[Discussion] Aqualini and Benning Missing the mark

[J.I.A.H.N]

As most of you know, I have been a huge supporter of Jim Benning, but I think they have missed the mark.

 

The Canucks, have decided to compete for a playoff spot, which in my opinion they will not do. They will come closer, but in the end, I do not see any of the top teams getting weaker, in fact teams like Arizona, Chicago and Edmonton, now have some cap room to add, so there is some concern they will be stronger, that is not to even mention Colorado being 1 year better, with their own prospects coming of age. The addition of Maker cancels out the addition of Hughes to our blueline, so I see the west stronger in general.

 

So, where the Canuck management misjudged the situation is that they should be focussing on adding prospects, via draft picks. I question the decision not to go after those cash dumps that bring prospects via the draft.

 

Missing out on Marleau is the first mistake, and It is my opinion, that the Leafs would rather have traded with us rather than Carolina, just from a compete perspective alone. Now, today, we are interviewing Myers, who will most assuredly be asking for big money, when he is not a 7 Million dollar player. When Vancouver will have Tryamkin and Woo knocking on the door next year, this alone will put pressure on us to restructure our defense for the second time in 2 years, all along missing on the big picture...….

 

"IF" the Canucks were to have stated that they were interested in the various cap dumps, there would have been a real possibility of adding picks, which could be used as bargaining chips when looking for even better prospects, which will become available due to the expansion draft being 1 year closer.

 

Are we ready to compete? I do not believe so, and I believe that one more year of building would have been a much better idea, when considering our maturity, and incomplete roster, now we are forcing the subject, when I believe most Canuck fans, would have good, with just watching Demko, Hughes, and possibly Juolevi enter the NHL.

 

I personally, would rather the Canucks trade for picks, and continue the rebuild a bit longer, and watch the development of the mentioned players, and see what I believe would have been an amazing year with just our team developing naturally. I am not sure being pinned to a long term contract (s) is good going into the expansion draft, especially when we just survived the possibility of Edler not signing , because of us not wanting to give him an extended contract with a NTC, at the expansion draft

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the acquisition of Miller, but I believe we could have used our cap to add prospects this year, and went after the trades, and UFA's next year. 

 

I would love to hear  your thoughts on this subject. Do you feel we have shot the gun too earlier? Is it your concern?

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by janisahockeynut

[xereau]

Wait until after UFA season.

[-AJ-]

I'm not worried about it. Even if we miss this year (which I expect us to), I think we'll continue to improve in time to make the show in 2021. I don't think it's a make or break year this season. It's not the end of the world if we don't make it in 2020, as our best players are all still young, so we're not on a tight timeline or anything.

 

I think our team has trended up in the last two years and doesn't need any more high picks to eventually become competitive, even if I don't think we'll be a playoff team next year. We'll get there pretty soon with the core we have.

[Rounoush]

[Smashian Kassian]

I agree with everything you've said here janis, I've shared alot of the same thoughts.

 

Really making the playoffs in 1 of the next 2 years will come down to improving the defense significantly. We don't have the assets to make a big time trade, so it comes down to Free Agency, which as you said is a very risky proposition.

 

I also like getting JT Miller, but I agree we aren't quite ready to be going for it yet. But that's what we are doing, I'm sure Aquallini doesn't want us to be patient going into a 50th anniversary season.

 

Hopefully we can improve & make playoffs without hurting ourselves long term with another Eriksson-like anchor. Fingers crossed, we shall see.

[xereau]

 

[luckylager]

Yeah, trying to build a winning team after a half decade of being &^@#ing awful is missing the mark. Sure.

 

We've got a high quality young core, a few good players coming down the pipeline and a competitive environment for those prospects. Petey accelerated the rebuild in a huge way and I'm fine with trying to build around the studs we've got.

 

The forward lineup is looking competitive, the D isn't. If we end up in the incredibly fortunate position of having too many good dmen in two or three years we get to deal from a position of strength. That's not a bad thing.

 

Why do you assume JB was given the opportunity to eat contracts? Other factors could and probably were at play. Does Aqua want to pay a buyout for a late 1st round pick? 

 

I don't know if we'll manage to snag Myers, but he would be a massive benefit to our defense. I'm so &^@#ing tired of just resigning myself to watching a loss before the game even starts.

 

Teams build, grow, win in all sorts of ways and I don't care how we get there, but I'm tired if losing all the time.

[khay]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

As most of you know, I have been a huge supporter of Jim Benning, but I think they have missed the mark.

 

The Canucks, have decided to compete for a playoff spot, which in my opinion they will not do. They will come closer, but in the end, I do not see any of the top teams getting weaker, in fact teams like Arizona, Chicago and Edmonton, now have some cap room to add, so there is some concern they will be stronger, that is not to even mention Colorado being 1 year better, with their own prospects coming of age. The addition of Maker cancels out the addition of Hughes to our blueline, so I see the west stronger in general.

 

So, where the Canuck management misjudged the situation is that they should be focussing on adding prospects, via draft picks. I question the decision not to go after those cash dumps that bring prospects via the draft.

 

Missing out on Marleau is the first mistake, and It is my opinion, that the Leafs would rather have traded with us rather than Carolina, just from a compete perspective alone. Now, today, we are interviewing Myers, who will most assuredly be asking for big money, when he is not a 7 Million dollar player. When Vancouver will have Tryamkin and Woo knocking on the door next year, this alone will put pressure on us to restructure our defense for the second time in 2 years, all along missing on the big picture...….

 

"IF" the Canucks were to have stated that they were interested in the various cap dumps, there would have been a real possibility of adding picks, which could be used as bargaining chips when looking for even better prospects, which will become available due to the expansion draft being 1 year closer.

 

Are we ready to compete? I do not believe so, and I believe that one more year of building would have been a much better idea, when considering our maturity, and incomplete roster, now we are forcing the subject, when I believe most Canuck fans, would have good, with just watching Demko, Hughes, and possibly Juolevi enter the NHL.

 

I personally, would rather the Canucks trade for picks, and continue the rebuild a bit longer, and watch the development of the mentioned players, and see what I believe would have been an amazing year with just our team developing naturally. I am not sure being pinned to a long term contract (s) is good going into the expansion draft, especially when we just survived the possibility of Edler not signing , because of us not wanting to give him an extended contract with a NTC, at the expansion draft

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the acquisition of Miller, but I believe we could have used our cap to add prospects this year, and went after the trades, and UFA's next year. 

 

I would love to hear  your thoughts on this subject. Do you feel we have shot the gun too earlier? Is it your concern?

 

Oh what's the point of trading for Kawhi Leonard for 1 year when no one is beating Golden State anyways... You never know what's going to happen.

 

It's a long season and the team felt that they can make progress with this group. Imagine if EP, Boes, Hughes, Demko, Horvat, Virt, Juolevi, Marky, Gaudette, make a great progress in the summer, show up ready to compete and you as a manager didn't do your job of addressing holes in the lineup so they fall short due to injuries, lack of depth? You just wasted away one year of competing for the cup.

 

Waiting doesn't solve the problem unless you are waiting to hit the jackpot on a 1st overall or get lucky with another Petey. There's always going to be teams that are going to draft ahead of you and pick better players than you. Are we going to continue our rebuild because Hughes (or insert name) is cancelled out by Makar (insert name)? How long do you have to wait? Sometime you just gotta work with what you have, make a deal to fill holes and take a risk on a UFA. You may not be able to assemble the most talented players on the planet but perhaps the team that plays hard and for each other is all you need to contend.

 

But yes, getting a 1st from Toronto for Marleau cap dump might have been a good deal. In fact, Marleau could have finished that last year on our team. Then, we can delay signing a top 6 forward to next season. Well, assuming Marleau can still pot 15-20 goals and 30-40 points.

 

And yes, Myers is going to be a risky signing. Could turn into another Eriksson situation for us. If JB can get the deal done for at most 4 years, then I think it's palatable. Ideally 2-3 years but 4 is palatable.

 

[khay]

45 minutes ago, xereau said:

 

Meh that was against old and slow LA Kings. 

 

Just kidding. Can't believe we have to wait 3 more months before the season starts. 

[timberz21]

My question is when does the losing stop?  When do we stop being the Edmonton Oilers who kept getting 1st overall, after 1st overall?

 

At one point, it nice to have a cupboard full of prospect but you have to move forward, show progress.  If Benning is going to tank another year, what message does that send to Horvat, Petey, Hughes and Boeser?  Canucks won't just wake up one day and make the playoffs magically.  You gotta work hard at it, show progress and build on previous' year momemtum and JB gotta show that management is supporting them by adding significant pieces.

 

Every year there are surprise and deceptions.  Look at the Islanders last year, nobody picked them to make the playoffs, or the Devils 2 years ago.  Someone in the West will fall and the Canucks can take advantage of that.  You say that Colorado and Phoenix are getting better....but so are we.  Petey is entering his 2nd year, we added a legit top 6 players and might add a top 4 D via UFA.  We jump 8 points in the standing last year, that's progress and we gotta show more this year, even if we miss the playoffs by 1 pts, it'll still be worth it.  We gotta give our guys a little bit of compete and not just tank from the start.

[smithers joe]

you can’t blame FA for wanting to get back to the play offs, but trying to get there when teams only want your top players, is tough. the other draft picks while not ready yet, are coming.  we won’t know the extent of the rebuild until they make their way onto the team. i think the team has a bright future, but FA as well as the fans want it to be now. 

FA wants jim to fast track, so they are trying to sign fa’s who will speed up the process. 

we need top six forwards and top 4 d-men. we have them in the system, they are just not ready yet. people think we can trade jake for a top six winger and tanev for a top 4 d-man. that isn’t happening. they can bring in guys that will help us short term until our young guys are ready, but long contract for players that will only help us for a couple of years isn’t the way to go.  stay the course bengy.  we have to pay the price of a former gm made with luongo’s contract, don’t leave an albatross contract for another gm to deal with. 

 

[appleboy]

7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

As most of you know, I have been a huge supporter of Jim Benning, but I think they have missed the mark.

 

The Canucks, have decided to compete for a playoff spot, which in my opinion they will not do. They will come closer, but in the end, I do not see any of the top teams getting weaker, in fact teams like Arizona, Chicago and Edmonton, now have some cap room to add, so there is some concern they will be stronger, that is not to even mention Colorado being 1 year better, with their own prospects coming of age. The addition of Maker cancels out the addition of Hughes to our blueline, so I see the west stronger in general.

 

So, where the Canuck management misjudged the situation is that they should be focussing on adding prospects, via draft picks. I question the decision not to go after those cash dumps that bring prospects via the draft.

 

Missing out on Marleau is the first mistake, and It is my opinion, that the Leafs would rather have traded with us rather than Carolina, just from a compete perspective alone. Now, today, we are interviewing Myers, who will most assuredly be asking for big money, when he is not a 7 Million dollar player. When Vancouver will have Tryamkin and Woo knocking on the door next year, this alone will put pressure on us to restructure our defense for the second time in 2 years, all along missing on the big picture...….

 

"IF" the Canucks were to have stated that they were interested in the various cap dumps, there would have been a real possibility of adding picks, which could be used as bargaining chips when looking for even better prospects, which will become available due to the expansion draft being 1 year closer.

 

Are we ready to compete? I do not believe so, and I believe that one more year of building would have been a much better idea, when considering our maturity, and incomplete roster, now we are forcing the subject, when I believe most Canuck fans, would have good, with just watching Demko, Hughes, and possibly Juolevi enter the NHL.

 

I personally, would rather the Canucks trade for picks, and continue the rebuild a bit longer, and watch the development of the mentioned players, and see what I believe would have been an amazing year with just our team developing naturally. I am not sure being pinned to a long term contract (s) is good going into the expansion draft, especially when we just survived the possibility of Edler not signing , because of us not wanting to give him an extended contract with a NTC, at the expansion draft

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the acquisition of Miller, but I believe we could have used our cap to add prospects this year, and went after the trades, and UFA's next year. 

 

I would love to hear  your thoughts on this subject. Do you feel we have shot the gun too earlier? Is it your concern?

 

Jim Benning has never done this .  They should have done that year one but have used the approach of "trying to be competitive".  They tried to add this year via trades but realized that no one valued their players and wouldn't give them anything for them. He only has one currency to trade. I worry that moving a first will lead him down a road that none of us want to go down.

They think the rebuild that never really started is complete. So trading firsts and seconds will be used as currency.   I think they are two years too early. I also think first round picks should never be traded.

[mpt]

I somewhat agree, but this needed to be done already.  We can’t just keep waiting every draft to select one 1st rounder.  However if we trade for a bunch of 1st rounders now by the time they have developed Horvat is past his prime.   Thats the problem with rebuilding, when you do you need to do it fast, not this every year do something to transition like let one old player go and draft one 1st rounder.  Its been a little bit of a disaster really.  Again this is transitioning on the fly rather than a ‘rebuild’.  In the end you have some nice pieces but are still just mediocre overall

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, timberz21 said:

 

Look at the Islanders last year, nobody picked them to make the playoffs

Sure but look what difference it makes having arguably the best coach in the game as your head coach.  Compare that to Gillis hiring a coach who just mailed it in...then replacing him with an awful coach BUT who at least cared about doing his job.  One makes the playoffs, the other gets himself and the GM fired.

Edited June 28, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, smithers joe said:

you can’t blame FA for wanting to get back to the play offs, but trying to get there when teams only want your top players, is tough. the other draft picks while not ready yet, are coming.  we won’t know the extent of the rebuild until they make their way onto the team. i think the team has a bright future, but FA as well as the fans want it to be now. 

FA wants jim to fast track, so they are trying to sign fa’s who will speed up the process. 

we need top six forwards and top 4 d-men. we have them in the system, they are just not ready yet. people think we can trade jake for a top six winger and tanev for a top 4 d-man. that isn’t happening. they can bring in guys that will help us short term until our young guys are ready, but long contract for players that will only help us for a couple of years isn’t the way to go.  stay the course bengy.  we have to pay the price of a former gm made with luongo’s contract, don’t leave an albatross contract for another gm to deal with. 

 

Nothing wrong with dealing picks (whatever round) to fill needed holes in the lineup.  My issue was the perceived need.  Miller is a quality player no doubt but do we REALLY need another winger over a top 4 D?  We’ve signed only ONE such guy in FOUR years via free agency.  It’s not easy as you often have to grossly overpay for them.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, xereau said:

 

This is all you need to see when you want to question Jim Benning and what he has done.  This is the future.  And all 3 players were drafted by Jim Benning.  Vasili Podkolzin may be added to this list to make it a foursome.  And all 4 players were drafted outside of the top 4 picks.  The future looks bright and it looks exciting.

[Crabcakes]

You can't go making decisions on your team based on what others are doing. 

 

I don't look at this years moves as going all in and pushing their chips to the middle of the table.  Rather, it is more like taking the next step in the development of the young core which face it, is mostly in place already.  It is much worse to waste time and not have these players taking the next step as a team.  Besides,  Bo Horvat is entering his 6th NHL season already.  Bo is now 24 and has turned into a first rate 2C.  It is such a waste to be trotting him out with 3rd line support like Leivo and Eriksson.  Nothing against either of those players, they are fine 3rd line players, not top 6.

 

I think that supporting the good young players is more what the additions this off season are about.  Get Petey and Boeser a decent winger to play with.  This gives them 6 players who are bona fide top 6.  The addition of another forward to help out with the often concussed Baertschi would be helpful as well.

 

On D, they want a bona fide top 4.  

 

Of course all of this makes the team more competitive but, as they have been saying all along, pushing for a playoff spot is very important for the development of the younger players.

[therodigy]

7 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

As most of you know, I have been a huge supporter of Jim Benning, but I think they have missed the mark.

 

The Canucks, have decided to compete for a playoff spot, which in my opinion they will not do. They will come closer, but in the end, I do not see any of the top teams getting weaker, in fact teams like Arizona, Chicago and Edmonton, now have some cap room to add, so there is some concern they will be stronger, that is not to even mention Colorado being 1 year better, with their own prospects coming of age. The addition of Maker cancels out the addition of Hughes to our blueline, so I see the west stronger in general.

 

So, where the Canuck management misjudged the situation is that they should be focussing on adding prospects, via draft picks. I question the decision not to go after those cash dumps that bring prospects via the draft.

 

Missing out on Marleau is the first mistake, and It is my opinion, that the Leafs would rather have traded with us rather than Carolina, just from a compete perspective alone. Now, today, we are interviewing Myers, who will most assuredly be asking for big money, when he is not a 7 Million dollar player. When Vancouver will have Tryamkin and Woo knocking on the door next year, this alone will put pressure on us to restructure our defense for the second time in 2 years, all along missing on the big picture...….

 

"IF" the Canucks were to have stated that they were interested in the various cap dumps, there would have been a real possibility of adding picks, which could be used as bargaining chips when looking for even better prospects, which will become available due to the expansion draft being 1 year closer.

 

Are we ready to compete? I do not believe so, and I believe that one more year of building would have been a much better idea, when considering our maturity, and incomplete roster, now we are forcing the subject, when I believe most Canuck fans, would have good, with just watching Demko, Hughes, and possibly Juolevi enter the NHL.

 

I personally, would rather the Canucks trade for picks, and continue the rebuild a bit longer, and watch the development of the mentioned players, and see what I believe would have been an amazing year with just our team developing naturally. I am not sure being pinned to a long term contract (s) is good going into the expansion draft, especially when we just survived the possibility of Edler not signing , because of us not wanting to give him an extended contract with a NTC, at the expansion draft

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the acquisition of Miller, but I believe we could have used our cap to add prospects this year, and went after the trades, and UFA's next year. 

 

I would love to hear  your thoughts on this subject. Do you feel we have shot the gun too earlier? Is it your concern?

 

The pending (since now confirmed) recapture penalty is precisely the reason why the trade couldn't happen. Being 35+, a buyout would provide no cap relief. Add $6.25M to the $3M (With Luongo's salary rentention included) and you either have no Miller or no Boeser, in addition to no impact UFA D (Likely Myers). Is that worth the first round pick?

 

Additionally, it's easy to say we have Tryamkin and Woo waiting in the sidelines in the next year or so, but what if they're not? A lot can change over the course of a season. Tryamkin can easily stay in Russia, and Woo could potentially be overwhelmed and need a season or two after this current season to marinate in Utica. Does management maintain status quo and hope or do they be proactive and try to do something about it now?

 

I understand the frustration, especially when you see Colorado have a strong draft, as well as seeing the Rangers continue progress on what looks to be a successful rebuild. With that said, I'm maintaining some optimism that the Canucks will be making some serious noise in the post-season either this year or next!

Edited June 28, 2019 by therodigy

[Crabcakes]

6 hours ago, xereau said:

 

Gives you chills doesn't it?  Holy crap, I'm looking forward to October.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 hours ago, luckylager said:

Yeah, trying to build a winning team after a half decade of being &^@#ing awful is missing the mark. Sure.

 

We've got a high quality young core, a few good players coming down the pipeline and a competitive environment for those prospects. Petey accelerated the rebuild in a huge way and I'm fine with trying to build around the studs we've got.

 

The forward lineup is looking competitive, the D isn't. If we end up in the incredibly fortunate position of having too many good dmen in two or three years we get to deal from a position of strength. That's not a bad thing.

 

Why do you assume JB was given the opportunity to eat contracts? Other factors could and probably were at play. Does Aqua want to pay a buyout for a late 1st round pick? 

 

I don't know if we'll manage to snag Myers, but he would be a massive benefit to our defense. I'm so &^@#ing tired of just resigning myself to watching a loss before the game even starts.

 

Teams build, grow, win in all sorts of ways and I don't care how we get there, but I'm tired if losing all the time.

Yes it’s great to try and build a winning team, but it doesn’t happen overnight.  What happens when you give up big prices to start winning and it doesn’t bring any different results?

 

 

Rebuilding teams often get into trouble when they see signs of light and start to rush things.  Look at the Oilers in 2015, after drafting McDavid they traded 5 picks in 2015 to help push that team into a playoff team by getting a goalie and a upcoming D and it failed miserable, costing them a player like Barzal in the process.  They then followed it up by trading away a ton of talent to surround their “new” core as well as making some big UFA signings and still they are a bottom team.

 

Look at the Sabres as well in 2015 who just finished drafting Risto 6th overall, Rienhart 2nd overall and then Eichel 2nd overall.  They started dumping picks and prospects for Lehner, O’Reilly, Kane in order to help them start winning now and it resulted in them still missing 3 more straight years.  

 

The point is, since drafting Petey, Canucks have been trending in the right position, so why are we in a hurry to rush it all of the sudden, what happened to rebuilding takes patience.  I don’t see nothing wrong with bringing in cheaper support players to help our young core but I do think it’s a bit of a mistake to start removing big pieces from our future support in order to do so….and that includes long term cap space.  Unless a player is young and elite, not free agent should be getting more than 5 years and no trade should be including high picks.  We will see how the rest of summer goes but with JB on the hotseat it would appear that we are going all in.

 

Once our core has proven they are at the very least a playoff team, then we can start paying a high price for support players, but until then lets continue with the nice progression path we’ve been going down. We’ve already waited this long what’s another two years.