2019-20 Utica Comets Thread

[Rick Blight]

• Lineups

1st Period

1 - 2

00:23

 

Perron F.
Rafferty B. + Brisebois G.

00:56

 

Seney B.

10:57

 

(Powerplay)Goldobin N.
Rafferty B.

2nd Period

2 - 1

05:16

 

Seney B.
Anderson J.

07:45

 

Conner C.

11:16

 

Arseneau V.
Bancks C. + Camper C.

3rd Period

1 - 1

04:14

 

Bancks C.
Blujus D. + Stevenson D.

15:34

 

Baddock B.
McLeod M. + Melchiori J.

Overtime

1 - 0

04:29

 

Sharangovich Y.
Schmelzer R. + Mermis D.

[TomatoPieFan]

 

[TomatoPieFan]

 

[TomatoPieFan]

I'm not an X's and O's expert, just a season ticket holder and armchair GM but IMO this is one of the worst defensive showings in all seasons for the Comets.  The highlights do not show what led up to the Devils goals but 3 goals are directly attributable to the Comets D having the opportunity to clear the zone with a flip of the puck into neutral ice but no...they sit on it, dicking around, the forecheck then forces a turnover that leads to goals.  This has been a trend in the last few games and harkens back to Travis Green teams that also had a propensity to not be able to clear the zone.  I understand wanting to have a controlled breakout but it was so obvious the Devils were pushing the forecheck all night and the heat was on immediately.  Comets scored :23 seconds into the game and promptly gave up a goal :56 seconds into the game.  The D did kill an extended 5 on 3.  Chatfield was standout awful with Rafferty honorable mention even though he had two primary assists.  On the positive, the offense played very well during regulation and you should win a 4 goal game that included two solid hits on the crossbar and a couple highlight real saves for the Devils goalie.  The OT offense stunk up the place and could not get out of their own way.  This was sellout game 180.  The boys have a quick practice today and hit the bus for a two game stint in Laval this weekend.  Go Comets!

Edited November 21, 2019 by TomatoPieFan
spelling

[dpn1]

Best players for the Comets last night were Mikie and Lind.  I think Lind is going to become our best pest ever. 

[GoldenAlien]

15 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

The bolded is where you're still missing my point. The main benefit of signing a Groavac level player is having flexibility when injuries hit in terms of call ups. You've made it clear that you don't think this is important, but there's a reason why one of Benning's main goals was to acquire sufficient depth at every position. He talked about how beneficial it would be to be able to call up Baertschi for an injury in the top 6. He has acquired depth for the most part, just not at center. 

 

There's no way a signing at this level would make any significant change on our Playoff chances. There's no way a signing at this level would be the difference between a prospect turning into Motte or Arvidsson. 

Depth and flexibility are just buzzwords that mean nothing unless they help a team win.  A team with five Graovacs is deeper than one with only three, but the first team is not any better than the second.  The only goals in the NHL is to either make the playoffs and get as far as you can, or build for the future.  Everything else is a means to an end.  If depth helps you win, then that's helpful depth.  Guys like Baertschi and Goldobin can be important because they're NHL-caliber players.  It's entirely plausible that they can replace someone in our lineup and perform just as well, or even better.  Say Ferland and Pearson go down, and we fill in with Baertschi and Goldobin.  Obviously these guys have different skillsets, but both could make up for the lost production. If we have to go with Miller - Baertschi - Goldobin instead of Miller - Pearson - Ferland down our top 3 LW, we could still make the playoffs.  So this depth is important because it augments our playoff chances, it allows us to be in the race even if we have a couple injuries.

 

Graovac, on the other hand, is an obvious downgrade on any centre on our roster.  There is no way that the Canucks are making the playoffs if the bottom three lines are centred by Gaudette - Graovac - Graovac.  How is that lineup going to get any further than Gaudette - Graovac - Schaller, which is what would currently happen?  If it can't, then it's not useful depth.  It doesn't help us make the playoffs even if we have injuries.   

 

It's important to have depth that helps you win.  It's not important to have depth that just gives you names to fill in on a chart.  There's no sense in wanting the appearance of depth -- that's just optics.  It's confounding in general that anyone cares about moves (or lack thereof) that have zero impact on Canucks' current or future prospects.  Why does this matter at all, if you agree it doesn't change our playoff hopes or prospect pool?  I suppose my overall point, is that Graovac just makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.  The Canucks don't have more of him simply because the team doesn't need more of him. 

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, TomatoPieFan said:

I'm not an X's and O's expert, just a season ticket holder and armchair GM but IMO this is one of the worst defensive showings in all seasons for the Comets.  The highlights do not show what led up to the Devils goals but 3 goals are directly attributable to the Comets D having the opportunity to clear the zone with a flip of the puck into neutral ice but no...they sit on it, dicking around, the forecheck then forces a turnover that leads to goals.  This has been a trend in the last few games and harkens back to Travis Green teams that also had a propensity to not be able to clear the zone.  I understand wanting to have a controlled breakout but it was so obvious the Devils were pushing the forecheck all night and the heat was on immediately.  Comets scored :23 seconds into the game and promptly gave up a goal :56 seconds into the game.  The D did kill an extended 5 on 3.  Chatfield was standout awful with Rafferty honorable mention even though he had two primary assists.  On the positive, the offense played very well during regulation and you should win a 4 goal game that included two solid hits on the crossbar and a couple highlight real saves for the Devils goalie.  The OT offense stunk up the place and could not get out of their own way.  This was sellout game 180.  The boys have a quick practice today and hit the bus for a two game stint in Laval this weekend.  Go Comets!

So they try controlled exits and it doesn't work that well, it's on Green's systems. If they dump it out and chase and it doesn't work well, then it's on Green's systems. God forbid Utica tries the drop pass, Brown is going to get an earful.

 

I respect your views, but let's not make this about Green and systems. The Devils worked hard and pulled out a narrow win (on the scoreboard). They likely are trying different things and sometimes they don't work or need tweaking or they simply face a team up to the task of playing a tough road game.

[UticaHockey]

Graovac scores a goal and the Canucks finally win a game.  Funny how that depth thing works.

[Kootenay Gold]

Game against Laval should be interesting. Evan McEneny just signed a PTO with Laval. Was wondering what ever became of him and also if he still has the ability to play at this level or beyond because of all the serious injuries he has had.

 

[GoldenAlien]

35 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Graovac scores a goal and the Canucks finally win a game.  Funny how that depth thing works.

Yes, the Canucks won 6-3 because of Tyler Graovac, who didn't even play centre.  If he wasn't already called up that winger spot could've easily gone to say, Bailey. 

 

You're reaching.  Please show some evidence that a second Graovac would have a real, tangible impact on the Canucks' playoffs hopes this season or in the future, if you're going to keep harping on this subject. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by GoldenAlien

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

Yes, the Canucks won 6-3 because of Tyler Graovac, who didn't even play centre.  If he wasn't already called up that winger spot could've easily gone to say, Bailey. 

 

You're reaching.  Please show some evidence that a second Graovac would have a real, tangible impact on the Canucks' playoffs hopes this season or in the future, if you're going to keep harping on this subject. 

Graovac is s big body, who plays heavy, and has skill.  These kinds of players make it harder on the other team to move freeing around the ice.  So, yes having more of these big boys does help us win.  

[GoldenAlien]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Graovac is s big body, who plays heavy, and has skill.  These kinds of players make it harder on the other team to move freeing around the ice.  So, yes having more of these big boys does help us win.  

You'd have have to go back a couple pages but that was not the point.  UticaHockey's gripe is that Vancouver did not sign a second AHL centre.  He's implying that the "depth" that Graovac provided at centre helped the Canucks win the game, when in reality the guy played on RW.  If he wasn't already with the team, Bailey, another big body, could've easily gotten the call, seeing as he's a natural winger.  If the Canucks did have a second AHL centre, it wouldn't make a difference in this game considering we already had four NHL ones.

[Captain Canuck #12]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Graovac is s big body, who plays heavy, and has skill.  These kinds of players make it harder on the other team to move freeing around the ice.  So, yes having more of these big boys does help us win.  

He's a big body, but I didn't think he played a particularly heavy game tonight.  I though he looked more like a gentle giant.  I hope I'm wrong about him, but I'm questioning if he actually has the mental makeup that a 4th liner his size needs to play the heavy, physical game that he should be playing.  If not, I vote for giving Bailey a try.  At least until Roussel, Motte and/or Ferland gets back.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Captain Canuck #12

[86Viking]

5 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

He's a big body, but I didn't think he played a particularly heavy game tonight.  I though he looked more like a gentle giant.  I hope I'm wrong about him, but I'm questioning if he actually has the mental makeup that a 4th liner his size needs to play the heavy, physical game that he should be playing.  If not, I vote for giving Bailey a try.  At least until Roussel, Motte and/or Ferland gets back.

Graovac and MacEwen both have size, but in my opinion play way too soft and because of that at best they will be fill in call ups. You need to play a heavy game, that means hitting every opposition player you can, force the turnovers. D don't like getting hit, but neither of these guys will consistantly bring that to their game from what I can see so they are bound for long AHL or Euro careers

[Ghostsof1915]

On 11/20/2019 at 8:38 AM, UticaHockey said:

Over an entire 82 game schedule yes I do believe that one center in the AHL on a NHL contract is not sufficient depth.  Just looking at the injury history of this organization over the past few years should answer that question alone.  Here are the basic facts regarding depth at that position and it is only mid-November.

 

Tyler Graovac was the only true center assigned to Utica at the start of the season available for call up and he was injured in the Comets season opener which resulted in him missing the next 4 weeks before returning on November 2.  The Canucks with so much NHL center depth that they have two centers playing wing suddenly find themselves eleven days later not only needing to call up their only center in the AHL but immediately inserting him into the line up.  Again I ask is it a good idea to start a season with only one true center under contract in the AHL available for call up?

 

I did read all of the "a lot of words" that GoldenAlien posted and it just appeared to me as rationalization for the lack of center depth and more obsession that some Canucks fans have with the Leafs.  

To be honest the Canucks need to spend some later round picks on defence and centres. If anything to help develop and have players in the AHL. 

But as for defence. Juolevi's mystery injury, and lack of info on it, or even recovery time looks serious.  If he has to be shut down for they year and they try again next year so be it. Unless it's something the doctors are finding difficulty in nailing down. (Which would also be worrying)

Help for the defence is on the way. You've got Jett Woo next year. Rathbone is a maybe Utunen is a possibility too. Not to mention some forwards in the pipeline.

Carson Focht should be in Utica next year. Along with Keppen, and  Lockwood. 

 

The Canucks are going to have either pare down some of its contracts. If the Canucks don't sign Tanev, Leivo, Schaller and Fantenberg that's $5 million saved right there. 

The big issue will be Markstrom. Then do they qualify Stecher? Virtanen, MacEwen and Gaudette will be RFA's so they will be looking for raises. 

 

One hopes that the good production numbers of Goldobin in Utica will prompt a team to make a trade. 

 

[Captain Canuck #12]

5 hours ago, Canuckster86 said:

Graovac and MacEwen both have size, but in my opinion play way too soft and because of that at best they will be fill in call ups. You need to play a heavy game, that means hitting every opposition player you can, force the turnovers. D don't like getting hit, but neither of these guys will consistantly bring that to their game from what I can see so they are bound for long AHL or Euro careers

You just said what I was thinking about MacEwan too, but wasn't ready to  say out loud yet.  I completely agree with what you're saying about big guys who play a small man's game in the NHL.  I call it Darren Archibald-itis.

[reyezone]

On 11/21/2019 at 11:31 AM, dpn1 said:

Best players for the Comets last night were Mikie and Lind.  I think Lind is going to become our best pest ever. 

I see this potential in Lind also.

A very rare mix of skill and pest DNA.

[86Viking]

9 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

You just said what I was thinking about MacEwan too, but wasn't ready to  say out loud yet.  I completely agree with what you're saying about big guys who play a small man's game in the NHL.  I call it Darren Archibald-itis.

Grenier fits that mold too

[Boudrias]

19 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

You just said what I was thinking about MacEwan too, but wasn't ready to  say out loud yet.  I completely agree with what you're saying about big guys who play a small man's game in the NHL.  I call it Darren Archibald-itis.

Big players like MacEwan are expected to play a physical game but I expect the overriding concern when called up is to not cost your team. Being physical runs the risk of being caught out of position and maybe costing the team. IMHO a player line BigMac has to have 5-10 games to get his feel for the pace of the NHL. Then he can take more calculated risks. He is in the same scenario as Virtanen.  

[theo5789]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:37 AM, Captain Canuck #12 said:

You just said what I was thinking about MacEwan too, but wasn't ready to  say out loud yet.  I completely agree with what you're saying about big guys who play a small man's game in the NHL.  I call it Darren Archibald-itis.

In 2017-2018, Archie had 3 hits per game, only behind Motte's 3.1 hits per game in his 15 game stint. He added a couple of fighting majors. I don't think Archibald is a good example of what you're trying to suggest.

 

Graovac has never been a physical guy and just because a guy is big, it doesn't mean they have to hit everything in sight to be effective. He's a centerman, so he needs to be responsible at both ends and not be thrown out of position throwing hits all the time. With that said, there's a reason why he's a 26 year old call up level player.

 

MacEwen on the other hand seems to be a more physical type of player. But he too isn't going to try take himself out of position and make a costly error. It's a tough decision on whether to play that reckless game that could be effective, but could cause lots of mistakes or play a more cautious game and risk not standing out. I think once he gets more comfortable, then we will see him play a more impactful role. Hopefully he gets a decent stretch at some point to show this.