[Trade] Avalanche trade Tyson Barrie, Alexander Kerfoot, 2020 6th-round pick to Maple Leafs for Nazem Kadri, Calle Rosen, 2020 3rd-round pick

[BPA]

Barrie is UFA next year.  Sees how good Vancouver is so he takes a bit of a discount to go back home. 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

5 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

I imagine Muzzin will most definitely be getting a raise from his $4 million, whether it’s from the Leafs or somebody else. I see him getting at least 6.

I don’t see that. Only 26 D are getting 6 and above. Muzzin while decent isn’t a top 25 D. And he’s a left shot 5 would be the most I see him get. The second tier is players are starting to find them selves having to take less just as gardiner is going to find out, as well as Ferlund. 

[Sean Monahan]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I don’t see that. Only 26 D are getting 6 and above. Muzzin while decent isn’t a top 25 D. And he’s a left shot 5 would be the most I see him get. The second tier is players are starting to find them selves having to take less just as gardiner is going to find out, as well as Ferlund. 

The cap will be going up right after he signs his deal though. Muzzin’s not a Norris candidate but he’s a very legitimate top 2-3 d man. I think he’ll get paid pretty well, certainly more than he’s currently getting. 

[McIlhargey the Lesser]

I am persuaded that this is a win for Colorado for two reasons:

1. Kadri really helps improve Colorado's depth up front which was probably their biggest Achilles heel this past year.  I see him as a dirtier version of a Kesler light.  A guy you'd had to have against you but love to have play with you (if he just would ride that line a little better).  He can drive play, score and agitate.  When he first broke into the league he had an attitude problem, but by all accounts he's really fixed that.  I think it shows he's still teachable.

2. I think there's something about Tyson Barrie we don't know.  Yes, he's going to be a great player in this league for a long time if he wants to be but I just don't think his becoming a UFA at the end of the year is a good reason to move him now.  If he's going to keep getting better (as he should since he's young) his value can just go up throughout the year.  Why not trade him near the deadline?  Unless there's some other issues?  Maybe something in the locker room?  Maybe it's as simple as the Phaneuf/Calgary situation and he has a strong personality that clashes with some of the leaders?

I suppose Joe might think it wouldn't look good for a team that's playoff bound to turn a player into a rental, especially if it's working.  But that doesn't seem like enough to me.

Am I the only one that thinks there's more to this?

[Sean Monahan]

17 minutes ago, McIlhargey the Lesser said:

Why not trade him near the deadline? 

I think you kinda answered this at the end of your post but I think it’s also due to the availability of players. If Kadri is the guy they think they want and he’s available now, you just go ahead and make that deal. Strengthen your team for the whole season. There’s no telling what might be available come March. 

[oldnews]

49 minutes ago, McIlhargey the Lesser said:

I am persuaded that this is a win for Colorado for two reasons:

1. Kadri really helps improve Colorado's depth up front which was probably their biggest Achilles heel this past year.  I see him as a dirtier version of a Kesler light.  A guy you'd had to have against you but love to have play with you (if he just would ride that line a little better).  He can drive play, score and agitate.  When he first broke into the league he had an attitude problem, but by all accounts he's really fixed that.  I think it shows he's still teachable.

2. I think there's something about Tyson Barrie we don't know.  Yes, he's going to be a great player in this league for a long time if he wants to be but I just don't think his becoming a UFA at the end of the year is a good reason to move him now.  If he's going to keep getting better (as he should since he's young) his value can just go up throughout the year.  Why not trade him near the deadline?  Unless there's some other issues?  Maybe something in the locker room?  Maybe it's as simple as the Phaneuf/Calgary situation and he has a strong personality that clashes with some of the leaders?

I suppose Joe might think it wouldn't look good for a team that's playoff bound to turn a player into a rental, especially if it's working.  But that doesn't seem like enough to me.

Am I the only one that thinks there's more to this?

 I don't think either of those things are gounds to call it a 'win' for Colorada.

 

1)  organizational need does not mean you got value for a player - the real question is a relative one, between the pieces that went either way.   Who is the best player in the deal?  What kind of value did each team get, both in terms of their on-ice two way cumulative contributions, and their contract/cap/term value relative to performance?

 

2) If there is something about Barrie we don't know - there are things about Kadri that we do know.  One - a suspension history and two, a history of doing incredibly stupid, costly, undisciplined things - at the worst of times.  I don't think it's a mystery that Kadri is not only a difficult asset to 'manage' - ie how coachable is he? - but also that he's earned a reputation as a cheapshot artist.  If I were going to read into anything 'we don't know' about these players, it would be that Kadri was likely on the block for much worse reasons than Barrie - ie Kadri had worn out his patience with Babcock et al - and despite having reasonable term/cap, while Barrie is expiring and was part of a group that is stinkng rich in talented defensive youth, Kadri seemed like someone Toronto was entirely intent on moving on from.

 

I'm not going to pretend to be a believer that Barrie is a bull market asset - I wasn't particularly interested in acquiring him but I think it's hard to maintain that the Avs got the best asset in this deal, let alone moved the player with the bigger issues - I think the 'win' in those senses go to Toronto - and the cap retention on top of it was just sheer bizarre considering the values involved.  Could Kadri tighten up his discipline, and score 30/30 in Colorado, while Barrie is a relative disappointment in a one-way pond hockey experiment in Toronto, eventually walking, leaving the Leafs with Kerfoot in the end.  Sure that's possible - while it's also possible that Kerfoot turns out to be the better asset than Kadri.

I also think part of this deal will hinge/depend on what Rosen becomes in Colorado.

Edited July 11, 2019 by oldnews

[Generational.EP40]

On 7/1/2019 at 4:01 PM, DeNiro said:

Lol what were people saying about Sakic being a good GM?

 

Bad trade for Colorado if true.

 

Or it’s just that Dubas made a great trade? Lol. I wish people had the same accountability for some of JB’s trades/moves that they give to other GMs when the Leafs find success. You can literally see the prejudice and flip-flopping.

 

 

...as for the trade, god damn Dubas is a legend. How he’s able to pull a trade off like this is remarkable. 1.) he’s not in a position of power 2.) he upgraded his defence 3.) he sheds cap space 4.) improves the overall balance of the team. Incredible that he was able to check all those boxes in one trade while not having to overpay. Barrie becomes their 2nd best dman and a considerable upgrade to help the backend. They legitimately just added a top pairing dman for dirt cheap. People see it as a rental...I wouldn’t be so sure to right off Dubas this Quick. I will definitely be giving him the benefit of the doubt and wouldn’t at all shock me if he was able to lock up Barrie and keep him as part of the plans moving forward. He’s just that good. I miss the days when we had a GM being capable of being so fluent in trades. 

[Gaudette Celly]

This appears to be a trade that needs to be re-evaluated a year from now.  On paper it's a Leaf win, but how will they look without Kadri, and what happens with Barrie at the end of the season?  Could go from a win to a substantial loss, simply buying time for this season.

[Generational.EP40]

23 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

This appears to be a trade that needs to be re-evaluated a year from now.  On paper it's a Leaf win, but how will they look without Kadri, and what happens with Barrie at the end of the season?  Could go from a win to a substantial loss, simply buying time for this season.

 

How? LOL.

 

They get rid of an overpaid 3C when they already have the best 1-2 centre combo in the league. Kerfoot or Spezza fill in and are more than capable of a 3rd line role....and yea, they got that little thing which is a top pair dman which don’t just grow on trees. Kadri’s/3C’s do. Oh, and they shed cap and improved their team balance. 

 

Dunno what more (re?)evaluating needs to be done but ok.

[ShawnAntoski]

Great discussions, but ultimately (in my opinion) the cap and Sakic not wanting to risk losing him for nothing or to an injury is why this trade was done. I cannot confirm this but based on a quick google search the projected rumour was the cap would increase to 83 million but in reality it was far less.

 

The cap, is why many more of these type of trades will continue to happen unless the yearly cap increase continues to outperform player salary.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Sounds like they're trying to sort a deal with Barrie, 8 years 8M. No idea where they're going to get cap space though, must have to move Nylander and one of their other forwards to make it happen...

 

Will be interesting to see if this top-heavy cap style works. It worked well for the Penguins ages ago but not for many other teams. Reilly and Barrie are brilliant PMD but come playoff time they're nowhere near strong and gritty enough to contend with big strong forwards. We just watched the Bruins and Blues defences bully other forwards and Toronto is not going to be able to do that. Defence beats a good offence, especially on defence, and if their future direction is Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Reilly and Barrie (at around 50M all up) then good luck defending.

[48MPHSlapShot]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:05 AM, Generational.EP40 said:

 

How? LOL.

 

They get rid of an overpaid 3C when they already have the best 1-2 centre combo in the league. Kerfoot or Spezza fill in and are more than capable of a 3rd line role....and yea, they got that little thing which is a top pair dman which don’t just grow on trees. Kadri’s/3C’s do. Oh, and they shed cap and improved their team balance. 

 

Dunno what more (re?)evaluating needs to be done but ok.

I think whether or not Barrie resigns with the Laffs is kinda significant. 

[filthycanuck]

On 7/11/2019 at 1:48 PM, McIlhargey the Lesser said:

I am persuaded that this is a win for Colorado for two reasons:

1. Kadri really helps improve Colorado's depth up front which was probably their biggest Achilles heel this past year.  I see him as a dirtier version of a Kesler light.  A guy you'd had to have against you but love to have play with you (if he just would ride that line a little better).  He can drive play, score and agitate.  When he first broke into the league he had an attitude problem, but by all accounts he's really fixed that.  I think it shows he's still teachable.

2. I think there's something about Tyson Barrie we don't know.  Yes, he's going to be a great player in this league for a long time if he wants to be but I just don't think his becoming a UFA at the end of the year is a good reason to move him now.  If he's going to keep getting better (as he should since he's young) his value can just go up throughout the year.  Why not trade him near the deadline?  Unless there's some other issues?  Maybe something in the locker room?  Maybe it's as simple as the Phaneuf/Calgary situation and he has a strong personality that clashes with some of the leaders?

I suppose Joe might think it wouldn't look good for a team that's playoff bound to turn a player into a rental, especially if it's working.  But that doesn't seem like enough to me.

Am I the only one that thinks there's more to this?

In the immediate short term, Leafs win, but long term, the Avalanche. Barrie is almost guaranteed to be a one-year rental player. Of course if the Leafs win the cup *barf , then obviously its a win regardless.

 

Long term, Colorado . Kadri can provide secondary scoring and like you said, grit and be that jerk which is gonna be useful in the playoffs. What tips the scales long term is Rossen, who I think can play in the bigs. Rossen wont get a lot of points but might be able to muster double digit goals as a PP2 guy if the Avs play him there. System wise, he is a fit for how Colorado plays