter.   

 

Still he is one of ours, a former captain and the best we’ve ever had...retiring a 1 is not something to take lightly but if it might be a long time before anyone breaks the team records he made while here, in relatively short order too.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

OTT might be easier...or just as easy.   It’s funny the see Stanley Cup banners in their rafters, taking credit for their namesakes accomplishments almost 100 years ago.  And some of those players too.

 

Then go watch a game in MTL...which is something everyone should do if they get the chance, just to see the legends statues outside, and the fire hazard hanging from their rafters...a lot of numbers retired and deservingly so, pretty sure all or almost all in the HHOF....along with 23 cup banners, not even sure if they bother with division champions but it’s hard to see them all even when your in the nosebleeds because you get blocked by what’s in front of you..

 

I get that your barn should put someone up there, and it’s not like we’ve gone overboard...as far as Näslund he was the best LW and a top two or three player in the league for a few years...Bure and the Sedins makes sense....but so does Linden for sure rLuongo?  Maybe too.  Definitely the best we’ve ever had and without him no presidents trophies.  

 

Luongo is not a top five goalie all-time...top twenty yes.   Take away the shoot-out wins and make them ties for a proper comparison to guys whom played before him same with so losses.  Think you will find what Sawchuk did, Roy, Broduer, Hasek, Plante, Parent, Dryden etc a lot more impressive...he will get the HHOF call I have no doubt,  but isn’t really any better or worse then Lundqvist is, or Price for that matter.   

 

Still he is one of ours, a former captain and the best we’ve ever had...retiring a 1 is not something to take lightly but if it might be a long time before anyone breaks the team records he made while here, in relatively short order too.

Who does Ottawa have retired other than Alfredsson (who seriously deserves it with his 1100+ games played and 1100+ pts in a Sens jersey)? 

Alfredsson sets their bar where it should be.  Smyl set ours at 896 games played and 673 points lol.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Who does Ottawa have retired other than Alfredsson (who seriously deserves it with his 1100+ games played and 1100+ pts in a Sens jersey)? 

Alfredsson sets their bar where it should be.  Smyl set ours at 896 games played and 673 points lol.

EK.  And that’s it.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

EK.  And that’s it.

Huh?  You mean Erik Karlsson?  Last I checked, he's still playing lol...