A Fair Criticism of Jim Benning

[combover]

The drafting changed when Judd brackett was promoted. That could be Bennings best move, 

the owners don’t keep anyone that stands up to them around it why burliest wasn’t that renewed and when Gillis called them out in the media he was fired shortly after even thou they paid him for another 3years. Linden left for similar reasons and it’s why we alway have rookies GMs since FA took over. And it why high quality experienced NHL executives don’t line up here. 

I’m not a fan of Jim in the beginning I was he came in and had the chance to do a tear down rebuild he by his own admission thought there was a window to still win and signed vets and traded picks to try to get a playoff spot that’s been his goal since he got here. 

The rebuild is a result of not succeeding on any level. 

The excuses he had nothing to work with when he came in ...funny because he disagreed with that and tried to buy a playoff spot.

using the twins as excuses also a shallow attempt to defect the incompetence, Of how things have gone 

we have more prospects because we’ve been terrible we could have more except Jim has traded away more than Gillis did when he had a legit CUP team not a fingers crossed shyte at the wall fringe wildcard team. 

Im sure another round of b-f grade ufas will help. It’s helped so much so far. 

The problem here is deeper than just Jim but he’s the scapegoat FA will use when this over priced underperforming mess needs to be cleaned up. 

This team won’t can’t have success until FA steps back and lets the people he’s hired as professionals do there jobs. With minimal interference from owners. 

 

[bobbyg43]

Cap management, contracts ,trades & signings, UFA s  ( over payments) etc are the glaring weakness I observe from afar . These are not so bad as could be overcome with good executive group? ( Wiesbroad what does he do ? Beside hi light American born players?,

 

His scouting staff an drafting has been admirable. 

His coaching hires have been so so till Green came in.

this may be his apex season where he finally may be able to get ahead of the curve? Maybe not . 96 points in west to get into  playoffs is a big jump.

i hope one more TDL , draft an UFA may be all it may take to roll out the next winner.

 

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

8 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I agree 100% adding Burkie would be a great move.....in my books...Burkie's problem he couldn't find a goalie well Jim has couple real gems in the system...

I like Jim but like you said his ufa and trades arnt the best and I don't think he had a good role model in Boston.....

Burkie could teach him a lot. I just see Jim as a great AGM not the main guy....right now.

The draft has saved his job and is the main reason why I like Jim but some of the moves I get place holders and trying to fill in the rosters age gap but I think he needs a seasoned vet like Burke to help him out.....

Heck no.  Not Burke.  He is not the guy to help things in Vancouver.  

[HKSR]

If you had to pick one or the other, I'd  rather a GM that drafts well than trades well.  Trades only happen when you have something to trade.  You have something to trade when you draft well.

Edited June 30, 2019 by HKSR

[canucklehead80]

JB supporter here. Overall, I think he's done a good job. He's made some good and bad signings in the past in free agency. His drafting has been pretty good overall. He's made some good and bad trades. None of this is really all that different from other teams around the league. Where I have wanted him to improve the most is in the trade department. What I mean by that is I'd like to see him take a little more risk, which is what he did with the JT Miller trade. We've seen enough of the 1 for 1 minor/reclamation project deals. I was also excited to see (although I wanted VPod picked, I was absolutely not expecting it) Benning swing for the fences and take a riskier pick this year at #10.

[smithers joe]

i can remember every move jim has made and understand why he made them. they didn’t all turn out the way he thought, but he made them with the thought of building and creating an environment where players could grow and achieve success. some will judge him on wins and loses, while others will judge him on how his moves over the course of his time here, has moved us closer to a strong team. draft picks take time to develop and move out the place holders. the owners like the fans want to make the play offs, therefore both the owners and fans bare some criticism. i think jim’s plan is to draft talent, trade for placeholders and add fa’s for specific needs. he obviously believes that fa defensemen is the way to go as you get a player that has developed more. 

as a bottom feeder, he has to offer more term and money to get the better players here. that is one thing that people blame him for, that i don’t think is fair. he can be blamed for some decisions if you want to, but i’ll judge him after all his draft picks and pick ups are playing for this team. 

i’m more interested in how his plans turn us into a competitive team, moving forward. i’m behind jim, all the way. 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Step 1. Take a deep breath and look at the big picture for second.

Step 2. Benning took over with only Hutton, Gaunce, and Horvat to show for prospects. A team with lots of veterans signed, and to NTC's. 

We had two productive but aging Twins and Edler, none of which would move. We had a disgruntled Kesler that would only waive his NTC to 

go to Anaheim. We had no prospect pool, and basically 3 defensemen, 2 of which seem to always get injured. 

Step 3. The team was on a downhill slide. UFA's will not sign here until we get a competitive team, so UFA's are going to be overpaid. 

Step 4. With these handicaps Benning made the best deals he could. Some worked, some didn't. No GM is perfect. Trading isn't like EA's NHL series. 

 

If there's a weakness in management, it's Wiesbrod. He should be canned immediately.  Get someone who is a good negotiator, good with contract law, and cap management. 

Hockey players are not like a condo in Yaletown. Where you can just flip them and get draft picks or prospects. The fact also is, even when Jim makes mistakes. He usually turns those mistakes in other assets, like Pearson, and Karlsson. Add to the fact every year he finds UFA players from college. This year he just added Teves, and Rafferty, and Kielly. So basically any assets the team is losing Benning is making it up for in the draft and finding players from college. 

 

[Tomatoes11]

9 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Okay....let me ask you this is Burke a good GM?

Yes, anyone that would personally drive people to airport rather than piss away value is a great GM.

 

Benning is the opposite. 

[JM_]

8 hours ago, xereau said:

Jim has made lots of good moves too.

 

All GM's have a list like this.

So, a fair criticism would entail somehow quantifying all deals, rating moves, and trying somehow to give advanced stats, in comparison to others.

 

And seeing as this doesn't exist, this isn't a fair criticism. Fair enough?

 

there are just so many things out of a GMs direct control that effect their 'performance' - even down to the city and/or state. Some players want NYC over other cities for the buzz. Some guys want low taxes. Lots of Swedes love BC. I don't know how you'd parse all that out and really compare GMs. That plus no one really see's the actual conversations these guys have. 

 

I don't believe that Jim had a mandate to tear it down while the Sedins were here. I don't think it needs to be much of a deeper analysis than that. All of the moves while they were here were about trying to keep the team somewhat competitive.

 

What we're going to see this year is very much a Benning creation tho, so I think we have to wait and see how this year turns out before making a meaningful criticism of the post-Sedin Benning regime. 

 

[cuporbust]

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

Isn't there already two Benning threads?

No......there is 4

[CaptKirk888]

12 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Yes, anyone that would personally drive people to airport rather than piss away value is a great GM.

 

Benning is the opposite. 

 

[Borvat]

I am not saying he is perfect.  He has made some mistakes along the way like all other GM's.  He could use some help on the contract side and someone to help him flesh out trades/negotiations.  Since Linden left he has had to be responsible for everything from what I can gather. His drafting has been good - Pettersson - Calder / Boeser - Calder running until injured / Hughes and a good group in College.  This years draft appears extremely good

 

He was provided a train wreck here and in Utica when he started.  He was handcuffed by the Sedin situation, no depth plus an owner who wanted a bandaid solution in the beginning few years.  Hence the picks for players who were reclamations/hopefuls. I also don't believe Willie D was his man I think Trevor Linden made that call - Medicine Hat connection and all.  Tortorella by accounts at the time was an Aquilini preference.

 

It took Linden leaving and Willie D and Tortorella getting canned before Aquilini backed off/toned it down a bit for the rebuild on the fly then Aquilini proceeded to throw Linden under the bus.  Look what JB has been able to assemble since then.  To me that's when the rebuild really began to take shape. Brackett has been a gift. 

 

I see some progress and I am worried he will be stopped before we can see what his vision actually is.  From who he has drafted I think it looks reasonably good.  

Edited June 30, 2019 by Borvat

[Tomatoes11]

7 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Like any GM he is open to criticism for moves he makes.

 

However not enough fans take into consideration what he was handed when he started and how far he's turned this franchise around in a fairly short time.

 

He's had to balance icing a competitive team in the present while completely rebuilding the prospect pool. He's made some questionable trades along the way, but he's managed to bring character players in here to mentor the young players while at the same time keeping an eye on the future. It's a fine balance that wouldn't be easy for any GM.

 

All you have to ask is are we better off as a franchise than we were 5 years ago? And I would think most fans would say we absolutely are,

Are you for real?! Is this really how low the bar is set for our franchise? 

 

Technically, all it takes to be better than where were 5 years ago is to get one young blue chip prospect and that can be done at the next draft in as little as one year.

 

We were spinning our wheels for 5 years and we are worse off than we we should be at the moment because of his trades.

 

We took 5 years to be slightly better off than where we were 5 years ago. That’s bad. The way I see it is that Drafting probably moved us forward 5 steps but trades and signings moved us back 5 steps. So we have taken a grand total of zero steps until the Miller trade dropped us back like another 2 steps. So, because of Benning we are probably negative 2 steps forward in our rebuild and that is somehow good? We should be at least 10 steps forward by now and I believe any competent gm could have gotten us there.

 

The draft system was implemented to bring parity to the league by naturally giving the bottom feeders the best prospects. 5 years of being the benefactor of this system SHOULD be enough to make us better than what we are now. Which only means Benning slowed down the effects of this system considerably with his moves. Not sure how anyone can see it differently. It’s common sense.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Tomatoes11

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there are just so many things out of a GMs direct control that effect their 'performance' - even down to the city and/or state. Some players want NYC over other cities for the buzz. Some guys want low taxes. Lots of Swedes love BC. I don't know how you'd parse all that out and really compare GMs. That plus no one really see's the actual conversations these guys have. 

 

I don't believe that Jim had a mandate to tear it down while the Sedins were here. I don't think it needs to be much of a deeper analysis than that. All of the moves while they were here were about trying to keep the team somewhat competitive.

 

What we're going to see this year is very much a Benning creation tho, so I think we have to wait and see how this year turns out before making a meaningful criticism of the post-Sedin Benning regime. 

 

Good points JM.  Add to this season’s outlook the prospects coming up over the next two season.  Clearly JB believes our young core is entering its window for winning.  He’s bringing in the support players they deserve to do their best.  Plus, there are the prospects like: OJ, Woo, Rathbone, Lind, Pods, Hog, Madden, Lockwood, and more who will be pushing for support positions soon too.  Our next decade looks really good.  

Edited June 30, 2019 by Alflives

[Tomatoes11]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there are just so many things out of a GMs direct control that effect their 'performance' - even down to the city and/or state. Some players want NYC over other cities for the buzz. Some guys want low taxes. Lots of Swedes love BC. I don't know how you'd parse all that out and really compare GMs. That plus no one really see's the actual conversations these guys have. 

 

I don't believe that Jim had a mandate to tear it down while the Sedins were here. I don't think it needs to be much of a deeper analysis than that. All of the moves while they were here were about trying to keep the team somewhat competitive.

 

What we're going to see this year is very much a Benning creation tho, so I think we have to wait and see how this year turns out before making a meaningful criticism of the post-Sedin Benning regime. 

 

Naw, the way I see it is that picking so high in the draft for 5 years should already put us in a better position than where we sit currently. So the only logical explanation is Benning screwed up and set back our rebuild with terrible trades and signings. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Borvat said:

I am not saying he is perfect.  He has made some mistakes along the way like all other GM's.  He could use some help on the contract side and someone to help him flesh out trades/negotiations.  Since Linden left he has had to be responsible for everything from what I can gather. His drafting has been good - Pettersson - Calder / Boeser - Calder running until injured / Hughes and a good group in College.  This years draft appears extremely good

 

He was provided a train wreck here and in Utica when he started.  He was handcuffed by the Sedin situation, no depth plus an owner who wanted a bandaid solution in the beginning few years.  Hence the picks for players who were reclamations/hopefuls. I also don't believe Willie D was his man I think Trevor Linden made that call - Medicine Hat connection and all.  Tortorella by accounts at the time was an Aquilini preference.

 

It took Linden leaving and Willie D and Tortorella getting canned before Aquilini backed off/toned it down a bit for the rebuild on the fly then Aquilini proceeded to throw Linden under the bus.  Look what JB has been able to assemble since then.  To me that's when the rebuild really began to take shape. Brackett has been a gift. 

 

I see some progress and I am worried he will be stopped before we can see what his vision actually is.  From who he has drafted I think it looks reasonably good.  

Glad to see you mention our owner as one involved in hockey opps.  Considering his meddling, IMO, JB is doing a fabulous job.  This coming decade will be the best in Canuck’s history.  

[Borvat]

2 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Are you for real?! Is this really how low the bar is set for our franchise? 

 

Technically, all it takes to be better than where were 5 years ago is to get one young blue chip prospect and that can be done at the next draft in as little as one year.

 

We were spinning our wheels for 5 years and we are worse off than we we should be at the moment because of his trades.

 

We took 5 years to be slightly better off than where we were 5 years ago. That’s bad. The way I see it is that Drafting probably moved us forward 5 steps but trades and signings moved us back 5 steps. So we have taken a grand total of zero steps until the Miller trade dropped us back like another 2 steps. So, because of Benning we are probably negative 2 steps forward in our rebuild and that is somehow good? We should be at least 10 steps forward by now and I believe any competent gm could have gotten us there.

 

The draft system is implement to bring parity to the league by naturally giving the bottom feeders the best prospects. 5 years of being the benefactor of this system SHOULD be enough to make us better than what we are now. Which only means Benning slowed down the effects of this system considerably with his moves. Not sure how anyone can see it differently. It’s common sense.

Can you read or see anything beyond your pure bias.  Your comments are pure toxic and irrational.  The Canucks have been screwed in the entry draft every person who follows hockey acknowledges this.

 

The bolded comments tell me how much you really understand about the actual situation.  Your pure hatred blinds and you are not worth the time to engage.  Have a great long weekend.

[elvis15]

I know for simplicity's sake it's easy to talk about one person as the reason for one thing or another, but even Benning as the head of the organization is only as good as the people who work under him, and can only put his stamp on everything as much as Aquilini and co. lets him. We can talk about how good Benning is at any given thing, but don't know if his hand was forced to make a move earlier than he wanted, couldn't spend as much in free agency, wasn't getting good information from his team, or whatever.

 

But hey, it's fun to debate I guess.

[JM_]

Just now, Tomatoes11 said:

Naw, the way I see it is that picking so high in the draft for 5 years should already put us in a better position than where we sit currently. So the only logical explanation is Benning screwed up and set back our rebuild with terrible trades and signings. 

thats not logical at all. If those 'terrible signings' were the key to get us getting high draft picks why would the team record be better?

 

The only trade that is hurting the team right now is Loui, and lets see if Jim fixes that next week. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Are you for real?! Is this really how low the bar is set for our franchise? 

 

Technically, all it takes to be better than where were 5 years ago is to get one young blue chip prospect and that can be done at the next draft in as little as one year.

 

We were spinning our wheels for 5 years and we are worse off than we we should be at the moment because of his trades.

 

We took 5 years to be slightly better off than where we were 5 years ago. That’s bad. The way I see it is that Drafting probably moved us forward 5 steps but trades and signings moved us back 5 steps. So we have taken a grand total of zero steps until the Miller trade dropped us back like another 2 steps. So, because of Benning we are probably negative 2 steps forward in our rebuild and that is somehow good? We should be at least 10 steps forward by now and I believe any competent gm could have gotten us there.

 

The draft system is implement to bring parity to the league by naturally giving the bottom feeders the best prospects. 5 years of being the benefactor of this system SHOULD be enough to make us better than what we are now. Which only means Benning slowed down the effects of this system considerably with his moves. Not sure how anyone can see it differently. It’s common sense.

The draft system is not truly fair, as you suggest.  It does not give the best odds to the poorest teams.  As a result if this unfairness, JB has been drafting (mostly) outside the top five.  He’s done a brilliant job, considering that fact.  Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin are arguably three of the best players in their draft classes.  JB wasn’t picking as high as other teams, and he’s done better.  That, to me, is doing an excellent job.