[Trade] Avalanche trade Tyson Barrie, Alexander Kerfoot, 2020 6th-round pick to Maple Leafs for Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen, 2020 3rd-round pick

[grandmaster]

1 hour ago, blackpluto96 said:

Those saying Kadri and Horvat are comparable are out to lunch. 

Agreed. Horvat is leaps and bounds the better player and leader.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Sakic is still in a building mindset and President Josh Kroenke seems to agree.  He gave a lengthy interview at the end of the season and talks of how their young players still have to learn consistency and the team as well.  He praised the Girard-Makar pairing but also says they are going to need more time.

 

And remember when you kept saying that they weren’t going to trade Barrie.....Pretty sure I told you he was on the move....

Av’s are a favorite just like the oilers were a few years ago. Doesn’t mean much. Without soderberg, Barrie varlamov and Kerfoot. They are really banking on the free agent signings along Jost and there young D to step up. Because if they don’t. Avs will be taking a step back this year. Heck grubauer has never played more than 40 games in a season. 

 

 

They really now are throwing Makar and Girad into the deep and hoping they swim. As much as sakic can say they need more time. They also need offense to replace Barrie. There other D aren’t capable. 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

I wonder if the Avs throw all of Makar, Girardi and Byram into the lineup in prominent roles next season. That'd be pretty insane to see. After Johnson and Zadarov they aren't exactly swimming in top 4 talent. Hard to even consider Zadorov top 4 with his 17 minutes a game last season. If Bowen Byram isn't on the roster next season their D core is also quite diminutive. Unless Calle Rosen has one hell of a breakout season but even then he isn't exactly super big at 6'1 186 pounds.

 

Future looks very bright for the Avs but I am not sure they are a playoff team this season with that D core and a relatively unproven goaltender. Guy started a career high 37 games last season and his numbers are pretty underwhelming for a starter. Will be interesting to see what they do and how they do. 

[Dannydog]

Alex Kerfoot and Barrie need to be signed for next year? Both on expiring contracts looking for definate increase on previous contracts value?

 

[Gaudette Celly]

8 hours ago, oldnews said:

I'd rather have a Barrie to sell - even as a rental - than a Kadri.   And especially now that Barrie has a ludicrous 2.75 cap hit this year.    Even if the Leafs fell apart and missed the playoffs, while Barrie indicated no intention to return - I'd rather be dealing.renting a Barrie at a trade deadline with a 2.75 cap hit, than a Kadri.

 

Yeah, the way I see it is that even if Barrie is a rental, the Leafs get him for much of the season plus get to move him at the TDL, plus being able to move him to a contender at 50% off, instead of Colorado being able to do the same thing.  For that, they paid the difference between Kadri and Kerfoot, and a 3rd vs a 6th?  That difference is nothing compared to what Barrie will pull at the TDL.  Avs could just as easily have retained at the TDL themselves instead of now, and had Barrie in the lineup until then.

[mll]

18 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

And remember when you kept saying that they weren’t going to trade Barrie.....Pretty sure I told you he was on the move....

Av’s are a favorite just like the oilers were a few years ago. Doesn’t mean much. Without soderberg, Barrie varlamov and Kerfoot. They are really banking on the free agent signings along Jost and there young D to step up. Because if they don’t. Avs will be taking a step back this year. Heck grubauer has never played more than 40 games in a season. 

 

 

They really now are throwing Makar and Girad into the deep and hoping they swim. As much as sakic can say they need more time. They also need offense to replace Barrie. There other D aren’t capable. 

 

 

You did say several times that Makar made Barrie expendable.  I didn't think just yet with Timmins still a question mark and not enough experience to replace what he brings.

 

At the end of the season he said he was going to talk to Barrie about an extension - he must have not liked the numbers and/or the term.  With Johnson and Cole expected to start the season on IR and his comment about using Barrie as their own rental it sounded unlikely that they would move him.  

They were apparently targeting Hayes and must have felt that getting a C was more critical than using Barrie as a rental.

 

It's Kroenke that says they will need more time.  That's why I don't think he sees them in a win now window just yet.  There's too much inexperience and question marks with the changes they made.  

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

And remember when you kept saying that they weren’t going to trade Barrie.....Pretty sure I told you he was on the move....

Av’s are a favorite just like the oilers were a few years ago. Doesn’t mean much. Without soderberg, Barrie varlamov and Kerfoot. They are really banking on the free agent signings along Jost and there young D to step up. Because if they don’t. Avs will be taking a step back this year. Heck grubauer has never played more than 40 games in a season. 

 

 

They really now are throwing Makar and Girad into the deep and hoping they swim. As much as sakic can say they need more time. They also need offense to replace Barrie. There other D aren’t capable. 

 

I would ASSUMED Sakic realized that his initial asking price for a year of Barrie probably made alot of the other GM'S recognized that it is probably better to wait a year rather than overpaying Colorado for Barrie. He blinked and wanted something for Barrie rather than losing him to FA.

[Odjick29willkillyou]

This is why I could NEVER be a GM. I love my wobbly pops a bit too much and although I refrain from drunk posting (for the most part), I love to play my NHL15 (yes I am cheap) game and make crazy trades lol. Art would imitate life and next thing you know, EP40 would be stuck in Ottawa for Borowiecki and a 7th rounder. 

[oldnews]

9 hours ago, Tomatoes11 said:

He would be a huge upgrade on Sutter. 

It's a dumb analogy wadr / not comparables.

 

Sutter is a high end shutdown center -- plays hard minutes all the time -  an actual matchup center - high end penalty killer - great faceoff guy - who is capable of scoring 20 goals counterpunching in that role.  I don't expect you to understand the value of a player like that - I see you believe Megna is a better signing than Jay Beagle, a key piece of a Stanley Cup Championship team - so I'm gonna leave it at that (you would build a horrible bottom six with ideas like that informing it).

 

These guys are not comparables.

 

Kadri scored 30 goals yada yada.  Kadri plays a dfferent role - he may score more, but he's also inferior defensively, and worse, he does intensely stupid things that cost his team dearly - on a regular basis.  It's actuallly sad to watch a guy with that kind of talent fail to get his mental game together.

Kadri may be a 'better' '2nd' line center than Sutter, but Sutter is a better '3rd' line center than Kadri - while Horvat is a miles better '2nd' C than Kadri.

 

And none of this has a whiff to do with the trade the Avs and Leafs made.  Who really cares how Kadri measures up to Sutter?  The thing is what you win with is not always as obvious as glimpsing a bottom line like goal scoring.  You look at the team that ousted Toronto for the 3rd straight season - and it was the guys like Kuraly and Acciari that absolutely killed the Leafs, players that people like you overlook because you assume they are relatively inconsequential depth forwards.

 

[Tomatoes11]

6 minutes ago, oldnews said:

It's a dumb analogy wadr / not comparables.

 

Sutter is a high end shutdown center -- plays hard minutes all the time -  an actual matchup center - high end penalty killer - great faceoff guy - who is capable of scoring 20 goals counterpunching in that role.  I don't expect you to understand the value of a player like that - I see you believe Megna is a better signing than Jay Beagle, a key piece of a Stanley Cup Championship team - so I'm gonna leave it at that (you would build a horrible bottom six with ideas like that informing it).

 

These guys are not comparables.

 

Kadri scored 30 goals yada yada.  Kadri plays a dfferent role - he may score more, but he's also inferior defensively, and worse, he does intensely stupid things that cost his team dearly - on a regular basis.  It's actuallly sad to watch a guy with that kind of talent fail to get his mental game together.

Kadri may be a 'better' '2nd' line center than Sutter, but Sutter is a better '3rd' line center than Kadri - while Horvat is a miles better '2nd' C than Kadri.

 

And none of this has a whiff to do with the trade the Avs and Leafs made.  Who really cares how Kadri measures up to Sutter?  The thing is what you win with is not always as obvious as glimpsing a bottom line like goal scoring.  You look at the team that ousted Toronto for the 3rd straight season - and it was the guys like Kuraly and Acciari that absolutely killed the Leafs, players that people like you overlook because you assume they are relatively inconsequential depth forwards.

 

Lol reading is your friend buddy. My reply was regarding Turris.

 

Not sure why you brought up Kadri but that comparison is even more lopsided. Nice to see you spinning wheels defending another huge Benning whiff in Sutter, but just watch. Kadri is going to embarrass our boy Sutter once we play the AVs this season. Sigh. Lol

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol reading is your friend buddy. My reply was regarding Turris.

 

Not sure why you brought up Kadri but that comparison is even more lopsided. Nice to see you spinning wheels defending another huge Benning whiff in Sutter, but just watch. Kadri is going to embarrass our boy Sutter once we play the AVs this season. Sigh. Lol

Kadri will not match up with Sutter.  Sutter will play against Mac.  Kadri will play against Petey or Bo.  

[jimmyking8888]

  If Sutter put up any points this year, he should be traded before deadline. 

[Tomatoes11]

Just now, Alflives said:

Kadri will not match up with Sutter.  Sutter will play against Mac.  Kadri will play against Petey or Bo.  

Mac would eat him alive. I think greens best tactic would be let ep and bo try to outs ire Mac and rantanen and let our boy Sutter try and shut down kadri and landeskog.

 

Either way, it’s bleak for us but that is probably the least difficult path because we all know Sutter isn’t shutting down Mac lol

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Hutton Wink said:

Yeah, the way I see it is that even if Barrie is a rental, the Leafs get him for much of the season plus get to move him at the TDL, plus being able to move him to a contender at 50% off, instead of Colorado being able to do the same thing.  For that, they paid the difference between Kadri and Kerfoot, and a 3rd vs a 6th?  That difference is nothing compared to what Barrie will pull at the TDL.  Avs could just as easily have retained at the TDL themselves instead of now, and had Barrie in the lineup until then.

yeah - the strange thing is that the Avs are still a very young team in a lot of areas - which is why I find it a bit strange that Sakic would not be more patient with a return.  Evidently he's high on Kadri - but I don't trust his judgement there (any more than I did his decision to keep McKinnon and Duchene while  moving Ryan O'Reilly (and  then subsequently moving Duchene anyway).    Their blueline - as it looks now - has Girard, Makar and Rosen on each of their pairings....McKinnon, Kadri, Compher, Bellemare is pretty good down the middle, but adding Bellemare, a good faceoff/depth center probably would have afforded them the ability to use Soderberg (who they dumped) in a more offensive role - a guy that scored 49 pts last year (with 39% ozone starts - as much upside as Kadri).  I'd have to think that lineup has a better chance of competing with Barrie in the mix as opposed to three kids/rookies - and a Soderberg, than they do moving Barrie to replace Soderberg with a relatively lateral move.  Colorada has some young talented forwards and defensemen in their pipeline - I can see why they'd be willing to move on from Barrie at some point, but they just dealt for a forward he outscores, one that has evident discipline problems - and threw Kerfoot in as well.

 

The Avalanche are going to be damn good regardless, but it's a move I would never even have considered - you have to  think there are better forwards out there that could be taken in a Barrie deal than Nazem Kadri.

[Toyotasfan]

You can easily replace a forward, star defenceman are hard to come by.  Colorado May have filled a hole , but made a bigger hole in the process.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Mac would eat him alive. I think greens best tactic would be let ep and bo try to outs ire Mac and rantanen and let our boy Sutter try and shut down kadri and landeskog.

 

Either way, it’s bleak for us but that is probably the least difficult path because we all know Sutter isn’t shutting down Mac lol

We have our secret weapon - Loui E!  

[oldnews]

25 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol reading is your friend buddy. My reply was regarding Turris.

Turris was literally terrible last year - an upgrade on no one. 

"Lol".

 

Turris is - again - not a Sutter comparable.  It's an even worse 'analogy'.

 

Turris with his 67.6% ozone starts (and 65.3% the previous year), with mediocre 'possession' numbers btw - could not handle Sutter's role, and does not/cannot kill penalties.

Turris is not a '3C' - and this team does not need to 'upgrade' Horvat (wadr, Turris would be a significant downgrade - one that is making 6 million dollars and scored 23 points last year.

 

Knowing what you're talking about is your "friend, buddy".

"Lol".

 

"Kadri is going to embarrez Suttterz" says Tomatoessss!

The only person Kadri embarasses - is himself - with those punk-clown antics of his.

Edited July 2, 2019 by oldnews

[Tomatoes11]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Turris was literally terrible last year - an upgrade on no one. 

"Lol".

 

Turris is - again - not a Sutter comparable.  It's an even worse 'analogy'.

 

Turris with his 67.6% ozone starts (and 65.3% the previous year), with mediocre 'possession' numbers btw - could not handle Sutter's role, and does not/cannot kill penalties.

Turris is not a '3C' - and this team does not need to 'upgrade' Horvat (wadr, Turris would be a significant downgrade - one that is making 6 million dollars and scored 23 points last year.

 

Knowing what you're talking about is your "friend, buddy".

"Lol".

Lol Turris would be much better than Sutter period. Not sure how you argue that. He doesn’t need to fill Sutters role, he just has to score like he did in Ottawa. 

 

Yes he was terrible last year, but that’s the only reason we would be able to get him. Lol otherwise good luck. The last time he was traded his value was duchene, and he is worth much more than our boy Sutter.

 

Tanking Nashville isn’t new. Granlund and Simmonds did too and they are great players. I would love to have either Granlund or Turris replace Sutter and if it happened I know you would be singing a different tune. Not because the performance difference, which I am sure will be plain to see, but because you are an optimist that sees no wrong in any move the Canucks make. Lol

[oldnews]

1 minute ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Lol Lol

[10pavelbure96]

27 minutes ago, oldnews said:

yeah - the strange thing is that the Avs are still a very young team in a lot of areas - which is why I find it a bit strange that Sakic would not be more patient with a return.  Evidently he's high on Kadri - but I don't trust his judgement there (any more than I did his decision to keep McKinnon and Duchene while  moving Ryan O'Reilly (and  then subsequently moving Duchene anyway).    Their blueline - as it looks now - has Girard, Makar and Rosen on each of their pairings....McKinnon, Kadri, Compher, Bellemare is pretty good down the middle, but adding Bellemare, a good faceoff/depth center probably would have afforded them the ability to use Soderberg (who they dumped) in a more offensive role - a guy that scored 49 pts last year (with 39% ozone starts - as much upside as Kadri).  I'd have to think that lineup has a better chance of competing with Barrie in the mix as opposed to three kids/rookies - and a Soderberg, than they do moving Barrie to replace Soderberg with a relatively lateral move.  Colorada has some young talented forwards and defensemen in their pipeline - I can see why they'd be willing to move on from Barrie at some point, but they just dealt for a forward he outscores, one that has evident discipline problems - and threw Kerfoot in as well.

 

The Avalanche are going to be damn good regardless, but it's a move I would never even have considered - you have to  think there are better forwards out there that could be taken in a Barrie deal than Nazem Kadri.

Ya there is, like Bo Horvat.

 

And thank God Benning didnt pull that deal cause that is what was rumored to be what the Avs wanted from us.

 

Obviously Joe is high on Kadri