Salary cap management

[canucksnihilist]

Seems the Canucks couldn’t get P.K. subban because we spent too much on the 4th line last year.  That’s one thing that stands out in this article (below).  Not that it was a slam dunk he would come here however, but this does negate a lot of opinions about how the overspending won’t hurt the club. Nobody would rather have an expensive 4th line over P.K. subban.....   

 

Bennings one weakness.  He doesn’t negotiate contracts very well compared to his peers.   I would love it if they actually hired a capologist and let someone other than Benning make the money decisions.

 

like him or not it’s a decent read and makes some j retesting points:

 

Patrick Johnston: Canucks face salary cap complications with free-agent talent available
The Canucks' messy cap situation means they may not be able to make many big moves in the coming days.
https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-facing-down-cap-crunch-as-free-agency-get-set-to-open

[6string]

Subban's contract at $9 million pffft.

[BlastPast]

31 minutes ago, canucksnihilist said:

I would love it if they actually hired a capologist

You know they haven't ?

[coastal.view]

nucks will be signing at least 6 more players, 7 if myers is signed

brock, motte, leivo, goldobin, teves, rafferty - motte and leivo are arbitration eligible - so they will be signing at amounts higher then the minimum

(will likely take 20 million to get these 7 signed)

 

nucks already have 22 signed

so that will put them at 29

and about 4.5 million over the cap (if 20 million is spent)

at least 2 players (teves and rafferty?) will be moved to the comets before the season starts (so around 2 million or so comes off the cap)

they'll need to move another 2.5 - 3 million

 

it is clear players will be moved out off the team (likely 3) (at worst they demote 3 real contracts to save 1 million per)

then they will be cap complaint

but they will likely get rid of 1 or 2 contracts

 

until we see what is done on that front

it is really hard to critique cap management of this team

team could easily be 3 - 5 million under the cap when the season starts

add to that roussel's 3 million onto ltir the next day

and then there nothing wrong with cap management if that is all achieved

 

if the foregoing is largely accurate

nucks have about 3 million or so still to spend on a player/s even with myers signed

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by coastal.view

[Nuxfanabroad]

So our lower-roster depth(a tad pricey) averted this costly gaffe on a high-maintenance, man-child?! Why, that's wonderful, thanks for the news.

[JamesB]

I am not sure about the numbers provided by @coastal.view. I am not saying they are wrong. I just don't quite understand the arithmetic.

 

Here is what I have from CapFriendly.

 

1. At present the Canucks have 22 roster players signed and their total cap hit, including the Luongo cap recapture,  is $69.5 million.

2. Of that total, 3 million is for Roussel, who will go on LTIR once the season starts. So the "true" cap hit is for those players is $66.5 million and there are really only 21 guys available to start the year. .

3. Probably 3 of those guys will start the season in Utica or be traded for a non-roster player, probably reducing the cap hit by about 2.5 million and opening up 3 extra roster spots. So we are now at $64 million for 18 guys.

4. The Canucks need to sign Boeser, Motte, Leivo, and Goldobin. I think the range for Boeser is 6 to 7 million, maybe a bit more. The other three guys were all only getting about a million each last year. Including those guys and Boeser, I would allow for $12 million. That takes the team up to a 22-man roster with a cap hit of 76.

5. That leaves one roster spot and 5.5 million in cap space. That is not enough for Myers. To pay Myers $7 million, which is my guess for their offer, they would need to do something else to clear space, but not much. They could buy out someone or trade someone. 

 

So signing Myers would remove essentially all of their flexibility. I don't think he is worth it. I think signing him for anything over $6 million would be a mistake and the mistake will get more costly over time. especially when EP and Hughes need to be signed for big money in two years.

 

Edited June 29, 2019 by JamesB

[Nuxfanabroad]

48 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I am not sure about the numbers provided by @coastal.view. I am not saying they are wrong. I just don't quite understand the arithmetic.

 

Here is what I have from CapFriendly.

 

1. At present the Canucks have 22 roster players signed and their total cap hit, including the Luongo cap recapture,  is $69.5 million.

2. Of that total, 3 million is for Roussel, who will go on LTIR once the season starts. So the "true" cap hit is for those players is $66.5 million and there are really only 21 guys available to start the year. .

3. Probably 3 of those guys will start the season in Utica or be traded for a non-roster player, probably reducing the cap hit by about 2.5 million and opening up 3 extra roster spots. So we are now at $64 million for 18 guys.

4. The Canucks need to sign Boeser, Motte, Leivo, and Goldobin. I think the range for Boeser is 6 to 7 million, maybe a bit more. The other three guys were all only getting about a million each last year. Including those four guys and Boeser, I would allow for $12 million. That takes the team up to a 22-man roster with a cap hit of 76.

5. That leaves one roster spot and 5.5 million in cap space. That is not enough for Myers. To pay Myers $7 million, which is my guess for their offer, they would need to do something else to clear space, but not much. They could buy out someone or trade someone. 

 

So signing Myers would remove essentially all of their flexibility. I don't think he is worth it. I think signing him for anything over $6 million would be a mistake and the mistake will get more costly over time. especially when EP and Hughes need to be signed for big money in two years.

 

Thanks for providing some clarity on these muddy waters.

 

Agree with you on the Myers angle. Would prefer a couple gritty D like Benn & Schenn, for around 4 mill combined. Prob a good time to enter a season with a few mill open to manoeuvre in-season, if necessary.

[mll]

53 minutes ago, JamesB said:

I am not sure about the numbers provided by @coastal.view. I am not saying they are wrong. I just don't quite understand the arithmetic.

 

Here is what I have from CapFriendly.

 

1. At present the Canucks have 22 roster players signed and their total cap hit, including the Luongo cap recapture,  is $69.5 million.

2. Of that total, 3 million is for Roussel, who will go on LTIR once the season starts. So the "true" cap hit is for those players is $66.5 million and there are really only 21 guys available to start the year. .

3. Probably 3 of those guys will start the season in Utica or be traded for a non-roster player, probably reducing the cap hit by about 2.5 million and opening up 3 extra roster spots. So we are now at $64 million for 18 guys.

4. The Canucks need to sign Boeser, Motte, Leivo, and Goldobin. I think the range for Boeser is 6 to 7 million, maybe a bit more. The other three guys were all only getting about a million each last year. Including those four guys and Boeser, I would allow for $12 million. That takes the team up to a 22-man roster with a cap hit of 76.

5. That leaves one roster spot and 5.5 million in cap space. That is not enough for Myers. To pay Myers $7 million, which is my guess for their offer, they would need to do something else to clear space, but not much. They could buy out someone or trade someone. 

 

So signing Myers would remove essentially all of their flexibility. I don't think he is worth it. I think signing him for anything over $6 million would be a mistake and the mistake will get more costly over time. especially when EP and Hughes need to be signed for big money in two years.

 

 

Canucks will need to have the available cap space to take Roussel off LTIR - whether prospective or banked.   If teams use LTIR it limits the amount they can bank in cap space.  Injuries will also further reduce any available banked cap space.  If they don't have banked cap space available, once they are ready to take him off LTIR they will need to find a way to be 3M under the cap.  

 

Earlier in the month LeBrun speculated Boeser at 8M on a long term deal while Friedman in his latest 31 thoughts at 7.5M for 6 years.  His agency represents Laine and Rantanen who are set to break the bank - not the same agent though.  
 

Pettersson and Hughes have performance bonuses that count against the cap on top of their salaries.  Hughes doesn't seem to have schedule B bonuses but Pettersson does.   The schedule A is max. 850K per player and it's well possible they both hit them.  An overage can get carried over to next season.  Pettersson has 2M  in schedule B bonuses but they are based on league achievements like being top-10 in league scoring.  It seems less probable to hit those targets but should still count up to 2 x 850K to absorb any bonuses this season.  

 

[kacholu]

4 hours ago, BlastPast said:

You know they haven't ?

Well if they had one then I would be damn scared with the job he's doing so far 

[KariyaSakicAnderson]

The Canucks  cap space availability will be tight but it is possible to include all and Myers. With that projected roster, Spooner and Schaller will most likely start in Utica. The first $1075k doesn't count against the cap so that is an extra 2.1 mil in space giving them 18.6 mil with an 18 player roster. 

 

Of the 8 players given QO, Teves, Rafferty, Boucher and Perron will all most likely be in Utica to start the season so their contracts won't affect the cap. For reference purposes, Teves and Rafferty QO are 875k, Boucher 765k, Perron 715k. 

 

The QOs that matter Motte and Goldobin are 875k, I doubt either will be more than a million on a year, maybe 2. Lievos is 975k, he could be at most 1.2 on a yr or 2. That is an additional let's say 3.3 mil onto the cap, leaving them with about 15.3 mil in space and 21 roster players. 

 

That's more than enough for Boeser and Myers and a cheap 3rd pair dman leaving them with a 24 man roster and if left as is, Gaudette most likely starts in Utica.

 

This is all without Rousell being put on Ltir or other trades and moves that may be made or the cost of the contract bonuses which may be about an extra 4.5 mil, (which I believe could be deferred to the following years cap?) Also Spooner could be bought out instead of sent to Utica which would give the Canucks an extra 1 mil in Cap space. 

So yes they will be tight up to the Cap but they have 3 salary retention slots for trades and hopefully LE will be moved where if a player has to be taken back in that trade it is for one that has a year so he can also be bought out ie: Boedker, 4 mil from Ottawa. Or they agree to a contract termination, I'm not sure of the impact that it may have on the cap if any. Though I believe that if they do come to a mutual termination it has be so that LE plays in Europe, he won't be able to play in the NHL this upcoming year. 

[ilduce39]

We have a lot of dead weight floating around on the cap but that’s where JB needs to get creative and make some room.  

 

I’ve had faith in him thus far so I’ll wait and see if he can maneuver the cap at this juncture.  He’s done a good job with Edler and acquiring Miller’s contract so far. 

[vannuck59]

The up coming cap for this year , we need to send LE packing ether to Utica or by trade.  This would solve our cap problems . Boeser will sign a bridge deal 5.5 x 3 , Myers may surprise all by taking 6.5 x 7 . we shall see.

[appleboy]

I would hope they have a pending deal to move LE with his cap. If they can do this they will be fine. LE did move his family out . Ottawa would be a good fit 

If he is not moved then they will have a very little to spend.

[appleboy]

8 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

The up coming cap for this year , we need to send LE packing ether to Utica or by trade.  This would solve our cap problems . Boeser will sign a bridge deal 5.5 x 3 , Myers may surprise all by taking 6.5 x 7 . we shall see.

If it is Utica that will only remove a mil of his cap.

[appleboy]

There is also performance bonuses that they need to consider. Potential of around 4 mil. I think you can figure that Petey and Hughes could hit them. 

[WeneedLumme]

3 hours ago, kacholu said:

Well if they had one then I would be damn scared with the job he's doing so far 

You mean because of the way they had to give away a 1st round pick to unload an ancient overpaid player to get under the cap? Yes it's terrible how the Canucks have had to gut their team and their future because of their cap issues. The Canucks are the team that wears blue with a marijuana leaf on the uniform, right?

[Stelar]

I think the bottom line is it’s pretty sad that we will be even close to the cap with almost the same team we had last year. Except for Miller 

[spur1]

Oh yay   Another Benning bash thread. 

[Nuck1991]

we have to develop the drafted  players, find people to play from the system. The biggest need right now is RHD. 

[oldnews]